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View Poll Results: Code Geass R2 - Episode 21 Rating
Perfect 10 376 64.05%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 86 14.65%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 45 7.67%
7 out of 10 : Good 20 3.41%
6 out of 10 : Average 15 2.56%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 4 0.68%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 0.34%
3 out of 10 : Bad 6 1.02%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 2 0.34%
1 out of 10 : Painful 31 5.28%
Voters: 587. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-09-06, 18:57   Link #1481
amjzz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Suzaku's not going to get to run Area 11. That would be political suicide for Lelouch. If it isn't already free, Lelouch will give it up.
Why a political suicide? If he does that then the order of the black knights reach their goal and the war ends, it could be a happy ending....

Even if brittania hates the area 11 and the elevens, lelouch is the emperor and he has the power of the geass....so i dont see a problem there....
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Old 2008-09-06, 19:00   Link #1482
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by amjzz View Post
Why a political suicide? If he does that then the order of the black knights reach their goal and the war ends, it could be a happy ending....

Even if brittania hates the area 11 and the elevens, lelouch is the emperor and he has the power of the geass....so i dont see a problem there....
The Black Knights don't want Britannia running Japan, they want Japan free. If Lelouch has any hope of ending the fighting, which he clearly does if he intends to make a world where people can be kind to others, then giving up Japan is the only way he can do it.
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Old 2008-09-06, 21:36   Link #1483
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Suzaku's not going to get to run Area 11. That would be political suicide for Lelouch. If it isn't already free, Lelouch will give it up.
I never understand why it was such a big deal to rule Japan. Suzaku and Lelouch now control half of the world, Japan is pretty much insignificant at that point and the empire needs them. Not to run off to Japan and run things from there.
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Old 2008-09-06, 21:56   Link #1484
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
I never understand why it was such a big deal to rule Japan. Suzaku and Lelouch now control half of the world, Japan is pretty much insignificant at that point and the empire needs them. Not to run off to Japan and run things from there.
Considering that all modern technology runs off a substance which Japan possesses a practical monopoly on, it is a rather important place. It's like Dune universe shrunk into a planet.
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Old 2008-09-06, 22:21   Link #1485
amjzz
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
I never understand why it was such a big deal to rule Japan. Suzaku and Lelouch now control half of the world, Japan is pretty much insignificant at that point and the empire needs them. Not to run off to Japan and run things from there.
It think that its because in code geass the mount fuji is a mine of "sakuradite" a mineral that is used as a fuel for the knightmares.
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Old 2008-09-06, 23:12   Link #1486
Child_of_Sierra
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Its a long shot considering he doesn't want his friends to be in harm's way but i see some positions to be filled by lelouch's "school friends"

media (Diethhard) >>>Milly
best-friend (Tamaki) >>> Rivalz
weapons development (Rakhasha?) >>>Nina (assuming she wants redemption by creating something that nullifies freiya and the fact she miraculously forgives lelouch. my real bet is on llyod though)

new captain of the royal guard >>>(Kallen) Suzaku

The fact that orange wasn't shown the entire ep also makes me worried that they somehow captured/turned him already and has been researching to develop an antigeass weapon based on that eye of his
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Old 2008-09-06, 23:23   Link #1487
Freya
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Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra View Post
Its a long shot considering he doesn't want his friends to be in harm's way but i see some positions to be filled by lelouch's "school friends"

media (Diethhard) >>>Milly
best-friend (Tamaki) >>> Rivalz
weapons development (Rakhasha?) >>>Nina (assuming she wants redemption by creating something that nullifies freiya and the fact she miraculously forgives lelouch. my real bet is on llyod though)

new captain of the royal guard >>>(Kallen) Suzaku

The fact that orange wasn't shown the entire ep also makes me worried that they somehow captured/turned him already and has been researching to develop an antigeass weapon based on that eye of his
Rofl Lelouch would kill Nina than have her help him.

And orange is still looking for Nunnally.
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Old 2008-09-06, 23:37   Link #1488
amjzz
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Nina doesnt know that lelouch is zero. And i doubt that orange will help the order of the black knights because he said he will help lelouch....
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Old 2008-09-07, 04:51   Link #1489
Child_of_Sierra
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Originally Posted by amjzz View Post
Nina doesnt know that lelouch is zero. And i doubt that orange will help the order of the black knights because he said he will help lelouch....
It doesn't have to be consensual help if they realized he was actually loyal to lelouch care of Cornelia and had entraped orange to study him
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Old 2008-09-07, 05:02   Link #1490
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Charles says in 15 that there is only one person, and there would be only one person if his plan had gone through. Charles and Marianne wanted a world where no one would be able to hide who they really are, and this required breaking the masks "God" creates for that purpose. And again, politics in the new world would not mean the same thing, so it wouldn't be politics.
Charles said 'there is only one person', which means that his statement was already true at the time he was saying it. Given that Ragnorok hadn't been activated yet, it's pretty clear that it (Ragnorok) had nothing to do with humanity's 'oneness'.

In fact, Charles' statement was a pretty clear reference to Jung's 'collective unconciousness'. Given that that was what the World of C was, that goes for Marianne's statements as well: in the psychological school of literary analysis, the 'female' is considered a chaotic force which desires to absorb everything into itself (via its engulfing vagina) while the 'male' is considered an orderly force which desires to separate and define (via its phallic penis).

Anyway, my point is, those things are to be taken as allusions, not literally. Characters' various uses of 'one' have nothing to do with individuality.

Quote:
There would be no individuality in Charles and Marianne's world, because the ability to distinguish the memories of one person from those of another would be forever lost. Everyone would be the same person.
See, you don't really know what you're talking about. Memories and feelings don't define a person. You are aware that people's behaviour and personalities are based some 80% upon genetics as opposed to a meagre 20% on their environment/experiences, right? Even having exactly the same memories and experiences, two different bodies will not behave alike. And seriously, how did you even get from 'people would have access to the memories of others' to 'people wouldn't be able to distinguish their own'?
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Old 2008-09-07, 05:20   Link #1491
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Charles said 'there is only one person', which means that his statement was already true at the time he was saying it. Given that Ragnorok hadn't been activated yet, it's pretty clear that it (Ragnorok) had nothing to do with humanity's 'oneness'.

In fact, Charles' statement was a pretty clear reference to Jung's 'collective unconciousness'. Given that that was what the World of C was, that goes for Marianne's statements as well: in the psychological school of literary analysis, the 'female' is considered a chaotic force which desires to absorb everything into itself (via its engulfing vagina) while the 'male' is considered an orderly force which desires to separate and define (via its phallic penis).

Anyway, my point is, those things are to be taken as allusions, not literally. Characters' various uses of 'one' have nothing to do with individuality.

See, you don't really know what you're talking about. Memories and feelings don't define a person. You are aware that people's behaviour and personalities are based some 80% upon genetics as opposed to a meagre 20% on their environment/experiences, right? Even having exactly the same memories and experiences, two different bodies will not behave alike. And seriously, how did you even get from 'people would have access to the memories of others' to 'people wouldn't be able to distinguish their own'?
Honestly, I've explained this more times than I care to, so I only intend to do it once more.

C's World, in succinct terms, is every human that ever was, is, and will be. Their thoughts, memories, and so forth united as a single will divided among individuals though the masks it creates. Charles plan was to eliminate those masks. In doing so, everything that is all those souls is united once more, a unified will replacing the scattered masses. You focus on the physical form as if it somehow defines individuality, but it does not, not on its own. Twins are individuals, despite looking the same. What defines a person is their ability to distinguish themselves from others, which simply can't be done if all that is them is shared with everyone else and vice versa. Individuality is lost in the sea of shared consciousness.
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Old 2008-09-07, 06:18   Link #1492
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Honestly, I've explained this more times than I care to, so I only intend to do it once more.

C's World, in succinct terms, is every human that ever was, is, and will be. Their thoughts, memories, and so forth united as a single will divided among individuals though the masks it creates. Charles plan was to eliminate those masks. In doing so, everything that is all those souls is united once more, a unified will replacing the scattered masses. You focus on the physical form as if it somehow defines individuality, but it does not, not on its own. Twins are individuals, despite looking the same. What defines a person is their ability to distinguish themselves from others, which simply can't be done if all that is them is shared with everyone else and vice versa. Individuality is lost in the sea of shared consciousness.
Fine with me, man. I'm not the one going around trying to push my opinion onto others; I'm just pointing out the logical flaws in your reasoning.

And here we've got some more. The World of C is the summation of human past. There's no indication at all that current humans inhabit the World of C, and there's even less reason to believe that it is the originator of human souls. Furthermore, as a mere collection of consciousness, Jupiter has no will. If God had truly infused every human with some small part of his will, then why would C.C.--who is far more intimately knowledgeable of the World of C than you--assert that no person's life holds meaning?

To continue: your half-assed counterpoint about twins fails because although twins are genetically identical, this is not true physically (phenotypically). Two twins with entirely identical memories would still be able to tell each other apart by the fact that one has herpes and the other melted his arm in a vat of acid. To put it simply, how the fuck are you getting that Ragnorok shares 'all' that is a person when different people still inhabit different physical realities? Charles said that people would be able to understand each other, not jack each others bodies. You would still be able to distinguish yourself from others from the fact that its not your face (as in, the one you can contort into funny shapes) which is being mauled by a grizzly bear.
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Old 2008-09-07, 17:22   Link #1493
finalnight
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
Okay, that is IT. 'Kay? Nunnally Vi Britannia is motherfucking DEAD. Vaporized, atomized, vanquished, dissolved, fucking GONE FROM THE WORLD STAGE. I know it's incredibly hard for some of you to take a fucking hint, and go, oh, she's just in hiding or she's on damn Jupiter, but she's DEAD. The site NEVER bullshits. Taniguchi does NOT withdraw on his actions and say "HEY! She/he was alive after all, ah, we were fucking with you!"

NUNNALLY IS DEAD.
Owned.
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Old 2008-09-07, 17:24   Link #1494
Dream_Traveller
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Except she's alive.
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Old 2008-09-08, 23:26   Link #1495
Utau
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pro-Nunnally's are really going at it now aren't they
that post is like 32 pages aback, and i lol'd, but seriously, no need to drag this all over the place.

Spoiler for turn 22:
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Old 2008-09-10, 16:49   Link #1496
anime ronin
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lelouche is starting to abuse his geass... if he has to mind control everybody to take over the world, then i cant just give him the honorable respect i use to
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Old 2008-09-10, 19:06   Link #1497
KrimzonStriker
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lelouche is starting to abuse his geass... if he has to mind control everybody to take over the world, then i cant just give him the honorable respect i use to
Other then the fact that that's kind of impossible and kind of antithesis of what he stood for in Turn 21 by rejecting Charles then I kind of doubt it. It's just a way of securing his power so he can push forward for his real plan, I'm telling you >_>
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