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View Poll Results: Do you like Orihime?
I liked her before... 50 5.66%
I love her! 208 23.53%
I like her. 190 21.49%
Don't really like her, don't really hate her. 190 21.49%
I dislike her.. 87 9.84%
I HATE HER. 143 16.18%
Other. 16 1.81%
Voters: 884. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-09-15, 14:56   Link #1001
BleachOD
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Er...No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Herrera View Post




So you hate her because she looks pathetic?
That's not what I said. I said my mother thinks that the way she's drawn she looks pathetic.

Meaning: Her character design screams "I HAVE REALLY LOW SELF ESTEEM" She thought he was kind of clever for allowing you to see it in her without her having to open her mouth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Herrera View Post
"Now she's Ugly to me...so I hate her!"
The short way:

I didn't mean her physical appearance. I meant her personality. It's hard to find her endearing because I hate what she stands for.

The word "Cute" doesn't always describe appearance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Herrera View Post
that was harsh
I don't think so... (It's not like she can hear it or see it. *Shrugs*)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Herrera View Post
that doesn't make me hate or like her.
What's the key word in that sentence? Me. I was talking about me not you.





Quote:
Originally Posted by DjTrizz View Post
quick reply:

friend and acquaintance can go hand in hand, Orihime may not be a close friend like Tatsuki or Rukia, but she is a friend nonetheless, and she's not a stalker, couldn't trump up enough evidence to prove it to me
What is your exact definition of friendship?
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Old 2008-09-15, 15:28   Link #1002
Amirali
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Quote:
She used to be cute (Mom commented yesterday as I was watching an anime re-run that they way her eyes are drawn. She looks pathetic, and she could see 0 self esteem a mile a way. She thought KT was really clever to be able to show that)
The anime messes her up, now and again. But she's been well drawn in the recent chapters, especially her eye-shmex scenes with Ulqi. When it comes to being drawn with 0 self-esteem in anime.......well, I'll take your word for it. There are no objective criteria on which we could discuss whether she "looks" pathetic.

Last edited by Amirali; 2008-09-15 at 16:28.
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Old 2008-09-15, 15:56   Link #1003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debbiechan View Post
Trying to remember when I use Latin --it's not one of my languages and I suck at Latin--but yes, I will admit to the worst human follibles such as putting down other people and calling people to task when I think they're wrong Sometimes I unintentionally demean other people; for that, I always apologize, I usually mean to demean their arguments.
Just a bad joke on my part, but:

Quote:
The latest in a series of ad hominem and straw man fallacies.
There. And you are forgiven.

Quote:
My point was that bashing shippers and invalidating their arguments by saying "oh they're just threatened" is a no-no. That's avoiding discourse and getting personal. You really can't (and shouldn't) put down real people or groups of people in order to defend your argument about fictional people in a manga.
That was actually a theory I read on another forum. I found it interesting and saved it way back. Meant to edit out the generalization and offer it up for rebuttal and scrutiny but left it untouched due to distractions. I'd have to agree with you though. Read my previous thoughts to understand my point of view, which I think you overlooked and so came the rage.

Quote:
So you can't say that people who argue against a particular ship have one motive and motive alone: they are threatened by the other ship and have some serious psychological problem that keeps them from being happily entertained by just enjoying their own favorite ships.

Some people (and again, I take OD as an example) just seem to like shipping debate the way some people like football. And some people ENJOY hating Orihime.
That never bothered me. She's one of my favorite characters but I know the hate expressed here can't hurt her; what CAN hurt, though, is hate is expressed at real people and real fans.
I'm not saying people have a psychological problem, nor am I saying it's a core motive behind character hate. I'm proposing it plays a part in judgement and it's basic human instinct. Even the most sophisticated form cozy in-groups which view outsiders skeptically. Like on Bleach Asylum, I do think there's a distinguishing factor between the two camps and tendancies that identify each. Think, if there were no rules or regulations, how long would it last until all out verbal warfare broke out there? Order can barely be maintained here and this is one of the most strictly regulated anime forums on the net - to paraphrase monir. Many people see it as a competition, who's right and who's wrong. Generally though members visit the fanclubs and debate threads seeking reassurance or validity. In other words your nuerons will have gone through quite a work out whilst attempting to read a few pages of the opposing ships fanclub and attempting to understand their thought process or perception. However reading double or triple that amount of projected thought is as easy as pie when it comes to your own ship. Eventually one might stop trying, like Ichigo&Rukia. Or simply struggles to see the logic in opposing arguments, like OD. Of course I'd have to do a full out scientific study to describe it fully, but like you said there are many different people with many different circumstances. I believe there's probably is a fun correlation somewhere there.

Oh and did you know, in football there are riots which result in death. Not a rare thing. So you'd be suprised how vicous such trivial things can get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
She really doesn't know Ichigo personality. She is not intimate with him enough. Intimacy is not just about sex, or fornication.. Just because you talk to a person every time you see them stalker alert
It does not mean you know them.
I think she is intimate, and maybe even he with her. I mean going through life/death experiences together can develop intimacy.

Quote:
They lack intimacy.Like you said she could find out ...some things that turn her off For her to swear five lifetimes to someone she doesn't really know or have a real relationship is not good.
I partially agree. What they haven't had is a deep conversation where they truly expressed themselves. Something that seriously lacks in their relationship.
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Old 2008-09-15, 16:10   Link #1004
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Quote:
What is your exact definition of friendship?
I couldn't put it in words honestly. I have quite a few friends, but out of all of them, there's 4-5 of them that I can absolutely trust. Over time I have learned to pick my friends wisely, those who I found to be selfish, self serving dogs, I don't interact w/ them outside of where I meet them, i.e. work. I would think Ichigo would be able to tell who his friends really are, and he happens to have quite a few.
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Old 2008-09-15, 16:22   Link #1005
BleachOD
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Originally Posted by DjTrizz View Post
I couldn't put it in words honestly. I have quite a few friends, but out of all of them, there's 4-5 of them that I can absolutely trust. Over time I have learned to pick my friends wisely, those who I found to be selfish, self serving dogs, I don't interact w/ them outside of where I meet them, i.e. work. I would think Ichigo would be able to tell who his friends really are, and he happens to have quite a few.
Ok let me ask you something. We have argued and joked around. I don't dislike you and I don't think you dislike me. If I saw someone seriously flaming you. I would say something even if it gets me banned again. Do you think we are friends or acquaintances?

@Amir and Sensei the same applies to you guys. Tell me if you think we are friends or acquaintances? (Yes there is a point to this)
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Old 2008-09-15, 16:39   Link #1006
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Ok, first some of you say she's intended to be the person to explain to the audience who Ichigo is (meaning, knowing him best), now she doesn't know him at all... which is it? Or is it conveniently both depending on the argument you're trying to make?

Another thing... can Rukia really be called a friend? I mean... have they ever done anything friend related? like hang out? shoot the shit? watch movies? joke about things? Laugh together? go to concerts? I mean the only thing they do whenever they're together is kill things, or talking about killing things. And theres been several scenes where when rukia is in the house with Ichigo, she just hides away in the closet while Ichigo sits and do his homework or read a magazine... They seem like work buddies to me or "comrade" for an alternative word. Where they only have something to talk about when they're at work, i.e. killing things.
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Old 2008-09-15, 16:43   Link #1007
Mr. DJ
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what the crap is all that?

Quote:
Ok let me ask you something. We have argued and joked around. I don't dislike you and I don't think you dislike me. If I saw someone seriously flaming you. I would say something even if it gets me banned again. Do you think we are friends or acquaintances?
Forums bring a new dimension to friendship, I could probably call you a friend cause we do interact quite often here on the forums. I feel like I'm contradicting myself because of word fumble...

Last edited by Mr. DJ; 2008-09-15 at 17:01.
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Old 2008-09-15, 16:51   Link #1008
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I'm not touching that... trying to give me a virus?
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Old 2008-09-15, 17:06   Link #1009
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakashi View Post

*Wonders if discussing Orihime's feelings for Ichigo crosses into shipper territory. If so, apologies, excuse this monir.*
Better not go into that territory considering some of the vocal-ones won't be able to express themselves without delving further into the shipping. I'm sure you can already see some pattern on shipping emerging from few posts followed immediately, but those posts aren't gone yet because of the lovely exchange between you and Debbiechan that is taking place in the thread. Before you two misunderstand, I'm not egging on. I simply can identify some of the things expressed in both of your posts, but always saddened to see how few share those line of thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
*It shouldn't...
(for some it is part of the reason they hate her. How many people said that's why? Not being able to discuss them just makes this a pointless hate thread. *Again;No Beef*) .
Are you not understanding what I've said to you earlier? I suppose I was being vague. You will have to make do discussing her character without bringing pairing/Ichigo's-involvement/the-trigger-for-shipping on the table. In this case, I don't see you (and few others) as one of the posters who can share his/her views objectively without inciting or agitating the other side of the argument. Your particular stance and how you choose to word your post only make it more difficult for the other side to read what you are trying to express.

Yes, I agree that it (discussing the relationship between the two is one way to explore each of these characters) shouldn't be an issue, but it has/does become an issue for a lot of you fans... so stop bringing the subject every so often.
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Old 2008-09-15, 18:00   Link #1010
BleachOD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
.


Are you not understanding what I've said to you earlier? I suppose I was being vague. You will have to make do discussing her character without bringing pairing/Ichigo's-involvement/the-trigger-for-shipping on the table. In this case, I don't see you (and few others) as one of the posters who can share his/her views objectively without inciting or agitating the other side of the argument. Your particular stance and how you choose to word your post only make it more difficult for the other side to read what you are trying to express.

Yes, I agree that it (discussing the relationship between the two is one way to explore each of these characters) shouldn't be an issue, but it has/does become an issue for a lot of you fans... so stop bringing the subject every so often.
Am I allowed to answer without you taking it the wrong way?

It's hard not to. It keeps coming up. It's part of my reason for hating her. People ask me about it. I am not being stern. I am not being sarcastic but you can't see me. You know some sentence in english that could be insulting and not at the same time. It depends on the person. You are the only one who seems to think I am doing it all the time.

Haven't you seen many people use me as an example? Most of them say they respect my POV. You know a lot say they do because of how I present it. If I was total bitch do you think they would be saying that? Did you notice that people actually seem to like me? Did you know I get reps because of how I present my views? Do you know people liked me enough to rep me after this last ban and my reps got higher? *Thanks guys!*

She doesn't understand because she obviously haven't read many of my post prior or she'd now how I meant it.

I have said the same reasons oh so many times. Some users even counted the times I patiently explained and even if they don't agree find my reasons acceptable. It's only those who don't know my position because they didn't read all of my posts that take offense to what I said.

This a hate thread do you really think nice comments are to be expected?

If person is angered at what I said how come the fault lies with me and not them? It's my fault ? I am talking about a 2-D character it's me who is getting the flack for it. Why are you blaming me for that?

Why is it I can't express my opinion because someone might get mad? So they voice their displeasure and it's my fault because what I think is not something they want to hear or see. So... Someone attacks me for my POV .

because they aren't familiar with me or just disagree ...I made them attack me?
Think about how that sounds...


If they don't understand me. how come it can't just be the case... That they just didn't understand me? How is that my fault? Do you realize that you could be wrong about me because you said so yourself you have never read more than four lines?

I find most people who take offense are people who don't know me. The ones who do discuss, debate it or tease me about it.

To answer the rest of your query...

You can't separate Ichigo or shipping from Orihime. It's a part of her. Several users have cited her feelings for him as a reason why. It's part of my reasons for hating her except it's not a matter of is Rukia or Orihime better for Ichigo or not. It's about how I believe they affect her negatively. People's perception of her feelings for Ichigo affects how see her.

And it keeps coming up!!

Why is the question " What's with all this Orihime hate?" being asked if I am not allowed to answer honestly? If we can't explore her relationships with the other characters since it's part of the hate ... If no one is then what the purpose of this thread?
You don't think it's an issue worth discussing, but others do. that is why it keeps coming up.

Would you rather I just posted "I hate her I hope she dies!" and elaborate no further?


Why are you singling me out? I am not the only one who commented on shipping. (Even you said "Several users")Sensei is actually the one who brought it back up yet you are deleting only me or admonishing only me. I have seen evidence of shipping all around this forum and all over a certain one. Yet it's only me you have the problem with. You are still irritated with me over some things I said huh? I am not holding a grudge why are you?



Ain't that a bitch that's another ban...
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Old 2008-09-15, 18:41   Link #1011
CMHerrera
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
Er...No.

That's not what I said. I said my mother thinks that the way she's drawn she looks pathetic.
I know what your mom said but you agree with her right?

Quote:
Meaning: Her character design screams "I HAVE REALLY LOW SELF ESTEEM" She thought he was kind of clever for allowing you to see it in her without her having to open her mouth.
I never really thought that intell she got jealous of Rukia. She doesn't look like she can get mad easilly.

Quote:
The short way:

I didn't mean her physical appearance. I meant her personality. It's hard to find her endearing because I hate what she stands for.

The word "Cute" doesn't always describe appearance.
I don't think shes "cute" or "ugly" (meaning both ways). I see Orhime as a girl that gain abilites for a reason and an allie to Ichigo.

Quote:
I don't think so... (It's not like she can hear it or see it. *Shrugs*)
but we people can. and who knows she might be watching

Quote:
What's the key word in that sentence? Me. I was talking about me not you.
I was saying what I think

Quote:
What is your exact definition of friendship?
A person who understands you and that has a strong bond with you some how
. And who you get a long with.
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Old 2008-09-15, 18:50   Link #1012
Langus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Another thing... can Rukia really be called a friend? I mean... have they ever done anything friend related? like hang out? shoot the shit? watch movies? joke about things? Laugh together? go to concerts? I mean the only thing they do whenever they're together is kill things, or talking about killing things. And theres been several scenes where when rukia is in the house with Ichigo, she just hides away in the closet while Ichigo sits and do his homework or read a magazine... They seem like work buddies to me or "comrade" for an alternative word. Where they only have something to talk about when they're at work, i.e. killing things.
Sure they hang out. How often is she chillin' in his room talking to him. What about the Don Kanojie (too lazy to look up the spelling) event? They went as friends didn't they? Sure the majority of their time is spent killing things and talking about killing things but hey, everyone's gotta have a hobby right? Killing hollows is theirs - it's what they share in common which, if I'm not mistaken, is something friendships are built upon (common interests?). They both get off on it so leave 'em to it I say!

Edit: BleachOD - I'll be your friend *grins*
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Old 2008-09-15, 19:25   Link #1013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finalfantasyfan55 View Post
Well you never know, Shirley from Code Geass never let Lelouch go. Her love for him was deeper than other of his love interests in the series!
okay yeah, so? This isn't Code Geass it's Bleach. You shouldn't compare the two anime unless they were drawn and created by the same person. If Code Greass was by Tite then maybe you could compare the two.

Quote:
Anyways, I thought Orihime's character development was her self worth and confidence, not getting over Ichigo? I don't think he makes her weak at all, he's like her motivation to get stronger or improve herself so she can she's worthy of being his girlfriend.
Yeah I guess... Orihime's self development was more toward her self. It didn't really have much to do with Ichigo. The only really part it had to do with him was she needed to be less dependent on him. The rest was promises to herself so she could be a better person.


Quote:
IchiRuki happening would be okay I guess...But I'm not a fan of two leads ending up with each other...it just doesn't seem fair to me, how the side character always loses. >_<
Side characters don't really loose. The just grow and develop more. i'm not much of a fan when it come to lead characters getting together either but with Ichiruki I can just see in happen (plus they're are great together!- ignore that part.)
Besides Ichigo was designed to look good next to Rukia. (Tite changed his hair color from black to orange since rukia already had dark hair)
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Old 2008-09-15, 19:45   Link #1014
ruote
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Orihime is just words… speeches she never really put into actions…
Like this one “The next time we meet I won't look to you for help, Kurosaki-kun, I'll be able to fight on my own.”
And we all know what happened during ichi-grim fight.
If the 5 lifetimes speech won’t happen… it’s not really something new.
That’s why, her speeches doesn’t make me ‘wow’.
i need actions... actions


Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post

Another thing... can Rukia really be called a friend? I mean... have they ever done anything friend related? like hang out? shoot the shit? watch movies? joke about things? Laugh together? go to concerts? I mean the only thing they do whenever they're together is kill things, or talking about killing things. And theres been several scenes where when rukia is in the house with Ichigo, she just hides away in the closet while Ichigo sits and do his homework or read a magazine... They seem like work buddies to me or "comrade" for an alternative word. Where they only have something to talk about when they're at work, i.e. killing things.

'Mermories in the rain' mini arc... don't forget about that.
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Old 2008-09-15, 19:49   Link #1015
BleachOD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Herrera View Post
I know what your mom said but you agree with her right?
Actually I never thought about it. Now that she's pointed it out... yeah I think she's right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Herrera View Post
I don't think shes "cute" or "ugly" (meaning both ways). I see Orhime as a girl that gain abilites for a reason and an allie to Ichigo.
That's cool. However I do find her ugly. Personality wise that is. I don't like it so it makes me see her as ugly when I once thought she was cute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Herrera View Post

but we people can. and who knows she might be watching

...I needed that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Herrera View Post
I was saying what I think
I know you were. You keep saying but "I don't think" and finding fault with my beliefs because they aren't the same as yours. What I am saying is...You may think that way about her. I think differently that is all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Herrera View Post
A person who understands you and that has a strong bond with you some how
. And who you get a long with.
I wish I could really respond to that. Gag order prevents me from doing so...

@Langus...Aww I just love you! I wish I could just hold you to my bosom. *Drown you with them really*
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Old 2008-09-15, 19:52   Link #1016
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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
@Langus...Aww I just love you! I wish I could just hold you to my bosom. *Drown you with them really*
You won't hear any complaints from me
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Old 2008-09-15, 20:09   Link #1017
monir
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That took a while to write a response. Doing 10 things all at once isn't easy. Apologies ahead for this off-topic, but this needs to be done.




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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post

Why are you singling me out?
Now you are asking a good question. Why didn't you object when I was "singling" Hyashi Takara out? On the contrary, you almost seem to relish the fact that I called him out. I hope the irony isn't lost here.

Quote:
I am not the only one who commented on shipping. (Even you said "Several users")Sensei is actually the one who brought it back up yet you are deleting only me or admonishing only me.
Yes, I know that you weren't the only one "commented on shipping." And as I've said couple of times, the reason I've looked the other way because there was an interesting conversation going on which explored the rationale behind why/how argument such as shipping forms opinion. Your posts and others were necessary to keep for the sake of consistency, so those good reads do not get removed as well for exploring the topic "shipping" rather than engaging in shipping. Do you see what I'm trying to say?

Quote:
I have seen evidence of shipping all around this forum and all over a certain one. Yet it's only me you have the problem with. You are still irritated with me over some things I said huh? I am not holding a grudge why are you?
You do make too many assumption. Trust me, I'm not holding any grudges, but I'm sure you are convinced otherwise.

Quote:
Ain't that a bitch that's another ban...
Hmmm... So the line of thinking here is that if I ban you now, it will show the world how unfair I am. So that means, I can't ban you now for the sake of my own, glorious image. Reverse psychology. Clever!

No, you won't be banned for this post. I started this particular off-topic, so naturally I was expecting you to respond as well. Visitor messages have failed to make you understand my position. Private messaging has failed as well. So I figured, I should explore the last route as well: the open forum. Unfortunately, you are seriously stuck in the notion that you are misunderstood. You are a victim of unfair play. Perhaps you are, but surely you can reexamine yourself how you come to sound/read to have posters react to you in such a manner.

Quote:
To answer the rest of your query...

You can't separate Ichigo or shipping from Orihime.
Yes, I know. I've acknowledged as such. I've also said few posters are incapable of exploring the characteristic of those respective personality without making it a "shipping" issue. Hence, thread such as Ichigo-Orihime vs. Ichigo-Rukia is closed. It is a preemptive measure taken to prevent another thread that needs to be closed down because there are one too many people who have diluted a thread with poor behaviors that stemmed from glorious shipping.

Quote:
Did you notice that people actually seem to like me?
I do, actually. Probably that's why I was inspired to explain to you so many times why a post of yours is getting deleted, why you are getting an infraction, and why I continue to respond to you in follow up posts. Either way, this is what I'm telling you: Do not bring shipping into any topic. If you are incapable of posting without making a connection to "shipping", then do not post. Otherwise, you will be banned.

Feel free to take the above however you like, but it won't change my stance on the no-shipping policy until I've gathered enough evidence that people can actually ship without stepping on each others toe. This thread is a venue to find such evidence. Until then......
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Old 2008-09-15, 20:31   Link #1018
kagato3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langus View Post
Sure they hang out. How often is she chillin' in his room talking to him. What about the Don Kanojie (too lazy to look up the spelling) event? They went as friends didn't they? Sure the majority of their time is spent killing things and talking about killing things but hey, everyone's gotta have a hobby right? Killing hollows is theirs - it's what they share in common which, if I'm not mistaken, is something friendships are built upon (common interests?). They both get off on it so leave 'em to it I say!

Edit: BleachOD - I'll be your friend *grins*
Every time we see them, as far as I can remember, in the room they are talking about "work" first and formost. And Ichigo and Rukia did not go to the Don's event as friends, Rukia went with Ichigo's friends, not him as he had told everyone that he wasn't comeing, and in less then 3 panels when he did show up with his family, they were talking about the "job" again. The one time he does some what open up to her about his mothers death is because she kept badgering him on about how she was killed and if a hollow did it. Kon even points out that up to that point it's always been hollow this and hollow that and how she'll lose friends if she only thinks of work.

But I'm not saying that they aren't friends, as the both clearly admit that they at least see each other as such but the only thing they ever seem to talk about is work. Where as Ichigo has a more normal relationship with Orihime, Chad and his other friends to a growing lesser extent since they aren't in on the secret. Orihime seems to be Rukia's closest friend right now.
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Old 2008-09-15, 20:37   Link #1019
Endrance
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara
Another thing... can Rukia really be called a friend? I mean... have they ever done anything friend related? like hang out? shoot the shit? watch movies? joke about things? Laugh together? go to concerts? I mean the only thing they do whenever they're together is kill things, or talking about killing things. And theres been several scenes where when rukia is in the house with Ichigo, she just hides away in the closet while Ichigo sits and do his homework or read a magazine... They seem like work buddies to me or "comrade" for an alternative word. Where they only have something to talk about when they're at work, i.e. killing things.
The same can be said for Orihime...they dont hang out at all and before she got her abilities it wasnt like they were hanging out...they saw each other at school and barely talked to each other then...only when she got her powers did they start associating with each other.....Changing the subject The thing about Orihime that really bugs me besides her potential and stuff is the fact that i like ichigo i wish she would just move on already. I found her character so much more interesting before she was stalking ichigo. And when i look back she even seemed to be more confident and stronger before she got involved with him
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Old 2008-09-15, 20:40   Link #1020
HayashiTakara
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I'm gonna go OT for a second here...

@Endrance, OMFG!! Love your Avatar!!!!

Edit:

Also, saying Orihime "changed" is completely false, She has always been this way. She's been bottling it up for so long that it finally began to pour out. Because she was more or less inconsequential in the beginning, she was majorly ignored and only her silly anctics were noticed. Please go back and actually pay attention to her character from the beginning.
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