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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier - Episode 22 Rating
Perfect 10 94 58.39%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 41 25.47%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 6.21%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 1.86%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 3.11%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.24%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 6 3.73%
Voters: 161. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-09-04, 18:55   Link #161
zalem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja-Y-Ce View Post
I guess in short, Seifall is trying to say that - this episode is full of pure win for Sheryl's fans... as expected by him ... but... because when Brera is the "other factor" that Alto still has no knowledge of... and when Alto learns abt Brera's true identity and motive, he might move to Ranka's side instead (Alto X Ranka) as Seifall's speculation... and that will be "surprising" since today's episode is full of Alto X Sheryl (hence setting us a trap to be thinking in this direction).
If Alto did that he would win the asshole of the year award. He already told Sheryl he was there for her and would stay by her side until the end. God knows I don't think much of Alto, but he is not the type to go back on his word. Of course, that could be kind of ominous and be foreshadowing her death. But if that happens it's not exactly good for Ranka fans either. It makes her the consolation prize. If he even chooses to be with her that is. Because even if Sheryl dies that doesn't mean Ranka automatically wins.

As for the Brera thing, do be honest I don't see that they even have much time for that. He'll react and get over it quickly. From the looks of things Frontier will not be anywhere near Ranka until the end of ep 24 or ep. 25.

I've always been the pessimist and thought it would be a RankaxAlto end, but this ep does give me some hope. However, I'm still wary. To me ep 21 just shouts RankaxAlto end. I'm afraid they might make SherylxAlto and then kill her off and throw RankaxAlto together.

I hope something works out and she gets cured. Because I want at least ONE of the two couples I've been shipping lately to win. Cause I don't think Kalulu is going to work out in the end. So SherylXAlto must win!
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Old 2008-09-04, 18:56   Link #162
aneeshadc
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I just saw the raw, If thats pity I'll eat my hat. I cried , that was the most powerful scene ever, so much emotion shown by alto & sheryl, even if I didnt understand a single word they said, it moved me to tears. I refuse to believe alto's not in love with Sheryl after that, I cant see him going back to ranka, I just cant, not after that. I loved alto's show of emotion, his voice, eyes, the hug, everything. This episode rocked.
If alto/ranka happens after this, I swear, I'm going to haunt Kawamori for life.......it just would be sooooo inconsistant & soooo disappointing.
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Old 2008-09-04, 19:07   Link #163
zalem
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If Alto abandons Sheryl for Ranka....man, I don't know what to say. Not after the things he said in that scene. The only way I could see it happening is if Sheryl is dead. Which of course, could happen unfortunately. But if he does go Ranka chasing and abandons his pledge to stay with Sheryl while she is alive then he is lower than dirt.
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Old 2008-09-04, 19:17   Link #164
aneeshadc
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Seconded! He'd be the biggest asshole ever! But it'd be totally out of character for him to do something like that, sure he can be a jerk sometimes but I dont see him sinking to a level as low as that. I dont think kawamori would bastardize his character like that without any purpose. ( ranka getting her alto in the end would be a very sucky reason , IMO, Plot obviously doesnt require it, so why would he?)
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Old 2008-09-04, 19:29   Link #165
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so anyway,

did anyone notice that Alto was using a 171 Valkyrie in this episode?
a downgrade instead of an upgrade in my mecha anime?

more likely than you think

on the other hand, Grace got showed of glimpse of her new valk

Grace is the main character!?
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Old 2008-09-04, 19:29   Link #166
Realist_Classic
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The Sheryl/Alto scene was beautiful, but I agree with what others have said in that it's not all entirely clear whether it's Sheryl and Alto are a done deal. Has Alto really connected with Sheryl on the emotional level as a significant other or is he moved by empathy to her tragic predicament? Perhaps it's a mixture of both, but it's still ambiguous.

I'm curious though, as to what path Alto will ultimately take, after Ozma posed that question during their duel. Has he already decided to stay back on Frontier in order to protect Sheryl? Many decisions are practically made by circumstances--Alto missed his chance when he had to stay by Sheryl's side. By the end of the episode though, he is extremely frustrated with everything that has happened. How the story then turns out, I think, will largely depend on Alto's choices in the final episodes as the last scenes seem to hint.

Just like those Galaxy entities, I was elated when the Vajra planet was revealed. Never has the prospects of seeing massive Itano circuses and dogfights in a real sky been so good (frankly, no Macross series would be complete without a real atmospheric battle).
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Old 2008-09-04, 19:31   Link #167
Realist_Classic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zalem View Post
If Alto abandons Sheryl for Ranka....man, I don't know what to say. Not after the things he said in that scene. The only way I could see it happening is if Sheryl is dead. Which of course, could happen unfortunately. But if he does go Ranka chasing and abandons his pledge to stay with Sheryl while she is alive then he is lower than dirt.
Quite possible, given Alto's yearning to fly in an endless sky, a dream that can be realized should he settles down on the Vajra planet
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Old 2008-09-04, 19:33   Link #168
Seifall
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
I find it laughable you're pinning your hopes on a couple who have had one episode of development between them from 16-22... and probably won't even meet again until episode 25. And it's not like the first half of the series was in her favor anyway.....
Not Gambatte Sheryl anymore but win, victory instead ? I have to tell the sheryl's fanbase got bigger.... but I must also tell you you got better too in speculation.
Darkwing... I understand you

I find it funny that people are making assumption like they kissed in that scene although they didn't show it.
In episode 20 they showed sheryl over alto but no one here dared to say(even if at the end it was confirmed she fainted), that they were lovey dovey because it would have put sheryl on the bad role.
Now yesterday, they just showed Alto wipe away her tears but this was good for alto and sheryl so it happenned, they kissed ...
You see what you want to see....

I read here people talking about alto who didn't confesses to Ranka unlike her, so this is over...
He didn't confessed to sheryl too and worst, unlike Ranka ,she is dying....
If he really loved her like people are saying here, he would have confessed already no? since this is the perfect time to do so.

People were taking me like crazy when I talked about the romance between alto and Ranka but THIS episode was full of it for those two and was it resolved,? no .
The " If you really want to sing then I will be with you" is kind of disturbing no,?
I call it staying with a dying person out of pity at this point.
People here don't want to make the link with episode 20 -21 ?
Michel died, Ranka leaved and now sheryl is dying .
For the first time since episode 1 he saw her crying, people assume because he takes her in his arms that yeah, he loves her... but she is her only friend(Luca and him are not that close). Mickail and Ranka are not here anymore, of course he doesn't want to lose her...

Looks like you should go out of your bubble. you're all win, win celebration party... People tell i don't get it, but was I wrong in what I said since the beginning? no.
People think it's already over... you are too predictable.
And for the person who said the image i posted didn't have anything to do with the romance. Alto didn't make his choice unlike Ozma and Ranka but why would Ozma tell him " for what are you wings for" if not for Ranka ? In what taking his VF has something to do with sheryl ?
She is in Frontier and doesn't plan to move since she is ill. So this is between staying with sheryl or going to Ranka no ? But if he stays with sheryl he can says byb bye to the sky and his VF.... (Ranka is gone,the vajra too so NUNS has no use now ..)

Someone also posted something about anata no oto for the final in linking it to Sheryl but people may have forgot this is Ranka's song and the played part for sheryl and Alto was already played.....

Don't bury ranka yet. She will surprise you.
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Old 2008-09-04, 19:39   Link #169
TwilightHack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seifall View Post
Don't bury ranka yet. She will surprise you.
Of course she'll surprise us, she always does. Sometimes it good, sometimes its bad.

All I know right now is that I like the Alto x Sheryl interactions and to never trust Macross... especially after what happened in SDF with Minmei and Misa.
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Old 2008-09-04, 19:43   Link #170
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Originally Posted by Seifall View Post
Not Gambatte Sheryl anymore but win, victory instead ? I have to tell the sheryl's fanbase got bigger.... but I must also tell you you got better too in speculation.
Darkwing... I understand you

I find it funny that people are making assumption like they kissed in that scene although they didn't show it.
In episode 20 they showed sheryl over alto but no one here dared to say(even if at the end it was confirmed she fainted), that they were lovey dovey because it would have put sheryl on the bad role.
Now yesterday, they just showed Alto wipe away her tears but this was good for alto and sheryl so it happenned, they kissed ...
You see what you want to see....

I read here people talking about alto who didn't confesses to Ranka unlike her, so this is over...
He didn't confessed to sheryl too and worst, unlike Ranka ,she is dying....
If he really loved her like people are saying here, he would have confessed already no? since this is the perfect time to do so.

People were taking me like crazy when I talked about the romance between alto and Ranka but THIS episode was full of it for those two and was it resolved,? no .
The " If you really want to sing then I will be with you" is kind of disturbing no,?
I call it staying with a dying person out of pity at this point.
People here don't want to make the link with episode 20 -21 ?
Michel died, Ranka leaved and now sheryl is dying .
For the first time since episode 1 he saw her crying, people assume because he takes her in his arms that yeah, he loves her... but she is her only friend(Luca and him are not that close). Mickail and Ranka are not here anymore, of course he doesn't want to lose her...

Looks like you should go out of your bubble. you're all win, win celebration party... People tell i don't get it, but was I wrong in what I said since the beginning? no.
People think it's already over... you are too predictable.
And for the person who said the image i posted didn't have anything to do with the romance. Alto didn't make his choice unlike Ozma and Ranka but why would Ozma tell him " for what are you wings for" if not for Ranka ? In what taking his VF has something to do with sheryl ?
She is in Frontier and doesn't plan to move since she is ill. So this is between staying with sheryl or going to Ranka no ? But if he stays with sheryl he can says byb bye to the sky and his VF.... (Ranka is gone,the vajra too so NUNS has no use now ..)

Someone also posted something about anata no oto for the final in linking it to Sheryl but people may have forgot this is Ranka's song and the played part for sheryl and Alto was already played.....

Don't bury ranka yet. She will surprise you.
seems like a passionate kiss isn't enough for you. Alto kissed Sheryl, but Alto didn't kiss Ranka. What does that say about the story? Well, he might have kissed her out of pity, but I think he kissed her because he loves her.
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Old 2008-09-04, 19:44   Link #171
ReddyRedWolf
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The swirl formation on the ring of the tri-moon Earth-like planet looks like a combination of the Birdman spiral formation in Zero and the Protoculture symbol in DYRL. Could this be the Protoculture home world?
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Old 2008-09-04, 19:47   Link #172
zalem
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Oh I'm still pessimistic and think they'll shove RankaxAlto at us in the final episode. Though part of me strongly hopes not. It is looking more and more like there will be a bitter sweet ending. Sheryl dying or something like that.

Of course, I do think Ranka will have a big move. She certainly will be the key to bringing peace among both humanity and the vajra. Will she win Alto? Maybe. Who knows. But you also seem to not be considering that neither Sheryl nor Ranka will win in the end. We could get the unresolved end. Sheryl dying, Ranka staying with the Vajra.
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Old 2008-09-04, 19:52   Link #173
Elehayym
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Originally Posted by Lostdreams View Post
seems like a passionate kiss isn't enough for you. Alto kissed Sheryl, but Alto didn't kiss Ranka. What does that say about the story? Well, he might have kissed her out of pity, but I think he kissed her because he loves her.
As much as I think AltoXRanka woudn't really make sense at this point, I'm still skeptic about the whole kiss thing... if they really did kiss why not show it? They did before so it's not like it's a taboo or something D:

That said, dunno if it's only me but I did have the impression that the main reason why Alto didn't go with SMS was to be with Sheryl. Besides he had just finished telling Sheryl that he would be with her till the end and running away with Ozma right after would've been a bit ridiculous ^^;

The last part of the episode felt weird though cause Ozma & co are clearly depicted as the "good guys" (quite obviously since we know what Leon has been scheming), but then what's the role of Alto, Sheryl and Luca right now? Allies of the bad guy without knowing that he's a bad guy maybe? I wish they showed what was that Ozma sent to everyone in SMS D:
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Old 2008-09-04, 20:10   Link #174
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Originally Posted by Lostdreams View Post
seems like a passionate kiss isn't enough for you. Alto kissed Sheryl, but Alto didn't kiss Ranka. What does that say about the story? Well, he might have kissed her out of pity, but I think he kissed her because he loves her.

I remember about you and your post. No offense, but how old are you ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zalem View Post
Oh I'm still pessimistic and think they'll shove RankaxAlto at us in the final episode. Though part of me strongly hopes not. It is looking more and more like there will be a bitter sweet ending. Sheryl dying or something like that.



edit: I forgot no future spoilers in this thread, so I got rid of this part.

Of course, I do think Ranka will have a big move. She certainly will be the key to bringing peace among both humanity and the vajra. Will she win Alto? Maybe. Who knows. But you also seem to not be considering that neither Sheryl nor Ranka will win in the end. We could get the unresolved end. Sheryl dying, Ranka staying with the Vajra.
Why sheryl has to die for Ranka to end up with alto ?
This has nothing to do. It's better for her to live even if alto loves Ranka no ?
Now that they made Alto finding out about sheryl's illness before choosing the girl... this is pretty obvious Alto and sheryl will not happen.
They perfectly know Ranka's fan will say the Alto and sheryl pair is a false since he took her because of her disease, not because of her...
Why did they do that ? To prepare sheryl 's fan for the shock which will follow.
Yes, and reading the post here, i think this is working...
they are showing you some hints not, prooves about a sheryl who is winning over alto but where this is wrong, is with alto finding out the thuth about her.

And this lead us towards what I said a while ago about sheryl's disease who is the one who make alto being in a closest relationship with her.
Some people overanalized the characters saying this is not true... well this episode proves me right.

And Kawamori said alto will make his choice.... so episode 24 with Ranka's come back ?
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Old 2008-09-04, 20:14   Link #175
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Originally Posted by zalem View Post
Oh I'm still pessimistic and think they'll shove RankaxAlto at us in the final episode. Though part of me strongly hopes not. It is looking more and more like there will be a bitter sweet ending. Sheryl dying or something like that.

Of course, I do think Ranka will have a big move. She certainly will be the key to bringing peace among both humanity and the vajra. Will she win Alto? Maybe. Who knows. But you also seem to not be considering that neither Sheryl nor Ranka will win in the end. We could get the unresolved end. Sheryl dying, Ranka staying with the Vajra.
the director said that he is going to choose one, what has happened so far doesn't seem like he has made a choice. Osma's word also indicate that he has to decide what he wants to do.
Being an outside observer and not rooting for either of the two girls I think Sheryl has the upper hand, even though he knowing she is dying make it look like pity.
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Old 2008-09-04, 20:17   Link #176
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Can someone fill me in on the markings surrounding the planet?

Has this been seen before in a previous Macross series?
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Old 2008-09-04, 20:18   Link #177
zalem
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You do realize that Alto could make his choice and still not end up with that person? Like I said, Sheryl dying or Ranka going with the Vajra. Kawamori won't necessarily give us a happy ending.

Oh he doesn't have to only go to Ranka if Sheryl dies. The writers are free to do whatever with him. I'm just saying that if he goes chasing after Ranka after he has already pledged to stay by Sheryl's side that is a pretty shitty thing to do imho. That's all. Doesn't mean he won't do it of course. Though maybe Sheryl will actually encourage him to go after her. That's a thought. If that was the case it would be slightly less reprehensible on his part.
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Old 2008-09-04, 20:20   Link #178
cheesie
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Originally Posted by Seifall View Post
Why sheryl has to die for Ranka to end up with alto ?
This has nothing to do. It's better for her to live even if alto loves Ranka no ?
Now that they made Alto finding out about sheryl's illness before choosing the girl... this is pretty obvious Alto and sheryl will not happen.
They perfectly know Ranka's fan will say the Alto and sheryl pair is a false since he took her because of her disease, not because of her...
Why did they do that ? To prepare sheryl 's fan for the shock which will follow.
Yes, and reading the post here, i think this is working...
they are showing you some hints not, prooves about a sheryl who is winning over alto but where this is wrong, is with alto finding out the thuth about her.

And this lead us towards what I said a while ago about sheryl's disease who is the one who make alto being in a closest relationship with her.
Some people overanalized the characters saying this is not true... well this episode proves me right.

And Kawamori said alto will make his choice.... so episode 24 with Ranka's come back ?
I think it's time to stop being so dependent on the "Surprise Ending" remark by Kawamori, which is what all your previous arguments are dependent on. I am very welcome to this surprise ending Kawamori is talking about, but I'm sure he can tell the difference between a surprise ending and an inconsistent ending. As musouka has put it eloquently, the stage has been set for an Alto x Sheryl ending, and no matter how much violent or shaky the journey is, it will not change the final destination point the series has been leaning towards. Of course, there is always a chance Alto x Ranka could happen, and I'm sure most, if not all, would call it cheap and inconsistent ending. But I've seen a sufficient number of Kawamori's works to have enough faith in this man for him to see what he's doing and manage his hold on the series firmly and neatly.
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Old 2008-09-04, 20:21   Link #179
TwilightHack
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I remember about you and your post. No offense, but how old are you ?
That was a pretty uncalled for retort.

I'd like to point out to you that you're riding on a pretty fine line there. In fact, my respect for you and your arguments has gone down a notch.

Keep to discussion rather than making personal attacks.

Quote:
And Kawamori said alto will make his choice.... so episode 24 with Ranka's come back ?
This could already be seen as a choice. Things will escalate from here.
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Old 2008-09-04, 20:23   Link #180
zalem
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I always felt they were pushing RankaxAlto from the beginning so if that's the "surprise"....well, it's not very surprising. At all.
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