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Old 2008-09-22, 09:56   Link #3041
Witacume
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
That depends, sure Lelouch's power is easy to abuse and easy to use to dominate others. But stepping back and looking at it for a minute. Lelouch's power may make someone do things against their will but it is not like such a thing is only limited to geass. To a degree we have laws to control people, why? Because some people do bad things, but we stop them against their will for the good of the whole. Parents who shape their child's growth according to their own beliefs and ideology are also imposing their will upon that child. Now ofcourse Lelouch's geass takes that way farther but inherently control over others is not evil, it is a matter of how it is used.
hmmm.
I see your point.
But you see this is where i disagree.
Is that people can still disagree with the action of belief's imposed on them.
For instance the government makes Alcohol illegal.
They are trying to control us.
But they fail because Alcohol still comes through.
Lelouch's GEass on the other had makes it happen.
If lelouch said Don't drink Alcohol.
its end of story.

What i find it ironic is that Lelouch is fighting his own geass.
He wants people to have choice and choose the right one.
Yet he is using a power that denies choice.
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Old 2008-09-22, 10:00   Link #3042
Narona
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Originally Posted by Witacume View Post
hmmm.
I see your point.
But you see this is where i disagree.
Is that people can still disagree with the action of belief's imposed on them.
For instance the government makes Alcohol illegal.
They are trying to control us.
But they fail because Alcohol still comes through.
Lelouch's GEass on the other had makes it happen.
If lelouch said Don't drink Alcohol.
its end of story.

What i find it ironic is that Lelouch is fighting his own geass.
He wants people to have choice and choose the right one.
Yet he is using a power that denies choice
.
Because he doesn't have any other choice to change his destiny and, if he succeeds, to change the world?

People don't do only white and black things. Lelouch did many wrong things but saved the world two times in a row.

And the geass can be sometimes overcome, nunnaly proves it, Suzaku too (against bismark when his geass said to him to flee)
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Old 2008-09-22, 10:04   Link #3043
demon_god04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Witacume View Post
hmmm.
I see your point.
But you see this is where i disagree.
Is that people can still disagree with the action of belief's imposed on them.
For instance the government makes Alcohol illegal.
They are trying to control us.
But they fail because Alcohol still comes through.
Lelouch's GEass on the other had makes it happen.
If lelouch said Don't drink Alcohol.
its end of story.

What i find it ironic is that Lelouch is fighting his own geass.
He wants people to have choice and choose the right one.
Yet he is using a power that denies choice.
What I am getting at is the imposing their will on others part. As I said Lelouch's Geass does take it farther, but consider that for crimes we have the police who bring in suspects and incarcerate them against their will for breaking the law.
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Old 2008-09-22, 10:04   Link #3044
Witacume
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Because he doesn't have any choice to change his destiny and, if he succeeds, to change the world?

And the geass can be sometimes overcome, nunnaly prove it, Suzaku too (against bismark when his geass said to him to flee)
i didn't mean it in a negative way i just find it ironic.
Just like i find Kallen loving the Emperor of brittinian even though she hated brittinian ironic.

In the End Lelouch is not some shining white knight.
Instead he is full of grey.
He not some shining knight.
He has done too much evil.
Has he done it from good reason's.
Sure but in the end i cannot agree with him.
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Old 2008-09-22, 10:06   Link #3045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Witacume View Post

In the End Lelouch is not some shining white knight.

But of course not, he is the epitome of anti-hero. Kinda misunderstood one but still anti-hero. Anyway, i 've yet to see what Zerp's Requiem is about to say more things about Lulu.
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Old 2008-09-22, 10:07   Link #3046
Witacume
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
What I am getting at is the imposing their will on others part. As I said Lelouch's Geass does take it farther, but consider that for crimes we have the police who bring in suspects and incarcerate them against their will for breaking the law.
I see your point but Lelouch's Geass takes it further as you said.
That much further makes it evil.
the Criminal in your case can still struggle and try to get away.
It is not total denial of will.
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Old 2008-09-22, 10:07   Link #3047
Narona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Witacume View Post
i didn't mean it in a negative way i just find it ironic.
Just like i find Kallen loving the Emperor of brittinian even though she hated brittinian ironic.

In the End Lelouch is not some shining white knight.
Instead he is full of grey.
He not some shining knight.
He has done too much evil.
Has he done it from good reason's.
Sure but in the end i cannot agree with him.
I can understand, but the point is that he saved the world two times in a row XD

Well, I don't agree with having to use people against their will. This is evil. But it's hard to judge someone like lelouch who did that.......... but saved the world.

After what he said to schneizel, I really wonder what is ZR
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Old 2008-09-22, 10:12   Link #3048
demon_god04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Witacume View Post
I see your point but Lelouch's Geass takes it further as you said.
That much further makes it evil.
the Criminal in your case can still struggle and try to get away.
It is not total denial of will.
I guess we have reached an impasse. It should not be just that it takes it farther that makes it evil, it should be how that power is used that determines it's value. Power does not have cognitive thought, nor can impose an action upon one wielding it. Ultimately it is the choices we make that determines that.
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Old 2008-09-22, 10:13   Link #3049
Witacume
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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
I can understand, but the point is that he saved the world two times in a row XD

Well, I don't agree with having to use people against their will. This is evil. But it's hard to judge someone like lelouch who did that.......... but saved the world.

After what he said to schneizel, I really wonder what is ZR
I understand what you mean but Lelouch has saved the world but the means to getting there was too costly.
He could have been honest from day one.
But at las that did not happen.
as for ZR? really you don't get it?
I link you my post i did 3 weeks ago i am pretty confindent.
It makes even more sense now.
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Old 2008-09-22, 10:16   Link #3050
Witacume
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
I guess we have reached an impasse. It should not be just that it takes it farther that makes it evil, it should be how that power is used that determines it's value. Power does not have cognitive thought, nor can impose an action upon one wielding it. Ultimately it is the choices we make that determines that.
we will have to agree to disagree.
I was going to make some witty answer but i agree with most of your analysis that is hard to argue against you lol.
Because i agree with General power your assessment is correct.
But i can not agree with total denial of will.
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Old 2008-09-22, 10:16   Link #3051
Theron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Witacume View Post
I see your point but Lelouch's Geass takes it further as you said.
That much further makes it evil.
the Criminal in your case can still struggle and try to get away.
It is not total denial of will.
It would be pointless for him to have some fluffy Geass from the storytelling prospective. For example, for him to have C.C.'s 'Love' Geass. That would entirely destroy his antagonistic anti-hero image witch essentially was so magnetic about him from the start.
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Old 2008-09-22, 10:41   Link #3052
Julao
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can lelouch break the geass and C.C's curse by his own will like nunnally??
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Old 2008-09-22, 11:00   Link #3053
KrimzonStriker
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Arggh, I'm going to say this straight out Wit, power is not evil, it is the use of power that dictates whether or not it is evil. As others have brought up beforehand, one could take into case law, policy, or even war for that matter. With Geass Lelouch has accomplished much, yes he has faltered on some occasions with it, but overall as he said it was his responsibility. There is nothing inherently evil, least of all in this series after Nina, Rolo, hell Charles and Schneizel have managed to work in their portrayal. <_<
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Old 2008-09-22, 11:07   Link #3054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Witacume View Post
I understand what you mean but Lelouch has saved the world but the means to getting there was too costly.
He could have been honest from day one.
But at las that did not happen.
as for ZR? really you don't get it?
I link you my post i did 3 weeks ago i am pretty confindent.
It makes even more sense now.
How can saving the world be considered too costly?

First he saved 6 billion people from being turned into pools of tang. Then he saved another 2 billion from being reduced to less than atoms.

Saving that many people affords him a little slack.
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Old 2008-09-22, 11:10   Link #3055
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But just because Charles's voice actor is back, i don't know if we can confirm he will brought back to life? could just be a flashback or something.
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Old 2008-09-22, 11:12   Link #3056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Witacume View Post
I understand what you mean but Lelouch has saved the world but the means to getting there was too costly.
He could have been honest from day one.
But at las that did not happen.
as for ZR? really you don't get it?
I link you my post i did 3 weeks ago i am pretty confindent.
It makes even more sense now.

Lets just say in this cruel whole. You cannot do things 100% out of honesty anymore. There is no such thing. This is how the whole world, society is shaped. It just does not work LIKE THAT. Sometimes when do you GOOD, there are people who will oppose it. Strange but true.

Why do you think most politicians in the world are not exactly very honest?

And being dishonest with 10 people can save 2 billions to 5 billions people.. I don't see how cruel is that.
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Old 2008-09-22, 11:13   Link #3057
Tael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
SO! I don't think that lelouch hates geass anymore. And I don't see C.C. dying. She needs to understand that she has a future, even if she stays immortal. That she can still seeks and fights for happiness.
The best way to look at Geass, is like an embodiment of the seven sins. It is power fueled by desire. This power, however, is unbridled resulting in unbridled desires. This is where we see the cross over in to the seven deadly sins. So while Lelouch may not hate it, which I find skeptical since he's been doing exactly what he said in Season 2 Episode 14 and limiting the accursed power to only one, it is a thing that needs to be removed from the world. Otherwise, simply, the chain of events, the existence of Charles and Marianne, can be repeated.

C.C. does not have to die, but her code has to cease to exist. It has to be removed if the future is ever going to be what Lelouch wants -> better than the present.
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Old 2008-09-22, 11:13   Link #3058
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Originally Posted by Theron View Post
Wakamoto is in the cast list for Turn 25.
Oh, yay. Reset's more probable than ever.
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Old 2008-09-22, 11:17   Link #3059
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Originally Posted by Tael View Post
C.C. does not have to die, but her code has to cease to exist. It has to be removed if the future is ever going to be what Lelouch wants -> better than the present.

I agree. I somehow believe that the end of Code Geass... it will be the end of the Geass curse once and for all. I think that would bring a meaning to the show.
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Old 2008-09-22, 11:18   Link #3060
pilipok
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damm kallen for decreasing the CC and lulu airtime ..
interupt at such a good time
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