Character Discussion - Kallen

[dec4rhapsody]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

Kallen is a main character, stated by her among of screentime and by Taniguchi himself. owned

Now it doesn't matter anymore....

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by youngde

Just my two cents here, then I'm going back to bed.

She has TONS of development towards Lelouch at the start (first 10 episodes)...meeting him (eps 1), confrontation (eps 2), getting teased by C.C. about it (eps 3), talking to Lelouch/C.C. about strategy and her relationship w/ Lelouch (eps 5), talking to him at the festival (eps. 5), almost kiss scene 1 (eps. 7), almost kiss scene 2 (eps. 9), Lelouch freaking when she was caught (eps. 10).

Admittably in the middle, her character plot was lost among others, but it still focused on learning about Lelouch. (eps. 11-17).

Then in the end, her character seemed to be developed mostly so she would hold out hope longest at his apparent betrayel, and be hurt the most when it appeared to be true, to the point where she hated him because (in her mind), he was lying to her the whole time and not the man she fell in love w/. Still, she couldn't shake her feelings for him completely. Basically, they developed her into being so in love w/ the real Lelouch, that when it appeared that he was the complete opposite, she both hated and loved him at the same time. That's awfully complicated develoment for a background character.

Face it, she was one of the main characters, but in the end, her plot line feels a little open. She appears to have understood in the end, but there's no scene that shows that transition. I just think she should have had one last talk w/ Lelouch or at least showed the scene where she understood. (I can only assume it was cut because they seem to have been going for a completely ambiguous ending, and such a scene would have made it less so.)

youngde, signing off.

If this is all it takes to be a main central character than all of Lelouch's damn harem should be main characters. Romance subplots and screentime does not a main character make.

[Kusa-San]

Well it's true that Kallen is not the lead female character but she is a part of the main four even if she has no BG development at all. But she is indeed not the main female in this show .

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

"Usually the main character in a story of any kind, book, movie, TV show, who has the most importance in the story and does the most to support the plot by causing most of the plot action. ."

Lelouch is obviously a main character. Suzaku is the main antagonist making him a main character. C.C. is a main character for being the one to give Lelouch geass and for being his main confidante. These are the main central three.

Secondary characters are static characters. "A static character does not undergo significant change. A static character is a literary character that remains basically unchanged throughout a work. Whether round or flat, their personalities remain essentially stable throughout the course of the story." i.e. Kallen.
I can't even say Kallen's role is The secondary-character-who-acts-like-a-primary character because she doesn't do any of the protagonists' jobs.

Though its obvious we've reached a standstill. You may also want to take into consideration all the side stuff that she's in. The songs, the picture dramas, etc, etc, and while Kallen had apparently had no impact on the plot. She did not remain, flat or static, as for better or worse her emotions and allegiances wavered greatly throughout R2.

Unlike Shirley. There was much to discuss in not only Kallen's emerging feelings but of future alliances.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

Kallen is a main character, stated by her among of screentime and by Taniguchi himself. owned

The secondary-character-who-acts-like-a-primary character- When the writer loves the secondary character too much, and the main character too little.

Two words for you: Han Solo. And that's fine if the book isn't tightly focused on the hero, and/or if you don't mind demoting the hero (Luke Who?). But be careful of plot incoherence, where the position of Luke indicates he is supposed to be the protagonist, but the plot development actually leads to Han's growing centrality.

[Lolipopo]

Yeah the secondary character, the LI, the useless girl...as you wish, I'm too much happy to cares about that

Finally this ending is good and I understand finally perfectly Kallen's character song.

[Kusa-San]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

Yeah the secondary character, the LI, the useless girl...as you wish, I'm too much happy to cares about that

Finally this ending is good and I understand finally perfectly Kallen's character song.

Uh sorry but ther is absolutely no proff of Kallen being the LI or whatever you want

I think the main problem with Kallen is that :

- She has no Bg development at all which is annoying when we see all her screentime
- She has no impact on the geass plot.

It's, i think, for that, that some people maybe think that she is not a main character. But with all her screentime she is indneed a main character.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by yvj

Though its obvious we've reached a standstill. You may also want to take into consideration all the side stuff that she's in. The songs, the picture dramas, etc, etc, and while Kallen had apparently had no impact on the plot. She did not remain, flat or static, as for better or worse her emotions and allegiances wavered greatly throughout R2.

Unlike Shirley. There was much to discuss in not only Kallen's emerging feelings but of future alliances.

Comparing the importance of a secondary character to another secondary character doesn't prove Kallen is a central character. Even though Shirley and Kallen have gone through exactly the same thing except she's not Action Girl in a big Mecha.

[lightbringer]

Originally Posted by youngde

Face it, she was one of the main characters, but in the end, her plot line feels a little open. She appears to have understood in the end, but there's no scene that shows that transition.

I felt that her saying "that's Zero" when Suzaku appeared was just such a scene. Suddenly it seemed like she understood what Lelouch was aiming for. She's shedding tears at his death, too.

Of course, I still feel cheated out of closure for her character and her interactions with Lelouch (and some other things).

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

Yeah the secondary character, the LI, the useless girl...as you wish, I'm too much happy to cares about that

Finally this ending is good and I understand finally perfectly Kallen's character song.

Yes another throwback to EP 19 when the OotBK were about to shoot Lelouch and she desperately yelled for them to "wait" when she realised what he did.

Only difference is that this time she was restrained and no one showed up to "save" him from himself.

She realised what was going to happen and was like "i got trolled again". Oh well i'll forgive him anyway.

[Double 120%]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

I put it there too

Spoiler:

Sadly I don't thing the farmer is Lelouch, CC is looking toward the sky, and his death was too strong to those he loved, I just can't see it being a fake (we had too much fake this season, this one was too awesome to accept it)

Lelouch thought about a lof things really quicky and to Kallen's kiss there was a short pause just like Shirley who is playing with her ball, and Rolo who is smiling (and it's the only thing he remembers about her xD) hence he definitely had feelings for her

And Kallen still loves him, her sweet tone when she is sayinghis name and her smile definitely prove it. Her character song implies that finally she understood he has feelings for her and finally this turn gave me the same feeling.

The gum line was too strong to an ambiguous ending they definitely reased it :O
I'd like to think the farmer is him...cause I still don't see his relationship with CC as romantic xD (Kalulu kiss in lelouch's head ! pause ! hehehehe)

For arguments sake, if Lelouch is alive, don't you think it's awesome that he pulled off his Zero Requiem plan so well that even we, the audience, don't know for sure if the driver is him?

[Witacume]

Originally Posted by Double 120%

For arguments sake, if Lelouch is alive, don't you think it's awesome that he pulled off his Zero Requiem plan so well that even we, the audience, don't know for sure if the driver is him?

well its more awesome that the writers pretty much did such an open ending. that all of us can say we won
In the end I am going with Lelouch is dead.
That death scene was too epic especially with Nunnaly and Suzaku crying.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by lightbringer

I felt that her saying "that's Zero" when Suzaku appeared was just such a scene. Suddenly it seemed like she understood what Lelouch was aiming for. She's shedding tears at his death, too.

Exactly. I think that when Kallen said "it's Zero" she saw through Lulu's eyes and saw the "Zero" she always knew.

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by Double 120%

For arguments sake, if Lelouch is alive, don't you think it's awesome that he pulled off his Zero Requiem plan so well that even we, the audience, don't know for sure if the driver is him?

Yes...it is u_u" Ambiguous ending he...

Kallen's kiss pause in the flashback ! And Kallen finally understood him at the very end. My only regret is this gum line...

When will be up kallen's song ?

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Double 120%

For arguments sake, if Lelouch is alive, don't you think it's awesome that he pulled off his Zero Requiem plan so well that even we, the audience, don't know for sure if the driver is him?

If the theory about him unknowingly inheriting Charles code is true and that you need to die first to activate then it makes sense.

He didn't know himself that he had Code, therefore as far as he or anyone else who knew the outline of the plan was concerned he was going to die. Thats why everyones reactions were so real. They didn't have a clue that he was going to pop back up later.

I still hold out hope that due to the ambiguity of the ending, its true that he has Code and continues to live on even if it is with C.C. He was one of the few who didn't deserve to die and needs a happy end.

[roon]

Sound Episode 4, including Kallen's song, will be out October 1.

Ugh, such a bittersweet song now that the series is over.

[Double 120%]

Can someone explain to me what is this "gum line" everyone keeps mentioning?

[scarlet512]

I thought the ending was good. As for Kallen's role, I'm kinda happy that it is open ended but I'm a bit surprised that the gum line wasn't released. Perhaps, it'll be out in the sound episode? No clue...

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Double 120%

Can someone explain to me what is this "gum line" everyone keeps mentioning?

Kallens gumline from official merchandise that people with way too much time on their managed to read using god knows what.

Supposedly its something like "If you tell me that you love(non-specific), then i won't forgive you".

[Arkard]

Well, I have mixed feelings on this.

Good

- Kallen understands Lelouch's plan.
- Kallen knows why Lelouch pushed her away all this time.
- Kallen knows Lelouch loved her.

Bad

- No gum line is an epic cave in. Quite frankly, I think it was omitted to preserve the "open endedness" of the ending.

- Kallen understands now, too bad it was when Lelouch was getting impaled >_<

- The Gino x Kallen stuff is fricking retarded. I mean look at this on the bottom right:

Spoiler for Kallen Picture Board:

Gino x Tianzi?

Conclusion

I think that this was actually an amazing ending. After the initial gut retching reaction that the gum line was not said, I watched and realized how well done this ending was. Lelouch gave Kallen everything she wanted with the exception of himself. A free Japan. A normal everyday school girl life. Her mother, free and well. Her friends all safe and sound. A "victory" over her most hated rival. Zero's reputation upheld. He was selfless until the end, even though he loved her. Rather, it was because he loved her that he took this path alone. We know why he closed himself up and pushed her away. He was planning to die all along, and that was a path he did not want her to follow ("live on") nor suffer from if he told her he loved her. He wanted to be with her, hence "will you come with me to Ashford after this is all over?" He bit his lip at their last meeting, he kept her away for her own good, protecting what he knew would be even worse heart break if he reciprocated her feelings and he fulfilled his promise of death. Kallen's song "One More Chance" makes perfect crystal clear sense now. Based on the lyrics, she understands now. She knows he loved her. She thanks him for it, and says she'll live the path he wanted her to.

Lelouch vi Britannia, the man of miracles, your final act was one befitting your brilliance. You walked into the reaper's arms, suppressing all emotions so that those you cared about might live. Even though they betrayed you, you spared their lives and gave them one final miracle that told them, and only them, your true character and how wrong they were. Rest in peace, knowing that you brought happiness and peace to your friends, your comrades, your sister, and the woman you loved. Rest too, my friends and comrades, Kallen did and still loves Lelouch and he loved her.

There was a two month gap, so I hope there's a movie or an OVA to cover it. There's too many things left unanswered like C.C.'s real name, Geass, and the gum line.