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Old 2008-09-27, 14:50   Link #81
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
I can't really think of any anime shows I have watched that have Americans besides Baccano! and the portrayed Americans in the 1930s very well.
Baccano! was more pulp fiction than anything particularly "Japanese" though.

I tend to feel that more mature shows, more "cosmopolitan" shows, and more of what people usually acknowledge as "masterpieces" often display a higher level of multicultural understanding than your average otaku fare, which rarely even touch on such topics at all, and when they do so, awkwardly at best.

Not surprising; American TV is the same. The best ones are written by really smart people who know what they're doing after all, while lesser and lesser shows begin more and more to rely on stereotypes to carry on the impression of plausibility.
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Old 2008-09-27, 18:01   Link #82
TigerII
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Oi, I just remembered Full Metal Panic has an American. The silver haired girl, right? She was ditsy, clumsy, but I don't remember seeing her in a bad light.

Did I miss something with that one?
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Old 2008-09-27, 20:54   Link #83
animeboy12
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Personally I don't think anime has ever had a good portrayal of of "Americans". When I look at stuff like full metal panic, or Baccano as good as those character were their mannerism was very Japanese.
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Old 2008-09-27, 21:06   Link #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
Oi, I just remembered Full Metal Panic has an American. The silver haired girl, right? She was ditsy, clumsy, but I don't remember seeing her in a bad light.

Did I miss something with that one?
Well, the Mithril side of the cast is very international: the mistress of moe Tessa, who I believe is the one you're thinking of, is American; the squad leader Melissa Mao is Chinese-American (omg, the Japanese know there are Asians in America! ); Kurz is of German descent; Tessa's aide Mardukas served in the Royal Navy; etc., etc. And none of them exhibit particularly strong stereotypical behaviors.

Although like animeboy12 said above you could make a case that they're essentially Japanese in demeanor, though it would be a weak one with a rather slippery slope to slide down on.

Plus, I don't quite see how Baccano! was Japanese, unless people like Ladd Russo are dime a dozen in Tokyo?
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Old 2008-09-27, 23:19   Link #85
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Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Although like animeboy12 said above you could make a case that they're essentially Japanese in demeanor, though it would be a weak one with a rather slippery slope to slide down on.

Plus, I don't quite see how Baccano! was Japanese, unless people like Ladd Russo are dime a dozen in Tokyo?
Baccano was a bad example but there other anime series with foreigners with japanese demeanor and even when you don't have a Japanese demeanor they're portrayed wrongly. I recently finished genshiken 2 and there was an arc with two foreigners came in (one from England and one from America) and it stuck me as how badly those two were portrayed. Watching it, in the back of my mind I thought "there's no way in hell that two western student would act this".

My one question is where the hell are Japanese people getting the bases of these stereotypes?
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Old 2008-09-27, 23:43   Link #86
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It isn't "japanese people" so much as japanese writers who write what they know... and they're actually somewhat unfamiliar with "thinking like Westerners" when it comes to developing Western characters, much like Western television writers often "get it wrong" even when writing western characters for Western television.

Sometimes I'll watch the Big Bang Theory ...a sitcom about nerds and geeks supposedly. They actually get a fair amount of the behavior and how the characters might react just flat wrong.
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Old 2008-09-27, 23:52   Link #87
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Just look at Hollywood, the asian stereotypes are no better than western stereotypes in anime.
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Old 2008-09-28, 00:03   Link #88
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silver hair girls from soviet are the best, dont know why but silver hair girls from soviet are so cute, e.g. sanya from strike witch, the twins from black lagoon.
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Old 2008-09-28, 00:16   Link #89
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Originally Posted by kk2extreme View Post
silver hair girls from soviet are the best, dont know why but silver hair girls from soviet are so cute, e.g. sanya from strike witch, the twins from black lagoon.
Twins were Romanian. Technically apart of the U.S.S.R., Romania was apart of the Warsaw Pact and basically a puppet nation.


I will agree that besides Baccano!, 'good' Americans are very 'Japonized'.(And it is getting harder and harder for the world to see us as good. At least the Japanese view of Americans is abetter than many Europeans). At least from what I have seen. But again, Baccano! portrayed Americans from the 1930s very well for coming from an eastern nation. Other than that, I don't think I have seen Americans portrayed 'good' while not being 'eastern'. But this can also fall into other nations. Either the character is 'eastern' in acting or half Japanese themselves.


As Vexx said, American media is just as bad about stereotypes. And many foreign(not Japanese) films and shows I have watched are also bad about stereotypes.


Also, I like Big bang Theory
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Old 2008-09-28, 00:25   Link #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animeboy12 View Post
Baccano was a bad example but there other anime series with foreigners with japanese demeanor and even when you don't have a Japanese demeanor they're portrayed wrongly. I recently finished genshiken 2 and there was an arc with two foreigners came in (one from England and one from America) and it stuck me as how badly those two were portrayed. Watching it, in the back of my mind I thought "there's no way in hell that two western student would act this".

My one question is where the hell are Japanese people getting the bases of these stereotypes?
How did they act? (The two westerner students).

I ask because I'm curious; I've seen some portrayal of stereotypical American behavior in anime, sometimes negative, but it's usually something that seems faithful to how a typical American might act. It's never something that makes me go like "an American/Westerner would never act like that." It's funny to think they might actually have a false stereotype.
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Old 2008-09-28, 01:01   Link #91
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I don't tend to watch the "serious action drama" type series with Americans or other nationalities in them. From other posts, it sounds like they follow the sorts of stereotypes we used to see in 1960s films like "The Great Race" or "Around the World in 80 Days", "Those Fabulous Men in Their Flying Machines" ... all international casts all richly portraying the silly stereotypes of their own countries.

The Americans I've seen portrayed in slice'o'life, romances, or comedies seem to all come from Texas or some place with brash bravado. Often they are fans of Japanese culture but don't quite get it right. Tina Foster (AYA), Patricia Martin (L*S), Winner Sinclair (Karin), ...

Ichigo Masimaro gives us Ana Coppola ... a little British girl completely raised as Japanese but trying desperately to act British because her blonde hair leaves her in between two cultures (not unlike Tina Foster in some ways).

In general, the "mistakes" or "stereotypes" seemed to be fairly on target even if it was clear the writers were misunderstanding the nuances.
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Old 2008-09-28, 01:13   Link #92
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lets not advocate two wrongs make a right though
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Old 2008-09-28, 01:34   Link #93
TigerII
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Oi, just found another show with foreigners(many nationalities), but the show is so over the top...you would expect stereotypes. Soul Eater...seriously....lol. They even put cowboy hats on two of the Americans. That stereotype is from like the forties.
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Old 2008-09-28, 05:51   Link #94
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animeboy12
My one question is where the hell are Japanese people getting the bases of these stereotypes?
I think the origins are probably a mix of truth and cultural misunderstanding combined. Westerners can be seen as louder and more direct than the Japanese, and a rather not all that significant difference is blown by culture shock into majestic Texan proportions and passed down through the generations of clichés present in these mediums.

That is my hypothesis at least.

And, like Vexx said, these portrayals of Americans and other Westerners in anime that we decry so willingly follow the same routine as much of American entertainment some forty years ago did -- distinguish the characters the easy way: with stereotypes -- and some of the more inane of American entertainment today continues to do so.

I was quite thoroughly annoyed at...whatstheirname?...Cheetah Girls or something in a music video I saw where they claimed to be "multicultural" by just mixing the most stereotypical "Indian" sound possible into a segment of the song with the accompanying scene being some sort of Taj Mahal lookalike and Indian girls dancing. Like, huh.

Mind you, I don't like the "stupid Americans" stereotype either, even though I have no personal stake in it. It's often a rather jarringly stupid addition in an otherwise excellent or excellently over-the-top production.

*cough* Read or Die the OVA *cough*

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
Oi, just found another show with foreigners(many nationalities), but the show is so over the top...you would expect stereotypes. Soul Eater...seriously....lol. They even put cowboy hats on two of the Americans. That stereotype is from like the forties.
And those ladies are from Brooklyn...

Boy, that was amazing in a lolwut kind of way. New Yorkers in cowboy hats?
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Old 2008-09-28, 06:31   Link #95
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Maybe its just that you guys are overreacting.

Taking Liz and Patty for example, who cares which part of america they're from, I know I love how they look.

And they didn't wear cowboy hats from the start, they only had this dressing after they met Kid. Back in Brooklyn they wore normal fashion.
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Old 2008-09-28, 09:38   Link #96
animeboy12
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I don't think this is overreacting. There's nothing wrong with pointing at something you find wrong.

The reason why people are somewhat forgiving of stereotyping in American media is because there's a sense that the people actually are able to tell what is true about that stereotype and not because of America's diverse backgroud
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Old 2008-09-28, 10:56   Link #97
TigerII
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Eh, what get so upset? We Americans make it very easy to give bad stereotype. Not like the writers care if we are offended or not. Just ignore it and move along. Besides Japan is a very xenophobic nations with a touch of racism added.(When I was there, the people around me who were disliked the most were Chinese).

Also, the youngest sister makes me want to shoot her. I hate that laughing.
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Old 2008-09-28, 20:15   Link #98
C.A.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
Eh, what get so upset? We Americans make it very easy to give bad stereotype. Not like the writers care if we are offended or not. Just ignore it and move along. Besides Japan is a very xenophobic nations with a touch of racism added.(When I was there, the people around me who were disliked the most were Chinese).

Also, the youngest sister makes me want to shoot her. I hate that laughing.
You see, your first sentence and last sentence have already proven my point. You've just shown that you have a tendency to overreact.

And back at stereotyping.

From all that I've read from the thread, it seems every single character as long as they have a known nationality/race, they are pointed out for stereotyping in anything.

See, if characters of a certain nation/race can be presented in so many different characteristics, doesn't that mean that they weren't stereotyped? What we've been doing in this thread is bring up characters of lots of races and from what we've seen or read, those characters from the same nationality/race vary alot.
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Old 2008-09-28, 22:29   Link #99
TigerII
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Each nationality has a set of stereotypes, and they are almost always presented. They don't vary that much. And how do I overreact? It doesn't bother me that anyone is stereotyped. And have you watched that show? The laughing(Which has nothing to do with a set character) is just annoying. That sentence was off topic for this thread.
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Old 2008-09-28, 22:49   Link #100
C.A.
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And like the rest of the examples in this thread, its all opinions, whether each character is stereotyping is also an opinion from the viewer. Your finding of her laughter annoying is also your opinion, but there are more who find her laughing cute and its also my opinion. Your reaction to her laughter, shoot her with a gun = overreacting.

Well for fasion stereotypes, maybe people from the countries of those characters don't like it, but the audience do.

Example:

Do chinese wear their cheongsams and qipaos all the time? No.

Why are they always presented as such? Because they look pretty in that and the audience like it.

I'd say the same for cowboys and such.
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No longer a NEET so I'll not be online as often.
Ignore gender and kick sexuality to the curb!
I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science.
Deviant Art: http://ca0001.deviantart.com/
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