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View Poll Results: Potential Pairing - Multiple Choice Option
Alto x VF 171 32 12.31%
Ozma x Bobby 13 5.00%
Ranka x Sheryl 42 16.15%
Sheryl x Alto 199 76.54%
Yasaburo x Alto 5 1.92%
Ranka x Ai-kun 38 14.62%
Alto x Klan 14 5.38%
Ranka x Alto 54 20.77%
Ranka x Brera 37 14.23%
Klan x Michael 101 38.85%
Ozma x Cathy 111 42.69%
Luca x Nanase 41 15.77%
Wilder x Monica 41 15.77%
Alto x VF25 37 14.23%
Yasaburo x Alto's father 10 3.85%
Alto x Brera 18 6.92%
Grace x Ranka 12 4.62%
Nanase x Ranka 21 8.08%
Sheryl x Klan 24 9.23%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 260. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-09-07, 06:34   Link #2061
kilroy0097
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The first Sheryl Song in Ep 22

GG Fansub translation:

Everyone calls me a fairy.
And I answer them.
I don't feel it because of the burden in my heart.
I flew into the sky...
I met you, and quivered in love
I've shed the feathers of my confusion
Soaked by the rain I've come back to life and fly away.
Call for me...
For another day...
With your voice...
There's nothing to regret since it's just our secret love.
Tell me that you love me...

A different translation (source)

Translation:
Everyone calls me by the name “Fairy”.
And I live up to my name.

I sense no heaviness in my heart.
So I could fly across the vast space.

Ever since I came to know you, I have been quivering in love,
As I stood in bewilderment, feeling vulnerable, with my wings soaked in rain,
I woke up to my calling. Fly away. (Call out to me)
For another day. (In your own voice)
With no regrets. Just secret love.
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Old 2008-09-07, 07:10   Link #2062
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Spoiler for Revisited analysis of ep 22 :):
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Old 2008-09-07, 08:21   Link #2063
Seifall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darial View Post
I can't resist the bait.... ()

Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightHack View Post
Oh man that had me rolling. Especially the 3rd pic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfboy View Post
I don't think either of the heroines are really all that beautiful. They're cute in some shots but average in most, possibly due to the inconsistent art/style. To me, Myung's still the prettiest of all the leads in Macross.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
ROFL!!!

You sent me crawlin' after the 3 shots. I still have the needle for balloon bursting in the first. A nice face for "maturity"... nice one. The plat de résistance... an epic fail... I was laughing so hard with that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
*Sigh* She... slept with somebody who raped her. Come on.



I do not know if you are joking, or not.

That is unfortunately, not a fact. In Japan or overseas. Even on that pro-Ranka blog, Sheryl is still more popular according to her own polls.

- Tak
It was a extended metaphor in comparison with Sheryl.
Who seriously thinks that Ranka is beautiful as she is now(except the ones for who the beauty is in the eye of the beholder) ?
Everybody knows she is cute but not beautiful. Maybe she will become one when she comes back , though.
All the term " mature, determined, selfless "were used by the ones who support Sheryl to describe her character.
I take them to show how this is by far easy to stick up for a character who is already beautiful, mature,determined,selfless , unlike Ranka who has a lot of defects but that's what make her being the original one in this show.
I even made an allusion to Kawamori, knowing he is the one who wanted to make Ranka's character as she is now.
Since the start, he made her look like, under her age, not confident in herself...
So in doing this, he knew perfectly that, it would be more easy for the people to blame her character than it would be, to do so with Sheryl.
It's clear that people who do not want to see her character's growth beyond the little girl who just knows how to stickpeople like glue, are indeed taking the bait here.
This is not because I prefer Ranka's character that I automatically think she is perfect, beautiful, mature...
I even add " she is the most popular girl of the show" ....
Everybody knows here, Sheryl is the one popular, not Ranka.
It was a understatement, I thought it was obvious but looks like it was not.
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Old 2008-09-07, 08:36   Link #2064
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seifall View Post
It's clear that people who do not want to see her character's growth beyond the little girl who just knows how to stickpeople like glue,
Oh, we see character growth on her behalf, it just came, at least for me, too little too late.

- Tak
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Old 2008-09-07, 08:43   Link #2065
kilroy0097
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Unless there is a second season in which case it's just right.
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Old 2008-09-07, 08:54   Link #2066
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seifall View Post
I even add " she is the most popular girl of the show" ....
Everybody knows here, Sheryl is the one popular, not Ranka.
It was a understatement, I thought it was obvious but looks like it was not.
He's not talking about just here, when you talk about popularity it's not a question of whether Sheryl is more popular, it's more a matter of by how much. Even on 2ch the realm of lolicon fans prefers Sheryl.
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Old 2008-09-07, 09:13   Link #2067
Seifall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Oh, we see character growth on her behalf, it just came, at least for me, too little too late.

- Tak
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilroy0097 View Post
Unless there is a second season in which case it's just right.

OK, this is maybe too little too late or a second season is a must to acknowlodege her character's growth, BUT :

Spoiler for Ranka:




Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
He's not talking about just here, when you talk about popularity it's not a question of whether Sheryl is more popular, it's more a matter of by how much. Even on 2ch the realm of lolicon fans prefers Sheryl.
I think we can agree here. But do you think that because Sheryl is more popular than Ranka is, there is no way , the staff can do something like an Alto who rushes towards Ranka at the end ?
The plot is already resolved for them since a long time. The statement which say that , there are more sheryl fans so at least even if she is cured, she will end up with alto is not a obvious choice ....
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Old 2008-09-07, 09:58   Link #2068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seifall View Post
The plot is already resolved for them since a long time. The statement which say that , there are more sheryl fans so at least even if she is cured, she will end up with alto is not a obvious choice ....
yup, i'm sure everyone agrees with that, but what we were saying was just our opinion, cuz it will be damn ugly if alto does not fulfill his promise with sheryl
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Old 2008-09-07, 10:29   Link #2069
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seifall View Post
The plot is already resolved for them since a long time. The statement which say that , there are more sheryl fans so at least even if she is cured, she will end up with alto is not a obvious choice ....
The problem with this statement is that you cling to this default end that you believe, yet without any serious analysis on what makes one characters better, in majority opinion than another.

Ranka had been given a lot of options. More so than Sheryl ever had in the show's entirety. Sheryl had one thing, her career, but otherwise nothing. Ranka had everything, friends, family, career, and even mysterious powers that nobody else had. Throughout the show, we saw her steadily climbing up the social ladder, but never really fallen. Yet, when she encountered a slight setback, she faltered almost immediately. To many of us, she had taken her success, as with everything else, for granted. As if what she possessed throughout this entire series were hers by default, but she can not deal with a little disagreement (to put it nicely). Then she made a relatively irrational choice at the end of 21. It was a decision seemingly made on the go, without the consultation of those around her, even leaving her best friend behind without saying goodbye. While she left notes for Ozma and informed Alto at the last minute, she made no such effort to leave anything for Nanase, who had been a staunch (perhaps too much) supporter for her throughout the series. Perhaps she made the right decision by going to the Vajra home world, unfortunately, she also picked the worst time to do so, and at the end, left Alto confused to the excess. Yet, we were never told why she wanted to go to the Vajra planet.

Sheryl on the other hand, fell from grace in one of the most dramatic way I've yet seen in fiction. In addition to a frail body, she had nothing else but herself (although at this time, she at least has Alto) and her songs. Moreover, unlike Ranka, she never took the world or anyone and anything around her for granted. Nonetheless, Sheryl's determination allowed her to climb back up from point zero with her own two feet, and to resume the position as yousei of, at least this time, Frontier.

You also have to understand that this is a woman deceived from childhood to become a weapon. It was unfortunate that the experiment gone terribly wrong. Yet, she never complaint about her situation even after learning the truth. She was shocked, yes, but she continued facing each day with fierce determination and as much positive outlook as she can muster. She knew her life was short and she had nothing, but that did not stop her from continuing living without entering a state of depression. She remained a person who exercised logic, not only did she fought on in face of certain death, she also demonstrated that through her selflessness, she still cared for others around her and the person she loves. It was clear that Mike, and especially Klan, found her qualities to be most admirable. We too, found her qualities to be most admirable.

Regardless, if she had the power, given her character, she would have done everything that Ranka could with precision and professionalism.

In fact, I think it is with much justification if I say, in the catalogue of strong (physically or mentally) female characters, Sheryl Nome stands out from the rest of the crowd by being the most emotionally determined and the most emotionally powerful character ever to appear in a work of fiction.

Thus, why the majority preference for Sheryl over Ranka not only here, but in the opinions of Japanese fandom and fandom from overseas? The desire for her well-being and the union with her love at the end of the series? I believe the reasons are quite obvious. At the end, it matters not who wins the love triangle, Sheryl will always be a better woman.

- Tak
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Old 2008-09-07, 10:41   Link #2070
indr0008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
At the end, it matters not who wins the love triangle, Sheryl will always be a better woman.

- Tak
ALL HAIL SHERYL NOME!!

Tak, you were awesome
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Old 2008-09-07, 11:17   Link #2071
musouka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisis View Post
That people were able to draw their strength from Sheryl's voice, and continues to do so, is Sheryl's own proof of existence, that there was something she could at least do with the only thing she has in possession before she passes away.
Yeah, I was fighting pretty hard against this in our discussion, but I totally overlooked the earlier part of her monologue before the meltdown, so as much as it pains me that Sheryl thought she didn't have anything, I totally agree with this.

Spot on analysis.

Alto needs to stop taking the path of least resistance and fight for a future with Sheryl.
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Old 2008-09-07, 11:24   Link #2072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
Alto needs to stop taking the path of least resistance and fight for a future with Sheryl.
Unfortunately, at current state, he cant do anything more then just be with her... That what is most frustrating to him and us
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Old 2008-09-07, 13:00   Link #2073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightHack View Post
Yes!

That entire sequence was awesome. I agree that they went really well together...

I simply can't give you enough rep for that.
I'm sorry the quality is sub par. It's the only version of the Macross Plus Movie I had. But since I found a fellow Lucy supporter in you, I decided to take some screen shots that we could have to worship our heart-broken lady friend.

Spot on analysis Tak. Great job, speaking for the rest of Sheryl's fans and supporters.
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Old 2008-09-07, 13:15   Link #2074
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Quote:
By agreeing to support Sheryl as she sings, Alto is, in reality, indeed taking a passive stance in supporting Sheryl in the sidelines as she sings to her last breath. He promised to stay by her side as she sings, not because it was the most "logical" thing to do, but because it was the only thing he could do.

The clock is ticking away Sheryl's time, and both of them knew it.

It has also been hinted that this isn't the first time Alto had taken such a stance, when the scene lingers briefly at one shot of Alto's mother. If there is one thing that Sheryl and Alto's mother had one thing in common, it would be Alto, for he has lost a loved one once, and is now in the process of losing another loved one.
In my opinion the residence scene is mainly symbolical. It provides us with insight on both Alto and Sheryl. Especially Alto. In the tradition of Macross, every character decides on their path in life and they stick to that choice. Hikaru in SDF based his choice on this assumption and I'm guessing Alto will as well.

The problem with Alto is that he's passive throughout the series. Altos choices in life are based on the life he lead previously as a child. It was influenced by his mother early in his life. Even after he joined S.M.S his 'sky' was still far away. Up until this point in the series he did nothing to change that.

In the residence scene we get to see the picture of him as a boy standing beside his mother. It's shown right in the middle of his monologue to Sheryl. In my opinion this is the representation of his earlier situation. The same thing has happened before, when he was a boy. Back then all he could do was to let his mother stay in the residence and watch the sky. I agree that as a boy he had no other choice, still, in the current situation he has all the power to do the oposite.

The picture shows us that Alto really does not know right now that his current way of acting will lead to the same thing as in the past. At that moment he acted as that passive boy that could do nothing but to accept the facts he was faced with. It may seem cruel but in supporting her that way he's sentencing her to the same fate as his mother.

The confirmation of that are the words of Ozma. Alto is doing nothing but floating around on his current momentary emotions. Furthermore, it's indirectly implied that Alto's still a boy right now. On the contrary, Ozma is presented as a man that knows exactly what he has to do in order to protect women he loves.

It may be farfetched but I'm guessing Ozma represents Altos situation in the triangle. Ozma has a sister to get back and a woman to protect. And yes, right from the very start i couldn't see Ranka as anyone more then a sister figure for Alto

If that's the predicament of Episode 22, then I'm guessing that Frontier is heading for Alto x Sheryl ending, at least in a way. Anyway, all the possible Ranka x Alto endings don't convince me at all. Most of the current Frontier story and character development would have to be scrapped in order to do that. On the other hand the 'surprise' factor we're given in one nasty interview is ruining my mood while thinking about the ending.
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Old 2008-09-07, 13:15   Link #2075
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I still think the audience is being rolled by the SxA situation.

The triangle looks all nice and fluffily tied up right now. Alto has a "Man's contract" with Sheryl and cannot leave her without suffering ultimate dishonor.... But my gut tells me there is going to be an out and either it will end up an RxA ending with Sheryl going off to be the Galaxy Fairy once again, or a double suicide ending so popular in Japanese period plays...

In any event, I really am hoping for a second season. This series is just too good to end it all at eps 25.
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Old 2008-09-07, 13:28   Link #2076
kilroy0097
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I don't think we can even compare Sheryl and Ranka anymore versus each other. They are two completely different paths as characters.

Sheryl was an idol that helped Ranka discover herself then fell from the top because of her illness and now founded new strength turning to be a motivational singer to lift the spirits of the citizens.

Ranka started as nothing then became an idol singer and movie star and then became the savior of the people then became an anti-hero by failing and leaving and is now on the course to become a possible mediator between two races.

I'm sorry if I'm flamed for this but while Sheryl is probably the most likely heroine due to her popularity and relationship with Alto, Ranka has had more ups and downs and accomplishments with her time in the show.

So who has been the most pivotable character in the storyline? By my count it's Ranka. Regardless if she failed or not the storyline changed due to her actions the most.

Who is the most likable and popular character in the storyline? Easily this is taken by Sheryl as she is the struggling heroine who found the courage to keep on trucking.

Each has great position in the story be it good or bad at times. Each is the winner in different aspects. One simply can not hate one without acknowledging that the other had a hand in that emotion at some point in the storyline.

Alto, as I've seen it, supported both characters and was generally non observant. Which led to certain results. He has become a ping pong between two paddles (Sheryl and Ranka) and was constantly being hit back and forth. At any time he could have stopped the game but he instead kept getting hit back and forth.

So the real story is between Ranka and Sheryl. Everyone else at this point are supporting characters. Alto's action in these coming episodes will show us if he man's up and affects change.

Note: Being a support character does not mean that they do not have some effect on the story nor does it mean that they did not have substantial air time and character development. What it means that over the course of the entire story the flow did not revolve around the supporting character as a main character. At one point or another the over all storyline has flowed to the beat of Ranka and Sheryl hence I refer to them as main characters. This is my opinion and it can be viewed as wrong. I welcome such view points as discussion stems from conflicting viewpoints.
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Old 2008-09-07, 13:29   Link #2077
ippus
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Seriously :'D? I still think MF is filled with unnecessary plotholes, and information left just floating around for no reason.
It wasn't well planned enough >_> They spent too much time catering fanservice and obsessing over the romance rather than actually making a good tied up world. A lot of the characters are kind of glazed over too >_O With Luca only reaching puberty an episode ago, and everyone following Ranka like sheep.
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Old 2008-09-07, 13:43   Link #2078
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Originally Posted by kilroy0097 View Post
I'm sorry if I'm flamed for this but while Sheryl is probably the most likely heroine due to her popularity and relationship with Alto, Ranka has had more ups and downs and accomplishments with her time in the show.
Would you care to elaborate what were Ranka's ups and downs, and her accomplishments? From what I see, the ups and downs she has were "he loves me, he loves me not" moments. As far as her fame, they were given to her by the magical fold attributes in her voice, so it wasn't really an accomplishment by her own merrit. And let's not forget the "he loves me, he loves me not" attitude is the cause of her epic failure. Ranka will have accomplishments by the end of the series, but I have yet to see them thus far.

Sheryl started out at the top of her game. By Seifield's evaluators: Beautiful, yes. Mature, may be. Determined, yes. Selfless, no. She fell from stardom along with her sickness, to which were none of her own faults. But she climbed back up through her own will and determination to sing for the people's hopes despite her own hopeless future. Along the way, she also learned to be selfless and placed her trust in other people. To me, those are real ups and downs and accomplishments.

Last edited by MaiHikari; 2008-09-07 at 13:55.
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Old 2008-09-07, 13:49   Link #2079
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I agree with you kilroy

The character story is driven by the events they must face and in some cases conquer. The 'great series and storytelling' is when the writer can intervene it with the emotional development. F is like that. It's not only a story of 3 people but the whole Frontier story. Ranka is an important aspect like it or not.

Quote:
Alto, as I've seen it, supported both characters and was generally non observant. Which led to certain results. He has become a ping pong between two paddles (Sheryl and Ranka) and was constantly being hit back and forth. At any time he could have stopped the game but he instead kept getting hit back and forth.
That's the point of Alto. He's a character that right from the beginning is faced with his own lack of action. Even when he tries to do something he still ends up staying still in one place. Many people call it indecisiveness and flame him for that.

I can't bring myself to judge him like that, mainly because his passiveness is bound to turn the events of Frontier at some point. Should we call it - "becoming a man". I assume his final choice will be his choice as a man. This is my general idea about Alto's role. Even if we love one heroine there is no point in taking it out on him as it's his choice in the end
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Old 2008-09-07, 14:14   Link #2080
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Ranka's ups and downs and accomplishments, from memory so I may miss something, takes on many forms. I have included Sheryl's turning points as well. Keep in mind I am looking at story flow as well as character development in this.

1. She was put upon the path of becoming a star first by Sheryl hearing her song while she was out and about disguised. This was luck. Sheryl is at the height of her career.

2. She enters the Miss Macross contest but doesn't win. This is her first time in the public eye.

3. Her next opportunity was at the mall where she was encouraged to sing by Michael and then found courage by the chance of seeing Alto's airplane. She was discovered by Elmo. This time it was her ability that drew him to her.

3. He then he puts her on a more aggressive path to stardom. From her little gigs and recordings a media production company notices her.

4. She is able to go to the movie set where through the unlucky demise of the other actress and due to her own singing ability, she was noticed by the director. She was then cast as Mao Nome and due to her own performance ability she became a super star.

5. Due to her popularity from the movie Elmo is able to set up the first concert for her.

6. Then Gallia IV happened and her popularity goes up even more due to her view heroism. This was done by her own will to save Alto. Popularity was a secondary bonus. This is where Sheryl start her downhill travel due to her illness.

7. Ranka and Sheryl sing to Alto in the hospital. Grace discovers Ranka's fold ability in her voice. (not sure about the Grace thing here)

8. Elmo is replaced by Grace and Ranka officially becomes a weapon for the Frontier against the Vajra. This was kind of forced on her and while Ozma asks her if it's ok she really had pressure to continue by the government. Her ability proves to be powerful and the government raises her to the title of "Savior". Sheryl hit's rock bottom.

9. Her first concert is sold out from her advertisements and her recent story about her mission to Gallia IV and her new found position as "Savior". Her popularity from this concert, which is her own singing and performance ability, gives her the option to be involved in more projects. Ozma nearly dies.

10. She goes out again on her own to sing and drive the Vajra into confusion. The Frontier is in trouble and decides to do an emergency fold. Ranka is vaulted into super stardom, fame and is considered an Angel of Hope by the people. You can't get much higher than this in accomplishments. Ranka also discovers that the death of Vajra really hurts physically for her.
Edit add: At this point in her career Ranka is above Sheryl at the height of her career. She is not just an idol at this point but a savior and angel of hope. This goes beyond superstar.

11. There is a parade in her honor which she doesn't show up for because she is looking for ai-kun. She figures out why she is singing (For Alto) and does her concert at the school.

12. The Vajra attack hardcore and Ranka fails in her singing to defend Frontier. Thus begins her downward spiral in the series and with the fans. People wonder where their savior is. Sheryl sings and this starts her uphill travel from her lowest low.

13. Ranka sings one last time to draw all the Vajra to one of the islands and then they use that fold bomb to take it out. Ranka feels more pain from the destruction of Vajra. Figure out there is something important she doesn't quite know yet. She regains her memories.

14. Ranka tells everyone on TV that she is not going to sing anymore and after confessing somewhat to Alto she leaves Frontier to find out more about her own origins and the 117th fleet. She is deemed a Traitor for doing so and now is at her rock bottom.

15. Sheryl begins to rebuild her career by singing with pure emotion in her songs. Her fame is beginning to recover. She is discovered to have slight fold ability and is then promoted by the government. Elmo is her new manager. Ranka find a unique planet with the symbol of the Birdman in orbit around it. It is at this moment that Sheryl not achieves a pivotable role in the direction of the story when taking the entire future of Frontier into account.


This is all that I can remember. If I forgot something then please forgive me.
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