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Old 2008-09-21, 15:22   Link #10441
Velden
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Originally Posted by Dilla View Post
If Nunnally completely overcame Geass, then she should also remember the entire process during her mother assassination; her being planted under her dead mother and such.
I donīt think so. What Nunnaly overcame was the false experience of seeing her mother die in front of her. If thatīs the case the geass could still be working, she could still be ignoring the fact she was geassed and brainwashed in the first place.
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Old 2008-09-21, 15:24   Link #10442
prototype_sky
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Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
1) Lunamaria hasn't red hair.
Are you color blind http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunamaria_Hawke
They have the exact red hue hair color

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Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
2) Lunamaria was an Athrun fangirl, but this have been totally erase in special edition; Kallen was a Zero fangirl who fell in love with the man who is hiding behind the mask.
Erased How?

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Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
3) Lunamaria hook up with Shinn; Kallen is teaming with Gino to take Lelouch and Suzaku down.
Lunamaria and Shinn did gang up and Athrun if I remeber correctly

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Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
4) Lunamaria wasn't in love with Athrun ; Kallen is with Lelouch.
Nothing says IUV like crushing your Boyfriend
So yeah your right they both had crushes

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Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
Killbethy : No death flag to Kallen, her song is affirming that she is going to live on, taking Lelouch's share with her. And Lelouch's live on to her was pretty much of a big live flag...And Kallen has reasons to fight. She has her enemy and wants to defend her country and it people -_-'
Why isn't she with Xingke securing the officials. Lulu is barely a threat at this point

I am speculating that she'll end up like Luna
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Old 2008-09-21, 15:28   Link #10443
pingva
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Originally Posted by prototype_sky View Post
Are you color blind http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunamaria_Hawke
They have the exact red hue hair color


Erased How?


Lunamaria and Shinn did gang up and Athrun if I remeber correctly


Nothing says IUV like crushing your Boyfriend
So yeah your right they both had crushes


Why isn't she with Xingke securing the officials. Lulu is barely a threat at this point

I am speculating that she'll end up like Luna
You should mention that in the end she will understand what Lelouch has done.
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Old 2008-09-21, 15:32   Link #10444
Amaterasu Gate
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Originally Posted by pingva View Post
You should mention that in the end she will understand what Lelouch has done.
At this point that's all Kallen fans really care about, forget about Kalulu its time to move on
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Old 2008-09-21, 15:33   Link #10445
azziz
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Originally Posted by Koshimizu View Post
Sorry. I forget about tenses sometimes. ;_; (There's no tense in my mother language.)

It's...
All of these might have been paving the path to finding the "truth".
your mother language is no english?And you even know Japanese?Koshimizu what are you?A mysterious being who know every spoiler about code geass and post only to enlighten us,mere mortal;do you even truly exist?
(i have no mother language who would aknowlwedge me but it is no english,obviously).
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Old 2008-09-21, 15:37   Link #10446
Koshimizu
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
Well according to Jeremiah, he needed them to 'maintain the bridgehead in order for his Majesty's plan to succeed.' Since he already brought Suzaku on board the only one left was Jeremiah to keep the BK back while he made his move to check Schneizel, and perhaps make way for Zero Requiem to take effect. At this point, the focus has been and should be Zero Requiem now for Lelouch.
While we're at it, there's something I noticed...
In this line, Jeremiah said "kakka (閣下, His Excellency)" instead of "heika (陛下, His Majesty)".
I can accept "His Highness" if it's a slip of tongue. But "His Excellency" is just for common people with high status!

I noticed it right away because I loved the way he says heika. This really surprised me since Jeremiah is the first person to address Lelouch as "Your Majesty" and he's been sticking to it (or Lelouch-sama) since.

Is this a sign of Lelouch switching from "Lelouch vi Britannia" (Emperor) to "Zero" (commoner)?
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Old 2008-09-21, 15:39   Link #10447
youngde
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Originally Posted by Koshimizu View Post
Kallen's song, though, would fit if you put "Naoto" in there. (Both the walk your path and live for you part.)
If she decides to walk a different path from Lelouch's, it'd make sense for her to seek Naoto's dreams by herself.
I wouldn't argue that. I actually had the same thought myself, but it seems a little odd that so much of her character development would focus around Lelouch this season and then have her character song about her brother (I think he was only briefly mentioned 3 times).

I mean, her first character song was all about her devotion (and borderline love) for Zero.
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Old 2008-09-21, 15:52   Link #10448
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Originally Posted by vio5555 View Post
I'm going to bite on this, since I think this is going to be the whole point to the final episode.

Everything in the spoilers, Kallen's line and song lyrics point to her defeating Suzaku in order to speak to Lelouch and then saying goodbye to Lelouch in some sense forever (most likely through his disappearance; I'm highly doubtful that he dies).

The reason this makes sense from what we've just seen of Nunally overcoming it, so possibly Kallen may be able to beat Suzaku's live command which is hinted at by the whole "goodbye Suzaku/Lelouch" spoilers...

Also, everything pointed to Lelouch needing to remove Nunally which was the Nunally that he and Suzaku presumed was almost totally manipulated by Schneizel. However, the current Nunally is acting of her own will since she did overcome the geass. She's not merely a piece in the Schneizel vs. Lelouch game anymore.

The biggest question mark then is what will happen this time versus the last time on the battleship when he was Zero. The first time Lelouch came to speak to Nunally under the fake pretense, he didn't want to twist her will. Is he still going to feel the same way now that there are no more pretenses, and she clearly sees him and speaks of her own will?

Also, her whole ploy here is exactly the same as when Schneizel was willing to surrender victory to Zero, and he was unwilling to take it. She's offering him the checkmate by allowing him to geass her and bend her will, just as Schneizel offered Zero the king.

If this Lelouch is clearly different from the Zero that faced Schneizel and Nunally in those previous situations, then he should be willing to bend Nunally's will just as he bent Schneizel's will. But of course, it's Nunally, so how does he save her and not bend her will to his own at the same time. Quite the conundrum if he's trying to cast himself as the Lelouch of the future and not the Lelouch of the present or the Zero of the past. Maybe he realizes that Nunally is the future for humanity in that she can overcome her past without needing Geass.

One final thing, somehow Lelouch and Nunally have to escape Damocles in order to survive (if he really does get to see C.C. again). This means that if Kallen defeats Suzaku, then she would have to save both Nunally and Lelouch, yet it seems like her line suggests that she leaves Lelouch after saying it.

However, if it is a draw somehow, then Suzaku can save Lelouch and Kallen can save Nunally. Perhaps, during the battle Damocles starts falling apart or something, who knows. Either way, I think everything points to Kallen confronting Lelouch after the battle with Suzaku which is troublesome for Suzaku especially with his whole sayonara bit.

The Damocles is starting to remind me of Laputa - Castle in the Sky >_>
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Old 2008-09-21, 16:01   Link #10449
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Originally Posted by Ruezu View Post
The Damocles is starting to remind me of Laputa - Castle in the Sky >_>
I totally can see a garden floating in space as the only remains of Damocles by the end of Turn 25.
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Old 2008-09-21, 16:17   Link #10450
Franckisted
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You're all assuming that nunally has overcome her geass of her own free will.

But what if... she just regain it from Charles death.
But well, since her eyes were close since 10 years ago so it's only normal to think that Charles death wasn't the "trigger" , but that her wanting to retrieve teh button to put an end to "onii-sama sins" is that trigger.

So here... her "will" (As in "i want to see where the button is so baaaadly") takes over and she open her eyes (to see where teh button is), take teh button, walk (?) on her chair, and wait for Lelouch to make her little plan of opening her eyes in front of him! (What a little devil ^^ )

Remember... Anya (also geassed by Charles) have her memory returned.

So maybe it's Charles death.


In the episode, Lelouch is just making a gess about how nunnally opened her eyes when he tell "did she overcame his(charles) geass?".

Will know in next episode... but i don't really think that geass still work after the death of the caster.
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Old 2008-09-21, 16:21   Link #10451
bran
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Originally Posted by Franckisted View Post
Will know in next episode... but i don't really think that geass still work after the death of the caster.
it should
it damages the brain
i don't think that magically disappears when the "caster" is dead
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Old 2008-09-21, 16:22   Link #10452
killbethy
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Originally Posted by Koshimizu View Post
While we're at it, there's something I noticed...
In this line, Jeremiah said "kakka (閣下, His Excellency)" instead of "heika (陛下, His Majesty)".
I can accept "His Highness" if it's a slip of tongue. But "His Excellency" is just for common people with high status!

Is this a sign of Lelouch switching from "Lelouch vi Britannia" (Emperor) to "Zero" (commoner)?
I noticed this too, added with the fact that Lelouch Geasses Schneizel to obey "Zero" and not "Lelouch vi Britannia" (Emperor), makes me believe that somehow, Zero will be resurrected as a symbol. My best guess here is still that Suzaku and Lelouch will still spend the rest of their days on the Damocles, having lost everything that is important to them, and the Zero Requiem being a constant reminder of what happens when someone is given too much power... again, turning the Damocles from Schneizel's "The people are a symbol for the Damocles" to Lelouch "the Damocles will be a symbol for the people". So in essence, Damocles can become Zero... the reminder of what happens when someone preys on the weak. Through the battle, Lelouch has pretty much wiped out the forces of Britannia AND the UFN (since their forces were only the BKs after giving up their own individual armies). Now that the two superpowers of the world have nothing to fight with, they can only start from scratch together... but they will have to make that choice for themselves. The reminants of the Damocles will serve as a reminder of what happened in the (now) past. I could see both Lelouch and Suzaku content living their lives out (perhaps with a Geass twist) to keep the secrets of such distruction hidden.

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Originally Posted by vio5555 View Post
Well, I'd agree with you on the first point until the present. I do think the Nunally that fired the FLEIJAs prior to Lelouch breaking through the barrier is different from the Nunally that overcame the Geass which didn't happen till after.

Yes the first is a puppet of Schneizel's but the latter is standing on her own feet of her own accord. Before that, she was just listening to what people told her was good and bad without making very many value judgments.

After she loses the FLEIJA button, she seems to gain the strength to overcome the Geass. Sure she's pursuing the same course, but I do think there's a change in her there that Lelouch doesn't anticipate.

Otherwise he wouldn't have been shocked. Now he has to convince Nunally to give up the Schneizel plan even though she's "now doing it of her own will" since she overcame the Geass that tied her to the past.

Maybe its just the nuance, but I do think that Lelouch's reaction indicates that it is a substantial enough change to the simple "save Nunally from people who dominate her plan".

About the whole Kallen thing, she does need to come to the realization of what Lelouch/Suzaku are trying to do. I don't think it'll be satisfying to anyone watching if she beats Suzaku over a pretense when they're actually fighting for the future.
Agreed on Kallen. But still with Nunnally, just opening her eyes would be shocking enough for Lelouch. But it doesn't change the fact that she opened her eyes in order to retrieve the FLEIA control for the Damocles. I don't think the first time she opened her eyes was when she saw Lelouch... if you watch carefully, when she is on the ground searching for the switch, she suddenly turns and looks directly at it. If that's the case, then her reason for opening her eyes was still to keep the key for the Damocles to defeat her brother which is no change from what she was doing when Schneizel was in command. After all, firing the FLEIAs was still originally of her own accord, she asked for the switch herself. The only difference now is Schneizel isn't there to tell her exactly WHEN to fire it. Overcoming the Geass is a big deal, but the reason it happened is still one of the past and the reason of Schneizel. Her resolve is the same as it was before.

I think the reason for her opening her eyes was a mirror of the beginning of Code Geass when Lelouch tells Nunnally that by the time she opens her eyes, the world will have changed to a peaceful place where they can live happily and be accepted. Now she has opened her eyes to see her brother as the villain, which is the worst possible scenario for Lelouch, since his original vow was to make the world a good place BEFORE she opened her eyes. So this would be doubly shocking for Lelouch, as she has both overcome the Geass and has opened her eyes to a world that is currently in complete upheaval with him painted as the villain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vio5555 View Post
My point was that C.C. is the most irrelevant in the final battle. If the entire final battle is predicated upon the misunderstanding that Nunally (principal) and Kallen (knight) have against Lelouch (principal) and Suzaku (knight) over whether their real intentions are Earth-domination or the Zero Requiem that they don't know about, then C.C. is clearly not really going to play a large role in it...

You're just point to the fact that she enabled him to develop the resolve. While that may be so, it has no bearing on her import to the final battle unless something dramatic happens (which may very well happen).

From what we know now, C.C. is almost irrelevant to the final battle itself, unless something dramatically changes to bring her back into the picture.
I agree again with you there. C.C. is pretty much equivalent to Lelouch's resolve throughout the series. Whenever he doubts himself, C.C. is there to remind him (spare the moment when Kallen stops Lelouch from taking refrain). The only purpose I can see for C.C. now is to be able to once more strengthen Lelouch's resolve against Nunnally or give him her code (but I don't think there would be much purpose in that, except if the Zero Requiem calls for gaining C.C.'s code). But they have played up the part that C.C. needs to be Lelouch's shield (as said by Suzaku and the imagery of her holding the shield in the hangar). Perhaps her failure to do that and leaving Lelouch to confront an awakened Nunnally alone is the end of her purpose and the only thing she can do is somehow convince Kallen that she needs to be Lelouch's "shield" instead. These are only theories, but I agree with you... her purpose in this final battle is really up in the air. The last real contribution she made was her talk with Lelouch in Episode 24 after realizing Nunnally is alive and leading him to keep walking the path towards the Zero Requiem. I don't even think stalling Kallen serves as a "purpose" for C.C., because it could have been anyone that could have stalled Kallen, but only C.C. could give Lelouch his resolve.
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Old 2008-09-21, 16:26   Link #10453
Wolfpack
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
i think at this point you need to understand a few things that happened this ep (once you read the subs)
a)lulu is willing to kill nunnaly with his own hands (so he tells C.C) if she is a risk to the plan
b)cornalia says that shnizel didnt kill her and that he would have made a great king in a differnt time
c)lelouch isnt trying to destroy the damocles at all but to take it over (he tells shnizel to disarm the self destract) which means he just stole a doom fortress with a lot of nukes

i hate to tell some of you this (since you wont like it)
but i was right after all
lelouch really is set up to be the final villan of the show
guess having mind control powers is not enough so he needs a doom fort now

he's not "skeletor evil"
but i think he's the final villan
which means that kallens role no longer appalys to save him
its to stop him and save nunnaly
The a) and c) have already been covered, how they're contradictory with lulu's actions.

If Lulu turns out to be the "final villain" of the show, in my opinion, it's probably because he intentionally sets himself up to be one.

I think he's not gonna use the damocles, but we don't know. It's only speculation at this point. As for Kallen stopping him... it could happen. Even though she was in tears while trying to kill Lulu in the hanger she still tried to go through with it.
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Old 2008-09-21, 16:30   Link #10454
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Spoiler for TV mags:

Extended preview.
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Old 2008-09-21, 16:30   Link #10455
killbethy
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Okay... I was thinking about the reasons for Cornelia being alive, and it reminded me of the 2ch "spoilers" that I translated awhile ago.

23. Mask of Schneizel: Nunnally, who was though to have been dead, suddenly appears before Lelouch at Mt. Fuji, controlled by Schneizel
24. Sky of Damocles: The fight between Lelouch and Schneizel is pushed to the extremes, with Lelouch narrowly achieving victory by making restitution with a woman who has always supported him: in other words, it comes at the cost of the death of the woman he loves most.
25. Cornelia becomes the 100th Emperor of the Holy Empire of Britannia. Kaguya becomes Prime Minister of the newly independent Japan. The two countries work together in reshaping the world and fulfilling the desires of their peoples. Because Lelouch and Suzaku both could not protect the people they wished to protect, they decide to start their lives over.


These were posted right before 23 came out... it's somewhat interesting because they really aren't too far off right now. Although I doubt this is the final outcome... you could make it fit the series. Since after 24, Lelouch narrowly does achieve victory because Kallen almost stops him, but C.C. steps in and takes on Kallen instead. The translation (I don't have the original anymore), I don't think said literally that it "cost the life" but came at the expense of the woman he loves the most, which you could assume is C.C.'s defeat when stalling Kallen. And now Cornelia is presented as alive again and Kaguya has been "rescued" by Xing-ke as well. I hope this isn't the ending, but you could definitely interpret it in a way that it has fit 23 and 24 so far.
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Old 2008-09-21, 16:31   Link #10456
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So the scene in the OP with Damocles in a darkened sky and Toudou attacking it did not occur in this episode, meaning it'll have to happen in 25 or it was just put in the OP for shits and giggles by Sunrise.

Now that Schneizel's out of the game and the UFN reps have been rescued, it's really hard to speculate what those guys could possibly still be trying to do.
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Old 2008-09-21, 16:32   Link #10457
lousylaus
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Originally Posted by Koshimizu View Post
TV Magazine summaries

Spoiler for TV mags:

Extended preview.
Can we expect some leaks for the final episode?
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Old 2008-09-21, 16:34   Link #10458
killbethy
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Originally Posted by Koshimizu View Post
TV Magazine summaries

Spoiler for TV mags:

Extended preview.

Koshimizu... isn't more directly translated as "has become" and not "becomes"? "becomes" kind of implies that he winds up being acknowledged as Emperor again, as opposed to him already being Emperor...
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Old 2008-09-21, 16:37   Link #10459
pingva
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So the scene in the OP with Damocles in a darkened sky and Toudou attacking it did not occur in this episode, meaning it'll have to happen in 25 or it was just put in the OP for shits and giggles by Sunrise.
Yes OP was done for fun
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Old 2008-09-21, 16:39   Link #10460
Dream_Traveller
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Not to mention that the Zangetsu was destroyed.
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