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Old 2008-09-26, 17:20   Link #821
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
How is this the fault of the government? It shows that they need to put some regulations into place along with agencies to enforce them, but the government wasn't the entity that decided it would be great to add melamine to milk. I believe it was Hu Jintao, the president of the PRC, who was quoted as saying that the dairy companies were "heartless" and I'm afraid I'd have to agree. This was a rotten business decision. It's the government's duty to protect the people from things like this and the government certainly failed here, but I don't believe that businessmen should be forgiven for lacking ethics just because of their profession.
because the government sat on this information during the olympic and did nothing while thousands feed this milk to thier children. Certain reporters knew about the problem before hand but wasn't able to investigae or report on it because the government didn't allow them to.
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Old 2008-09-26, 22:21   Link #822
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
because the government sat on this information during the olympic and did nothing while thousands feed this milk to thier children. Certain reporters knew about the problem before hand but wasn't able to investigae or report on it because the government didn't allow them to.
I can see why the government shouldn't get any gold stars, but it isn't like the government made the decision to put this material into the milk. It isn't like this was some natural disaster, either. I mean, if this were a case of heavy storms approaching and the government didn't warn its people, we could blame the government. Someone made the decision to put melamine into milk as a means to get around protein content ratings. That's not just highly unethical, that's criminal. The government has learned that it needs to do a better job of protecting its population, yes, but the blame for this entire issue should be placed on the group or individual who decided to add melamine into their milk.
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Old 2008-09-26, 22:45   Link #823
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One distinction that I'd like to bring up is that the Chinese government isn't some sort of single-minded monolithic institution. There's a huge amount of difference between the Chinese central government and the local governments, and these groups have vastly different priorities. The latter are well known to be extremely corrupt, and they're generally the ones who are involved in the actual coverups. The central government, on the other hand, tends to crack down on any apparent corruption, and are generally not involved in protecting people who skirt laws and regulations.

I'm not trying to say that the PRC central government is some sort of white knight, but they really don't stand to gain from ethical violations. The main things that they care about have to do with keeping themselves in power, and they've found that a reputation for harshly treating with corrupt officials serves to do that.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/4693139a3600.html

Quote:
NZ officials blew whistle on milk scare
Monday, 15 September 2008

New Zealand officials "blew the whistle" on the sale of contaminated milk linked to the death of at least one baby in China, Prime Minister Helen Clark says.

The contaminated milk powder was sold by New Zealand dairy giant Fonterra's Chinese joint venture partner, Sanlu raising fears the scandal could taint New Zealand's reputation in the massive market.

The Green Party is questioning why Fonterra did not go public with concerns after it yesterday revealed it had been aware of the contamination since mid-August, despite a full public recall only being initiated last week.

But Miss Clark today said Fonterra had pushed for a full recall at the earliest possible opportunity but had been blocked by Chinese local government officials.

"They have been trying for weeks to get official recall and the local authorities in China would not do it," she said on TVNZ's Breakfast programme.

Miss Clark said the first she knew about the issue was on September 5.

Three days later she convened a meeting of senior ministers at which she ordered officials to leapfrog the local officials and immediately inform their superiors in Beijing.

"As you can imagine when New Zealand Government blew the whistle in Beijing a very heavy hand then descended on the local authorities," she said.

"At a local level. . .I think the first inclination was to try and put a towel over it and deal with it without an official recall. That is never what we would do in New Zealand."
Note here that the officials that blocked the New Zealand company were at the local level (probably because they would have been the ones held responsible). They would probably have had more luck if they had contacted the central government instead; if only because the ones contacted wouldn't be directly involved in the scandal.
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Old 2008-09-27, 23:35   Link #824
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UCLA mathematicians discover a 13-million-digit prime number
http://www.latimes.com/technology/la...,6138555.story
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Old 2008-09-27, 23:37   Link #825
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Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
UCLA mathematicians discover a 13-million-digit prime number
http://www.latimes.com/technology/la...,6138555.story
Now students, remember this prime number
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Old 2008-09-27, 23:44   Link #826
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Yeah, and I was thinking, how much time and money did they spend trying to figure out this number? I know 100g's isn't going to cover it.
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Old 2008-09-27, 23:51   Link #827
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Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Yeah, and I was thinking, how much time and money did they spend trying to figure out this number? I know 100g's isn't going to cover it.
I know one thing, it will really screw up your calculator or you.
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Old 2008-09-28, 00:00   Link #828
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I think this has something to do with looking for better ways to secure or crack your secret stash

I can't think of other ways to use 13-million-digit prime number...
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Old 2008-09-28, 00:05   Link #829
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A person goes to the FBI, Microsoft, and Google. Can I use your super computer to find a 13 digit prime number? A time lapse later, the computer is overheaded or explodes.
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Old 2008-09-28, 23:11   Link #830
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Not sure if anyone got this yet: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...vpCugD93FSFT00

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Old 2008-09-30, 01:12   Link #831
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Melamine tainting gang arrested in China ... apparently they were telling their customers (diary farmers) that melamine would up the protein levels in their milk to let them pass standards tests. Some of the farmers were arrested as well...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7643391.stm
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Old 2008-09-30, 01:16   Link #832
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there are going to be excutions, lots
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Old 2008-10-01, 23:56   Link #833
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The bailout, McCain, Obama, Palin are dominating the news. However, I saw this on Yahoo's front page, thought it might be a nice change of pace.


Quote:
Spanish report ties Pakistan spy agency to Taliban By PAUL HAVEN, Associated Press Writer
Wed Oct 1, 4:14 PM ET



MADRID, Spain - Western intelligence agencies have long suspected that elements of Pakistan's spy service have aided the Taliban in Afghanistan, but a Spanish government report leaked to the media appears to be the first published assessment that spells out such cooperation.

The August 2005 report says Pakistan's shadowy Inter-Services Intelligence agency helped the Taliban procure roadside bombs and may even have provided training and intelligence to the Taliban in camps set up on Pakistani soil.

The Pakistani agency, known as the ISI, planned to have the Taliban use the explosives "to assassinate high-ranking officials" in Afghanistan, the report said.

It also warned of possible advanced training camps in Pakistan "where the Taliban receive training, help and intelligence from the ISI and where they are also developing new kinds" of improvised explosive devices. The report said the Taliban had also been receiving help from al-Qaida.

The document, which was obtained by Cadena Ser radio and posted on the station's Web site Wednesday, was marked "confidential" and topped with the Defense Ministry seal and the title of Spain's military intelligence agency.

A Defense Ministry spokesman refused to comment on the report, saying the ministry does not discuss intelligence issues. Cadena Ser did not say how it got the document.

While there is wide agreement among Western officials that at least some elements of Pakistani intelligence have aided the Taliban, the Spanish report appears to be the first time a Western government has spelled out the link.

A 2006 report by a British Defense Ministry think-tank discussed an ISI-Taliban link and said the Pakistani spy agency was supporting terrorism in Afghanistan, but the opinions expressed in the document did not constitute official government policy.

Pakistan's army spokesman vehemently denied any connection Wednesday, saying the implication of a link between the ISI and the Taliban was "baseless, unfounded and part of a malicious, well-orchestrated propaganda campaign to malign the ISI."

The agency "is the first line of defense of Pakistan and certain quarters are attempting to weaken our national intelligence system," the spokesman, Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas, told The Associated Press.

The Pakistani spy agency has helped kill or capture several top al-Qaida leaders since 2001, but there are lingering doubts about its loyalty, not least because its agents helped build up the Taliban in the 1990s.

And despite Wednesday's strong denial, a Pakistani government spokeswoman acknowledged in August that the government needs to root out Taliban sympathizers from its intelligence service.

Such agents "act on their own in ways that are not in convergence" with Pakistan's interests or policies, said the spokeswoman, Sherry Rehman. "We need to identify these people and weed them out."

U.S. intelligence agencies suspect rogue elements may still be giving Taliban militants sensitive information to aid in their growing insurgency in Afghanistan, even though officially Pakistan is a U.S. ally in fighting terrorism.

Some analysts say elements in the spy agency may want to retain the Taliban as a bulwark against longtime rival India and believe Pakistan's strategic interests are best served if Afghanistan remains a weak state.

India and Afghanistan — and reportedly the U.S. — suspect the ISI of involvement in the July 7 bombing outside the Indian Embassy in Kabul, which killed more than 60 people. Pakistan denies the allegations.

Fernando Reinares, a terrorism analyst at the Elcano Royal Institute in Madrid and former chief counterterrorism adviser at Spain's Interior Ministry, said the document appeared to be an internal report intended for high-level officials.

The "confidential" designation severely restricts access to the document, though it is not the highest level of secrecy available for official Spanish documents.

Reinares said Spain has developed a strong military and police intelligence operation in Pakistan, particularly since the terror attacks in Madrid on March 11, 2004. Spain has about 800 soldiers deployed in northwest Afghanistan.

Reinares said the report is in keeping with information held by other Western spy agencies.

"The intelligence services have done nothing more then confirm a reality which has also been reported by other Western agencies," he said.

___

Associated Press Writer Zarar Khan in Islamabad, Pakistan, contributed to this
report.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081001/...kistan_taliban
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Old 2008-10-01, 23:57   Link #834
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Now where is the CIA of the '50's when you need them??? Those guys would have killed Osama already, then cleaned the clocks of a few other key hardheads around the globe.


Yeah. They did such an excellent job on Che, Fidel and Allende.
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Old 2008-10-01, 23:59   Link #835
Cherudim Arche
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Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
The bailout, McCain, Obama, Palin are dominating the news. However, I saw this on Yahoo's front page, thought it might be a nice change of pace.




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081001/...kistan_taliban
It is pointless to deny.
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Old 2008-10-02, 22:48   Link #836
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Now where is the CIA of the '50's when you need them??? Those guys would have killed Osama already, then cleaned the clocks of a few other key hardheads around the globe.
Yes, because when people disagree with you, the best option is to kill them. That certainly wouldn't hurt America's image among the foreign stage, and it's a great way to show that we as a nation truly believe in freedom and equal opportunity for every human being.
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Old 2008-10-02, 22:51   Link #837
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Remember that they (communist/socialists) were NATIONAL SECURITY RISK at that time. CIA had no choice but to eliminate them.
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Old 2008-10-02, 23:14   Link #838
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Remember that they (communist/socialists) were NATIONAL SECURITY RISK at that time. CIA had no choice but to eliminate them.
So are any and all Muslims national security threats simply because a few attacked us? No, of course not, and this was true for many foreign or local communists and socialists during the Cold War. Simply being a communist or a socialist during the Cold War, did not mean that those citizens were communicating with Mother Russia (the only official "enemy" of America - Cuba, Korea, Vietnam, China, etc were not enemies of the US, rather we became their enemies (not all of them) based on our decisions, not theirs).

Last edited by james0246; 2008-10-03 at 00:30.
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Old 2008-10-02, 23:58   Link #839
Vexx
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Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Remember that they (communist/socialists) were NATIONAL SECURITY RISK at that time. CIA had no choice but to eliminate them.
The CIA had plenty of options ... they chose poorly because the long-range consequences got us where we are today. Almost any historical analysis of the CIA and the State Department makes one wonder why... Republican or Democrat we do such a lousy job in our geopolitical strategies. Often the answer is we have uninformed idiots making decisions who, for example, can't tell one faction from another.

Over and over again, we would install puppet dictators or support single strongmen in countries and before it was over - that entire country hates us. We just did it again in Pakistan. We do a lousy job covertly of maintaining connections with all the factions in any given country.
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Old 2008-10-03, 00:22   Link #840
Ledgem
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Remember that they (communist/socialists) were NATIONAL SECURITY RISK at that time. CIA had no choice but to eliminate them.
They were? Why were they a national security risk? But more to the point, who gets to decide what represents a national security risk? I mean, in my mind, killing a country's leader and then setting up your own only to face hatred from that entire country 10-20 years down the line is kind of, you know, a self-fulfilling prophecy of a security risk. But to be honest, I don't even buy into that security risk garbage: it's unethical.

How would you feel if China, Russia, Mexico, Canada - pick a country of your choice, came in and assassinated high-profile members of our government? Would you welcome them as liberators? Hell, almost everyone hates Bush at this point - you'd think that the assassin country would be welcomed as liberators, right? Would you welcome them as liberators?

As much as I dislike Bush, I wouldn't welcome a foreign country who offed him and a good portion of the government as liberators. I wouldn't trust them, nor anyone that they installed into the government. So tell me, why should someone in another country feel any different than you (I presume) and I would, simply because it's America that's doing the killing and installing?
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