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View Poll Results: Potential Pairing - Multiple Choice Option
Alto x VF 171 32 12.31%
Ozma x Bobby 13 5.00%
Ranka x Sheryl 42 16.15%
Sheryl x Alto 199 76.54%
Yasaburo x Alto 5 1.92%
Ranka x Ai-kun 38 14.62%
Alto x Klan 14 5.38%
Ranka x Alto 54 20.77%
Ranka x Brera 37 14.23%
Klan x Michael 101 38.85%
Ozma x Cathy 111 42.69%
Luca x Nanase 41 15.77%
Wilder x Monica 41 15.77%
Alto x VF25 37 14.23%
Yasaburo x Alto's father 10 3.85%
Alto x Brera 18 6.92%
Grace x Ranka 12 4.62%
Nanase x Ranka 21 8.08%
Sheryl x Klan 24 9.23%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 260. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-09-04, 10:05   Link #1861
ippus
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@solothurn: That's only because you're mistaking what I am saying;;;

I never said that her role as the main lead (not sole lead) is going to give her the best resolution to the story. In fact I'm quite sure I repeatedly said that it never gives her direct reasoning to win the triangle battle simple because it's a kawamori show. My belief that she would win is a nagging feeling at the back of my mind, and has nothing to do with facts.

It's just ippie senses tingling, it deserves to be ignored.

I never claimed that she is the best character nor the most likable. All I am doing is disputing against the people who blindly deny her position as the anime's MVP just because they favour another, and as I have mentioned already, the publicity releases couldn't label ranka as the sole lead lady without getting in the way of the point of the anime- which is its romance. It would have resulted in confusion, it would also give kawamori absolutely no chance to get get Sheryl a possible candidate to Alto's affections because it would be downright strange, 'cuz labeling instantly minorizes everyone else, and makes Ranka the only possible person to win in this game (which would kill the point of this sort of tuggawar triangle).

Yet by the role Ranka is playing at the heart of the STORY, she s playing the traditional lead heroine role. She is the one that's central, not Sheryl nor Alto, but Ranka.

So, Summary before I get mistaken again:
Ranka = traditional lead heroine position.
IS NOT the best character, DOES NOT have to win the best resolution because it is Kawamori, IS NOT the most likable character.
CANNOT be labeled so in publicity articles without ruining the point of story.


CAN'T WAIT FOR MORE SHERYL;;;;
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Old 2008-09-04, 10:12   Link #1862
BetoJR
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Well, ippus, we'll just have to agree to disagree, here. I don't concur with your conclusion about who is or isn't the MVP in the series, so, I'll just stay my course, for now.

Anyway, we both can't wait for more Sheryl, tho.
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Old 2008-09-04, 10:31   Link #1863
sekidousai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solothurn
PS. Only a few more hours before the next ep!
If you live in japan ( T_T) and speak japanese that would be good news...,,, otherwise it would be another long excruciating wait for the subs and avoiding spoilerfests.
------------------------------------------------

Well as far as Ranka vs Sheryl goes, I really have no bias between the two. Because if i did i wouldn't be able to enjoy the series. Sheryl is Sheryl, Ranka is Ranka, That's how Kawamori made them and i love them both. I don't tend to think negatively against the two as it could cloud my perception for the whole series. I don't really care if Ranka is the most spoiled crybaby in the world and even if she is really Kawamori's little girl, also i don't see any Sheryl neglect even if there was im not one that harbours bad feelings for a character (in most anime shows i tend to like secondary characters more than the mains.), after all she would'nt have a lotta rabid fans if it were the case.

Well two girls enter one girl leaves that is the rule of thunder~~ errr... love. no hard feelings.

Guess i better rest for now i'm starting to get brain cramps again and starting to type broken words.

Last edited by sekidousai; 2008-09-04 at 10:49. Reason: the edit button is a miracle of mankind
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Old 2008-09-04, 10:47   Link #1864
ippus
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Haha.
I despise Ranka XD I really do.
I didn't feel so disturbed by her at first but as the series progressed I just couldn't stand her at all.

I think i've mentioned this somewhere but after going to the summer Hong Kong anime conventions and sitting on the artist alley looking at Ranka posters and cosplayers walk by, I've started involuntarily twitching at the sight of green wigs. YES IT'S THAT BAD XD

But even still, on a completely anime structural point of view, I'd see Ranka as the main heroine :/

Also, who cares about subs? Much of the actual storyline is crap anyway :'D *shot*
Lately I've started just watching the raws...I found it was surprisingly easy to understand. Esp. when she pulled a Kamina on us seeing as a friend of mine wouldn't stop blasting that phrase to me over and over again X'D
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Old 2008-09-04, 10:56   Link #1865
solothurn
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Took the words outta my mouth, Beto. I'm out. *hands up*


@sekidousai:

I watch the raw. Usually only guided by my limited Japanese listening skills and interpretation of events.
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Old 2008-09-04, 11:07   Link #1866
Wesley84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
It's statements like this that makes everyone think you're a troll. It's far more likely that Sheryl sang because she wanted to comfort everyone with the power of music; which is apparently like the most powerful thing in the Macross-verse.
Captive audience. And hey, presumably Sheryl was the one who bandaged up Nanase. First rate EMT work right there. Who'd have thought it was in her?

Quote:
So ranka was a weak minded fop who had no idea what she was doing? I totally agree with you on that point.
Wouldn't say she was weakminded, although she is a bit delusional. Her crush on Alto is/was a perfect example of that.

Quote:
Really? Cause it sure seemed to me that she wanted to go into singing. No one forced her to go into singing, they merely encouraged her to do what she wanted ;except Nanase but I assume Nanase being Rankas closet lesbian stalker/best friend, she knows what Ranka wants. Heck, she even disregards Ozmas reluctance to let her go into singing. Sounds like she knows what she wants and goes for it.
She was pissed at Ozma for lying to her about flying, so he had very little credibility at that point. And it was Sheryl who asked her if she wanted to seriously get into singing. Who's going to say no to what is hyped up to be some huge oppurtunity? Ranka would never have gotten into it if Sheryl didn't look down on Ranka and bury her in fortune cookies.

Quote:
There is no evidence that Ranka even realises that her singing attracts the Vajra. She knows she has the power to affect them and make them easier to kill (Ranka, the super bard of doom!) but there's no real proof the Vajra are only attracted to her. They did attack Galaxy (though for unknown reasons) and presumably the fleet that Ranka was on before that.
They didn't attack Galaxy and Galaxy lured them to Frontier somehow. Ranka does know her singing attracts them because....they were attracted to her singing from Island 3.

Quote:
Somehow, I doubt Alto has trouble rejecting females -_- Especially for fear of looking 'gay' as you put it. Perhaps because he spent a lot of time being mistaken as a female and acting as a female when he was younger. But yeah, weak argument. Alto would have easily told Sheryl to bugger off, but he didn't not because he was afraid of being gay but because he didn't want to. Keep in mind this is the same Alto who basically told Sheryl off in episode 1.
Alto's self-righteous and what Sheryl was doing probably seemed wrong to him, even though it wasn't. Asking him to do stuff so he can complain is what Alto is all about.
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Old 2008-09-04, 11:54   Link #1867
BetoJR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Ranka would never have gotten into it if Sheryl didn't look down on Ranka and bury her in fortune cookies.
What? I seriously can't, for the life of me, understand what it is you're trying to say here...

As for your "captive audience" comment... I can go along with only literally, seeing as they were all captives of the circumstances all around them - with the battle raging and explosions and death abound. But, other than that, you're just not willing to consider a character maturing or taking some responsibility, and only seems to think of it in terms of Sheryl wanting to exploit the moment and try to regain her popularity - something which is, arguably, not what was intended by the scene (and her inner monologue).
But hey, to each his own.
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Old 2008-09-04, 12:08   Link #1868
ippus
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Haha Wesley84;; I think at this point you're in complete denial over the main aspect of Ranka entire plot, that being she WANTED to be a singer, she CHASED the dream, made everyone hype up for her then dumped it straight out the window over a guy that never gave any assurance to a 100% hookup;;;

Considering you did, I'm not at all surprised at where your opinions stand >A>;
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Old 2008-09-04, 12:09   Link #1869
CaptGloval
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Sure, all you have to do is remember Minmey, no?
Yup and going further...

In the Guld-Myung-Isamu triangle of Macross Plus, there was no clear lead character just like now in Frontier (although you could say it's Isamu because he was shown first) and the two guys played their part in thwarting Sharon Apple.

Macross 7 was a Basara show.

In Macross Zero, Sara and Shin ultimately resolved the conflict concerning the Birdman with some help from Mao.

So you see, in Macross there's no clear correlation on importance on the plot and the victory in the love triangle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ippus View Post
Haha.
Also, who cares about subs? Much of the actual storyline is crap anyway :'D *shot*
Lately I've started just watching the raws...I found it was surprisingly easy to understand.
*shoots you*

Do read the subs, it'll boost your arguments and evidences because you won't be accused of twisting the facts.
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Old 2008-09-04, 12:10   Link #1870
BetoJR
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And... what about episode 22?
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Old 2008-09-04, 12:14   Link #1871
ippus
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@CaptGloval: Oh I DO.
It just never makes much of a difference XD

But come on, by plot itself MF is possibly the worst of its franchise (Okay...Maybe M7 is...but at least M7 was bad enough to be utterly hilarious...?). I'm only really here to see Sheryl's ending; Frontier can go burn for all I care :'DDDDDDDD
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Old 2008-09-04, 12:27   Link #1872
BetoJR
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Well, I'd rate Frontier only below Plus and the original SDF, if only for the music and some of the characters, so far. I'm willing to revise my opinion, as per the series ultimate resolution, tho.
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Old 2008-09-04, 12:42   Link #1873
Wesley84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ippus View Post
Haha Wesley84;; I think at this point you're in complete denial over the main aspect of Ranka entire plot, that being she WANTED to be a singer, she CHASED the dream, made everyone hype up for her then dumped it straight out the window over a guy that never gave any assurance to a 100% hookup;;;

Considering you did, I'm not at all surprised at where your opinions stand >A>;
I enjoyed Ranka chasing "her dream", but she didn't get into because it was her decision, she didn't stick with it because she wanted to, and she finally, hopefully, dropped it after figuring out that it wasn't really something she wanted to do for herself.

I say she'd have just been as happy performing for people as serving them at the Nyan-Nyan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
What? I seriously can't, for the life of me, understand what it is you're trying to say here...
Sheryl was bemused by Ranka in a puppy dog sort of way during that scene, and her actual words had no substance at all like fortune cookies. Revealing her identity the way she did was a massive ego trip. Some people might like to believe Sheryl "saw" something in Ranka, but it really was just Sheryl acting on a whim and making her head explode from swelling.

Quote:
As for your "captive audience" comment... I can go along with only literally, seeing as they were all captives of the circumstances all around them - with the battle raging and explosions and death abound. But, other than that, you're just not willing to consider a character maturing or taking some responsibility, and only seems to think of it in terms of Sheryl wanting to exploit the moment and try to regain her popularity - something which is, arguably, not what was intended by the scene (and her inner monologue).
But hey, to each his own.
The real problem with that scene is it's so typical of the shallow, theatrical garbage that Sheryl dishes out on a regular basis.
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Old 2008-09-04, 13:37   Link #1874
BetoJR
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Oh, sure... you can defend Ranka with your own wildly imaginative assumptions, but when someone debates them with actual facts, you start again with "I say"...

And when it's time to judge Sheryl by what's actually happening on the scenes (be it visually, or communicated through internal monologue), you do the exact same thing, just because you seem to dislike her character - if only because she disputes the main love interest with Ranka, eh?

How's that for an honest debate?

Honestly, it's getting hard to discuss here with you, as we do seem to be going around in circles and completely diverging from the thread's topic, with no ammount of persuasion working on either "side"...
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Old 2008-09-04, 13:41   Link #1875
evil|plushie
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Wesley, you make Ranka sound like some brainless twit who's apparently gullible and easily manipulated into caving into everyone's desires and has no mind of her own. I mean, your explanation for her actions for the first 60-70% of the show is that 'she does what others tell/want her to do'
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Old 2008-09-04, 13:44   Link #1876
aneeshadc
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@ Wesley
You know, u crack me up. Nothing u say is gonna rain on the awesomeness of Sheryl & the awesomeness of episode 22 for me.
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Old 2008-09-04, 14:07   Link #1877
Wesley84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
Wesley, you make Ranka sound like some brainless twit who's apparently gullible and easily manipulated into caving into everyone's desires and has no mind of her own. I mean, your explanation for her actions for the first 60-70% of the show is that 'she does what others tell/want her to do'
Sure. Why not? Remember in episode 18 when Alto basically said it was "Us or them" after she expressed some doubt? She had a complete 180 degree in attitude and became Miss Genki all because Alto approved of what she was doing. Sheryl says some bullshit line with the word "fate" thrown into it, and she becomes all confident about everything.

Ranka is capable, but she gives certain people way too much credit. She could do what she wants, pretty much anything she wants, but what she does do is mostly because of other people. And that's fine, because the last thing I want her to do is become some egomanical tramp like Sheryl who steps on other people and thinks she's the shit because she has some talent while being a knockout.

Ranka's kind of like Ozma. She doesn't have ambition, but she is values those close to her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aneeshadc View Post
@ Wesley
You know, u crack me up. Nothing u say is gonna rain on the awesomeness of Sheryl & the awesomeness of episode 22 for me.
I'm sure I'm going to hate. Sheryl's been a massive disappointment so far, and the one developement out of her that I would like to see probably isn't going to happen because it'd require to admit what is truly wrong with her's and Alto's characters.
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Old 2008-09-04, 14:20   Link #1878
TwilightHack
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Originally Posted by CeruleaFeng View Post
Come on, guys, don't feed the troll. The more to respond to his posts, the worse he's going to get.
Agreed, most of the people have him on ignore. I'm surprised he's actually doing debating instead of irking.

Personally I don't have him on ignore, but I also don't take his posts seriously anymore... ever since he went out of his way to pull people's strings.

Oh well, here's to hoping for Alto x Sheryl endings!
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Old 2008-09-04, 14:21   Link #1879
BetoJR
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Wesley84, you crack me up.

Maybe you're watching a different series, perhaps?
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Old 2008-09-04, 14:21   Link #1880
ippus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84
I'm sure I'm going to hate. Sheryl's been a massive disappointment so far, and the one developement out of her that I would like to see probably isn't going to happen because it'd require to admit what is truly wrong with her's and Alto's characters.
Like the fact that they're pretty?

Oh noes, one's a singer and the other spent his ENTIRE childhood being forced on stage. How DARE they be interested in the spotlight! How utterly shallow of them. Now they're trying to get their grimy fame-whore claws on poor little Ranka 8DDDDDDDD

Wesley84 I don't think you're necessarily wrong on some points, but sometimes your viewpoints are overly biased, and a lot of your evidence only makes sense if the entire Frontier fleet was filled with jackasses aiming to drag Ranka down into a pit-hole of despair.

@CeruleaFeng: I said this before but...by definition he's not a troll.
He just has....rather peculiar opinions;
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