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Old 2008-09-01, 22:58   Link #181
golthin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post

She is bad news for Izumida. She is also a victim of her own making and I have no sympathy for her. She needs to date an "uptown" guy and leave the "downtown" guy alone.
Well, who said that love is rational! I am waiting for the episode where she has to go to a Marriege interview arranged by her father and she is hoping for Izumida to be opposed to it but he actually encourages her to go thus breaking her heart!
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Old 2008-09-01, 23:08   Link #182
orion
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Well, she is an upper level police officer. At this point, I'd doubt that her father would do something like that. If there was a marriage arrangement outside of the family business, then they would be looking at exchanging company stock with the other family's company.
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Old 2008-09-01, 23:34   Link #183
golthin
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
Well, she is an upper level police officer. At this point, I'd doubt that her father would do something like that. If there was a marriage arrangement outside of the family business, then they would be looking at exchanging company stock with the other family's company.
it is anime! Her job as a police officer is a hobby for her as she doesn't really need to do it.
Parents can very demanding about having a heir for the future!
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Old 2008-09-01, 23:57   Link #184
kujoe
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
She needs to date an "uptown" guy and leave the "downtown" guy alone.
Wait, what?

Is there some written rule that I'm missing here?
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Old 2008-09-02, 15:14   Link #185
Duality
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Originally Posted by golthin View Post
Well, who said that love is rational! I am waiting for the episode where she has to go to a Marriege interview arranged by her father and she is hoping for Izumida to be opposed to it but he actually encourages her to go thus breaking her heart!
You've been watching too much Special A


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Originally Posted by orion View Post
I agree in part. Her problem is that she wants it both ways and it won't be happening nor should it.

a. She wants him to be her servant. She demeans him in a way no superior is suppose to. It's actually sexual harrassment. It's a part of her power trip that she's playing with others. Kind of reflected in her dream. Russian revolution leader says "Follow me." and enjoys all the attention that they are giving her. Izumida in the background not paying attention because he knows better.

b. She wants him to be her lover. This actually is in conflict with (a) as she is on her power trip. Being a lover means both partners are on equal standing. Understandably, Izumida can not go down this route as he isn't being treated as an equal. I think that she would be the type that would tire of him pretty fast and dispose of him like yesterday's newspaper. If he would have a relationship with her, it would be more like the master of the house having an affair with the maid.

She is bad news for Izumida. She is also a victim of her own making and I have no sympathy for her. She needs to date an "uptown" guy and leave the "downtown" guy alone.
The next few episodes are going to be interesting because I suspect that he's going to show more of an overt spine. Her reaction to that will sort of dictate how things progress. If he doesn't begin to show more will, it's going to become fairly uninteresting fairly quickly because any relationship between them will be a dead end.

You are correct, that currently for her it seems more like her interest in him is fueled by the "challenge" that his apparent lack of interest in her creates and by the fact that she's just a control freak who loves power. Of course, since she treats EVERYONE that way, she's not going to be dating any "uptown" guys. ANY relationship she has will have to be with someone who's just as egocentric as she is or who is self-assured enough (but not necessarily self-centered like she is) to be able to stand up for themselves.

Izumida might fit into the second category, since he doesn't seem overly plagued by self doubts, (and is very good at the things he does) he just has to learn to express his opinions without automatically slipping back into the "she's the boss" mode.


On a side note, I think we should have a poll about which is the most absurd/non-sensical background plot. I'm undecided between the giant salamander that wanted her to flood the secret government amusement park and the reptile baby..... Such a hard choice....
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Old 2008-09-02, 17:57   Link #186
Ninjacat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
b. She wants him to be her lover. This actually is in conflict with (a) as she is on her power trip. Being a lover means both partners are on equal standing. Understandably, Izumida can not go down this route as he isn't being treated as an equal. I think that she would be the type that would tire of him pretty fast and dispose of him like yesterday's newspaper. If he would have a relationship with her, it would be more like the master of the house having an affair with the maid.

She is bad news for Izumida. She is also a victim of her own making and I have no sympathy for her. She needs to date an "uptown" guy and leave the "downtown" guy alone.
I'm pretty sure that's exactly how Izumida sees it.

Ryoko, however, seems to have invested much more than she wants to admit into that relationship. You don't commit suicide because the maid treathens to quit, not even in Japan. Problem is she's got no idea about how a normal relationship is supposed to work. I suspect a lousy upbringing.

It's obvious she grew up in a world where everything had a price, everything was shaped by power and influence. And this became especially true in her professional life. She's apparently mastered the power game early, she has everything she could possibly want. Everything is peachy except it's a rather empty way of life.

And then, here comes Izumida, brave, loyal, honest, solid Izumida. He can't be bought, he loves simple things, he may not be a genius but he's definitely smart enough to hold his own with her. To Ryoko he's everything she ever wanted; someone she trusts, someone she can admire, someone who would stand by her through anything.

But she can't get herself to just tell him that. That would be showing a huge gap in her armor, vulnerability, a weakness to exploit. It goes against every survival instinct she was taught. So she goes back to the tool she knows, power. She makes him her servant so he can't leave her. Quite pathetic on Ryoko's part, but it's quite obvious she's not the most mature member on the police force.
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Old 2008-09-02, 18:18   Link #187
golthin
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Originally Posted by Duality View Post
You've been watching too much Special A
the marriage interview plot is not only from special A! It is a plot used a lot! instead of having a direct rival which actually takes a lot of development, the marriage interview plot is an easy way to motivate the other party to do something.
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Old 2008-09-02, 19:36   Link #188
kujoe
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Originally Posted by Ninjacat View Post
I'm pretty sure that's exactly how Izumida sees it.

Ryoko, however, seems to have invested much more than she wants to admit into that relationship. You don't commit suicide because the maid treathens to quit, not even in Japan. Problem is she's got no idea about how a normal relationship is supposed to work. I suspect a lousy upbringing.

It's obvious she grew up in a world where everything had a price, everything was shaped by power and influence. And this became especially true in her professional life. She's apparently mastered the power game early, she has everything she could possibly want. Everything is peachy except it's a rather empty way of life.

And then, here comes Izumida, brave, loyal, honest, solid Izumida. He can't be bought, he loves simple things, he may not be a genius but he's definitely smart enough to hold his own with her. To Ryoko he's everything she ever wanted; someone she trusts, someone she can admire, someone who would stand by her through anything.

But she can't get herself to just tell him that. That would be showing a huge gap in her armor, vulnerability, a weakness to exploit. It goes against every survival instinct she was taught. So she goes back to the tool she knows, power. She makes him her servant so he can't leave her. Quite pathetic on Ryoko's part, but it's quite obvious she's not the most mature member on the police force.
That's quite close, I think.

I say "close," because Izumida really thinks that she's just playing around. Hence, I doubt that whatever insight he has about her has reached this level.

On Ryoko's side on the other hand, this seems to be her main problem indeed. She can't be honest about herself, so she plays these games, hoping that Izumida will catch the hint someday. But Izumida has his own preconceptions about her, not to mention is also quite dense, to ever see her in such a light.

Seeing that Izumida is the dense one, I think it's up to Ryoko to make things clearer if she wants to have a chance of moving on from this master/servant phase. She's still quite the assertive one, so even if they do get together (and with Izumida being the simple, reliable kind of guy) I can still see her becoming the dominant one in the relationship. They seem to jive together that way. Frankly, I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Old 2008-09-02, 20:54   Link #189
orion
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I wouldn't call him dense. Just more professional. You shouldn't be hitting on your underlings. Office romances are usually not a good thing for job morale. It's also a power thing that shouldn't be introduced into a relationship.

This again goes back to her power issue. She won't get into trouble for having an office fling if a controversy happens because of her family and all the dirt she has on everyone. It would be hell to pay for Izumida if he gets caught.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kujoe View Post
Wait, what?

Is there some written rule that I'm missing here?
Yep, one of the little life lessons that she hasn't learned yet and her family forgot to teach her. You rarely have problems with insecure twits or your insecurity when the family gets involved if you date/marry a person of similar standing.
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Old 2008-09-02, 21:17   Link #190
Ninjacat
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
I wouldn't call him dense. Just more professional. You shouldn't be hitting on your underlings. Office romances are usually not a good thing for job morale. It's also a power thing that shouldn't be introduced into a relationship.

This again goes back to her power issue. She won't get into trouble for having an office fling if a controversy happens because of her family and all the dirt she has on everyone. It would be hell to pay for Izumida if he gets caught.
Izumida in this case being under Ryoko's protection, I'm certain there would be ZERO consequences. Ryoko basically owns the precinct.

I do agree Ryoko should let Izumida transfer if they were to hook up. Though I'm certain she wouldn't.

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Originally Posted by orion View Post
Yep, one of the little life lessons that she hasn't learned yet and her family forgot to teach her. You rarely have problems with insecure twits or your insecurity when the family gets involved if you date/marry a person of similar standing.
Indeed, though in Ryoko's case it's a little different. She needs a guy who can perform an exorcism one day and deal with killbots the next while making her feel nice and secure.

Her tastes are quite specific.
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Old 2008-09-02, 21:28   Link #191
kujoe
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
Yep, one of the little life lessons that she hasn't learned yet and her family forgot to teach her. You rarely have problems with insecure twits or your insecurity when the family gets involved if you date/marry a person of similar standing.
Oh really? Thanks for the love advice.

But seriously, Ryoko follows her own rules and last time I checked, Ryoko's family will hardly give a damn considering her father has his fair share of lovers. Whatever insecurity or fears she may have regarding Izumida have hardly to do with social standing per se. Ninjacat is also right. Izumida is indeed under Ryoko's protection. In fact, in one episode, she was playing with the press in hopes of a "scandal."

And yes, Izumida is quite dense. That's one of the reasons why his ex-girlfriend broke up with him. His professionalism just further underpins that.
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Old 2008-09-03, 01:02   Link #192
Ninjacat
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If Izumida was any denser, he'd colapse unto himself and become a black hole.
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Old 2008-09-03, 04:26   Link #193
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I don't think Izumida is dense. Wasn't it like the first episode narrative from him going on about all her good points then clearly stating she has a horrible personality ? I don't think he would allow himself to get roped into a relationship with the person that drives him crazy at work all day, I know I wouldn't (no matter how smexy she is)
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Old 2008-09-03, 05:13   Link #194
kujoe
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Apparently, he's only dense when it comes to his love life. Other than that, he's quite the sharp person, having closed cases in his younger days before he even met Ryoko.

A novel reader in this thread expounded on that before, so I only can see a general view of this topic.
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Old 2008-09-03, 19:08   Link #195
orion
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That's not considered dense. It's considered smart. Ryoko is not what you'd call a "nice" catch. She's flashy, selfish, and manipulating. She is not the sort that you'd come home to at night or have kids with. She's more like your one night stand that you would move far away from afterwards.

The type that you'd give a phone number to and then disconnect it after the relationship was over. Never invite to your home....
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Old 2008-09-03, 19:53   Link #196
kujoe
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
That's not considered dense. It's considered smart. Ryoko is not what you'd call a "nice" catch. She's flashy, selfish, and manipulating. She is not the sort that you'd come home to at night or have kids with. She's more like your one night stand that you would move far away from afterwards.
You misunderstand.

It's not that Izumida has no views regarding who Ryoko is at all, misconstrued or otherwise, but rather he doesn't notice when practically everybody else has figured it out that Ryoko is interested in him. Even Yukiko has caught on.

As for Ryoko not being a nice catch, that's your opinion. Whatever... She can be a difficult person to be with sometimes, but you just seem to hate her character types anyway.
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Old 2008-09-03, 20:50   Link #197
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You misunderstand.

It's not that Izumida has no views regarding who Ryoko is at all, misconstrued or otherwise, but rather he doesn't notice when practically everybody else has figured it out that Ryoko is interested in him. Even Yukiko has caught on.

As for Ryoko not being a nice catch, that's your opinion. Whatever... She can be a difficult person to be with sometimes, but you just seem to hate her character types anyway.
It's come up a couple times at least in the series so far, I wasn't exactly keeping score or anything so I can't give an exact number. He certainly notices when she's being flirty with him, he usually responds with things like an exasperated sigh or a request for her to stop teasing him and whatnot. There's a difference between being oblivious and not being interested.
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Old 2008-09-03, 21:07   Link #198
kujoe
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Not exactly. At the end of the day, he always concludes that Ryoko is just joking around.

The scene I was referring to apparently occurs in the novel, when Ryoko is asked what type of man she's interested in. She practically gives a description that totally fits Izumida to the extent that everybody begins staring at him, and yet Izumida still doesn't get it. Instead, he says to himself: "Good luck to that guy... Oh wait, why is everyone looking at me?"
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Old 2008-09-03, 21:32   Link #199
orion
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As for Ryoko not being a nice catch, that's your opinion. Whatever... She can be a difficult person to be with sometimes, but you just seem to hate her character types anyway.
I don't hate them. That type is in reality not "nice catch".

Powerful women are what some guys fantasize about but this one does not have her act together. So in the end, she isn't really all that. Her "fall" if we get to see it would be very interesting to watch.
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Old 2008-09-03, 21:59   Link #200
kujoe
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Really? You sure want to see her fall, don't you?

Using words like "her fall" and all that, I can't help but think that there's a tinge of resentment in your comments. It doesn't help that your bias lies too much with all things moe (the usual kind), something which this series has thankfully avoided so far. Well, ok... it still has a couple of French maids.
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