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Old 2008-09-08, 22:58   Link #81
Endrance
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I think it would be even better for the vizards to save the society that cast them out and take revenge on aizen
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Old 2008-09-08, 23:28   Link #82
Slayerx
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Originally Posted by Lelite View Post
Considering the fuss made about the Vasto Lorde in the beginning (Ten VL = SS destroyed, meaning taking on every shinigami in Seretei as a HOLLOW and still having the upper hand)... I think it still would be pretty cheap for a captain to be able to take on an arrancarized (as we are lead to believe that somehow increases a hollow's strength) VL single-handed, no matter how difficult the battle would be.
Eh, i don't know... i mean they did make a big deal out of the Gillian hollws when they first appeared. And yet, the person who was worried the most over them, Rukia, was apparently capable of taking out a D-roy, who was a adjucha arrancar in just one attack... They destroy gillians like just any other hollow

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Originally Posted by Langus View Post
I'm curious though, what are your thoughts on the Vizards? Is the win cheapened if it's them who beat the VL and not the Captains?
Things can either go one of two ways... Either the espada kick ass and the vizard are needed to save the captains, and actually lead to Gin, tousen and Aizen needing to fight.... OR, the captains kick the espada's ass and the vizards show up to help Aizen to "thank him" for hollowing them and giving them the chance to become vizards.

Frankly, i very much prefer the first scenario... Vizards remain as good guys, and Aizen's "perfection" is borken since he was actually wrong about not needing to lift a finger to win this battle... However, considering the odds against the espada and Aizen's serious lack of minions, the second scenario seems much more likely to happen... and it annoys me most since Aizen's evil plans are just TOO flawless, if he KNEW the vizards were gonna come to his aid.

Though granted, i do think i would like the vizards to aid the captians now and play the good guys, but then become villians in their own right, not allied with Aizen
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Old 2008-09-08, 23:43   Link #83
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Ichigo might beat the weakest VL without a real power-up in some weeks. After that, the big hype is pretty much gone imo, and a mixed team(1 senior + 1 junior captain) should be able to deal with them(VL) without too much struggle. As long as Aizen/Gin/Tousen stay in the fire cage I can't even see the need for the Vizard's aid(in case they team up with SS), simply because Ichigo will crush the big hype by beating Ulqiorra.

It sure depends on how Ichigo will manage to do it, a serious power-up is important to keep their status a bit unaffected. From the author's point of view it's a pita, he got ultrahyped, but yet outnumbered bad boys and SS's elite(Yamamoto/Ukitake/Kyourako) who had no real time in the limelight until now.

I see a cheap way to bypass all this trouble. The top 3 are still Adjuchas, therefore they are beaten(=chance for the captains to show off an please fans) but either the Vizards till take the Espada's spot as enemies or Aizen goes "hoh you defeated these pawns, me not breaking a sweat though, take a look at my REAL espada *evil laughter*" which would classify as an Asspull par excellence.

I guess this is the biggest challenge for Kubo-san as an author.
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Old 2008-09-09, 02:17   Link #84
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Originally Posted by Langus View Post
That's being a bit harsh don't you think?

If the captains beat the top 3 espada (correction, if ole Yamma, Ukitake and Shinsui beat the top 3 espada) in incredibly difficult fights that require them to use every bit of power they possess (which they haven't even shown at all yet) I think it'd be pretty awesome. It wouldn't be a cheap cop out unless someone like Soi Fon killed their ass. Then I might agree with you
Well VL got built up saying that even without being arrancarised (is that the word) they could defeat a normal, now if becoming an arrancar lifts their potential roof surely they should beat captains with ease?
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Old 2008-09-09, 03:02   Link #85
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I am with Kenshin. As long as the fights aren't Cheesy I don't see any reason why they cannot beat the top....even if I hope they can't. I want the Viz to show up and save their asses so they can have the shitface for wanting to kill them. Personally I think the fans over hyped the Arrancar to such heights it hurts when they come crashing down (especially in speedos with pubes and they aren't even attractive)
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Old 2008-09-09, 05:37   Link #86
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GD, this sh!t is just stupid. SS won't lose, probably none of them will even die in the end. The arrancar are just disposable cause SS needs to kill something to look good.
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Old 2008-09-09, 06:39   Link #87
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Why must someone die? Bleach has been good without deaths. How come greatness is measured by body count?
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Old 2008-09-09, 07:23   Link #88
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Yeh true although i wouldnt care if omaeda and hinamori get taken out
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Old 2008-09-09, 07:56   Link #89
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Quote:
... and Aizen's "perfection" is borken since he was actually wrong about not needing to lift a finger to win this battle
I think that won't happen.
The series is determined to show the pinnale of strength which Aizen wants to reach, thus Zero Division, the kings dimension.

I definitely think that this will be shown, and other than Aizen eventually gets there, I cannot imagine another reason why they would go there...

Also, I mean, if you really think about it then either there are more enemies we don't know about yet or the ones we know are even stronger then we thought...

because on our side we have: Ichigo, Inoue, Sado, Ishida
AND whole SS AND the vaizards

on top of that, to conclude the series there are more characters whose strength must be revealed:
Kurosaki Isshin, Urahara, Yoruichi, Ishida Ryuuken
and of course Zero division, which should be on our side, in a battle SS vs hollows...

so in numbers, that we know, we have got a total of 6 enemies plus fraccion (excluding ulquiorra and Yami [where the hell is he anyway])
and a army on our side D=
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Old 2008-09-09, 08:28   Link #90
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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
Why must someone die? Bleach has been good without deaths. How come greatness is measured by body count?
Greatness has always been measured by body count

But anyway, someone must die because Bleach is rather boring otherwise in terms of its plot. We can alrdy predict what will happen - VCs kiill all the arrancar, Espada are taken down by the Captains (perhaps Ukitake or someone may get injured but no one will die). Meanwhile, Ichigo gets beaten up by Ulq, then his friends help him and inspire him and all, and he some how against all odds defeats Ulq, then goes to the living world with his gang and the 4 Captains, OR the whole Hueco Group stay in Hueco but open one portal to the living world which can last only long enough for one person to go through it. Ichigo is obviously chosen (even though the one of the Captains is probably the more logically choice) and after some short goodbyes and more inspirational stuff, he ends up in the living world where the Captains (good and bad) are pretty much on a level playing field even though they outnumber the baddies (perhaps Yoruichi, Kisuke and the Vaizards, will be nice to see all their masks, will help too) but Aizen is some godlike freak. So anyway, they fight, more get injured and unable to battle, then when all hope seems to be lost, Ichigo and co discover a loophole in Aizen's grand plan. Ichigo exploits it and saves the universe.

What would be nice and interesting and shocking to read would be Ulq kills Ichigo, Inoue goes crazy and destroys the universe. Or the Vaizards turn up to help AIZEN instead of Soul Society, which they very well may do judging by what Shinji said in the last Pendulum. But thats a small twist, nothing really THAT major, since Soul Society may still somehow be able to defeat the combined forces of Aizen, Gin, Tousen and the Vaizards. A cooler version would be if the Vaizards DO join Aizen and Aizen pwns SS, makes the Key, kills the Soul King and rules the world. Basically anything that follows logic would be interesting.

Last edited by Konpachi; 2008-09-18 at 03:37.
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Old 2008-09-09, 09:21   Link #91
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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
The questio nwould be: Who are the good guys?
The SS doesn't have to be good or likable, they just have to do their job, and they did it for quite a while now. As long as the balance in the universe remains, everything is fine, it's their only purpose"." Aizen isn't the selfless and sympathetic rebel/revolutionist, he is the one who endangers the whole universe by taking the crown
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Old 2008-09-09, 11:09   Link #92
Langus
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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
Why must someone die? Bleach has been good without deaths. How come greatness is measured by body count?
OD! Good to see you back in action

Bleach needs SOME deaths to happen so we remain emotionally invested in the fate of the characters.

I'm not sure about the rest of you, but currently I'm reading Bleach each week out of habit and an eventual desire to see what happens in the end. There is no edge of my seat 'oh my god I gotta read it!' pull happening at the moment and there hasn't been for a while. If you think there is a chance that one of your favourite characters will die the next week, or even just one of the main characters, there is a really good chance you are going to make DAMN sure you pick a copy up the next week.

If they go through this entire war and not a single goodie dies it's pretty cheap don't you think? I know that SS isn't 'human' per se, but that doesn't mean they should be infallible beings. How are we as readers supposed to identify with them then? There should be the risk of death at every turn, given that this is a war, and to make the risk believable and legitimate, someone important (but not from Ichigo's nakama pack, obviously) has to go.

But that's just me.
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Old 2008-09-10, 18:22   Link #93
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Originally Posted by Ryuuken View Post
well many of the present taichous know the vaizards, since they were all in the lead of gotei 13

and, nobody defeats kyouraku shunsui & ukitake juushiro... I consider them upper class strength.
in short: a battle in which either kyouraku or ukitake gives all he has, that battle would be of such a great level that we haven't yet in all bleach seen anything like it.
of course that also applies to other characters but, I think SS taichous can defeat the espada...
if the SS captains can defeat the espada, then what was the point of aizen leaving, going to hueco, starting his own mini SS just to get them all killed off..., honestly with SS's rate, its good to see beatdown. and yeah they all know the vizard but that would make it so muhc better, they have a grudge on both sides .... aly the beatdown on everyone!!! and Shunsui and Ukitake's power must take a back seat when it coems to saving the bleach coolness...(i.e., SS getting their aSS kicked)
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Old 2008-09-11, 01:09   Link #94
BleachOD
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Originally Posted by Langus View Post
OD! Good to see you back in action

Bleach needs SOME deaths to happen so we remain emotionally invested in the fate of the characters.

.
Next you will be wearing a Gin avatar... (Sorry Moving Fire I couldn't resist)

Funny I want to see only the characters I am not emotionally invested in die. Then I wouldn't mind...
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