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Old 2008-09-30, 11:04   Link #3041
Utau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring_sakura111 View Post
Haha, Yeah. Lelouch is a unique character. VEERY. Student > Leader of a terrorist group> Chick Magnet > Emperor > Immortal. WOW!
and don't forget, Lelouch = C.C.'s slave
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Old 2008-09-30, 11:06   Link #3042
KrimzonStriker
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Originally Posted by zalem View Post
So you are telling me Orange knew about this immortality plan and C.C. and Suzaku didn't? That seems highly improbable. And that idea points to Lelouch having known ahead of time about code, which I think most of the evidence in the show is against (the behavior of Lulu, C.C. and Suzaku are all against this...and these are the most important characters here and the ones who would definitely know the complete details of Zero Requiem). Orange is loyal, if Lelouch explained just how important ZR is to him and told Orange to obey his orders he would obey them.

Why would one want to ruin Lelouch's very noble and powerful sacrifice? At the very least not know of code, doesn't take away from his intent in this scene.
I can just as easily construe those scenes as one in which they did know of the plan myself, effectively Suzaku would still be killing him even if he was Immortal, C.C praying (odd no, considering what happened last time we saw her in a church) and crying can be interpreted as her making a wish or hoping for something to work. And yes Orange-kun is loyal, loyal to his lord above all else, last time Lelouch wanted to do something suicidal Jeremiah restrained him, and yet this time he doesn't even shed a tear but smirks instead? My take on Orange was that it didn't matter what Lelouch's ideology was, Jeremiah would follow him because he could follow him and him dying makes me question the whole scene now in that context. My interpretation and doubt, anyway

Hey, I think it was still noble and powerful even if he didn't actually die, effectively he would be dead now though, and on the plus side if he was immortal it would address concerns made by other posters that this peace he just helped establish would fall apart over time, well what if he was timeless in that case? Works out nicely I think anyway
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Old 2008-09-30, 11:12   Link #3043
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One of the reasons why I'm attracted to Lelouch and C.C because they're both very unique and fresh characters. You can't really find their characteristics anywhere in most animes. And I find CluClu's relationship very unique too. Not typical romance but bonded by promises, platonic feelings, mutual understanding. That is why I love them <3
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Old 2008-09-30, 11:12   Link #3044
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Originally Posted by zalem View Post
The only problem with this of course is if he was surprised then I think it would have made the situation very difficult for him on the platform when he revives. And that's the one point that seems to be unanswered from the "live" camp.

Anyway, I still think he is dead. But if he did miraculously live I think it was due to Charles' code and that he did NOT know about it when he died.
Not to mention having to fool the coroner into thinking he's dead, and then crawling out of his grave six feet under. Assuming they didn't try to cremate him and that would take one HELL of a poker face.
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Old 2008-09-30, 11:16   Link #3045
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Originally Posted by Salahuddin View Post
Not to mention having to fool the coroner into thinking he's dead, and then crawling out of his grave six feet under. Assuming they didn't try to cremate him and that would take one HELL of a poker face.
Who knows, a myriad of explanations could result in the recovery of his body. Good old Jeremiah for example with what forces he still has after his 'retreat'. And pfft, he can survive a burning if it comes to that
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Old 2008-09-30, 11:17   Link #3046
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Lulu is dead. It's a fact. Now we see speculations/theories that he might be that "cart"? driver or might be on C's world but fact is still fact. He is dead and he can't do anything anymore in the real world. His geass isn't like his mothers it would be too convinient for him if he had that.
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Old 2008-09-30, 11:17   Link #3047
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If Lelouch survives, he is really being unfair to Suzaku. Poor Suzaku will be bearing all the burden and guilt unknowingly as Lelouch took off touring the world with C.C. leading a carefree life. If he is watching the world, it is alright.

It's a different case, if he suddenly found himself alive after everyone thought that he died and Lelouch made it to where C.C. is and reunite with her.
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Old 2008-09-30, 11:20   Link #3048
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Originally Posted by Pink-chan View Post
If Lelouch survives, he is really being unfair to Suzaku. Poor Suzaku will be bearing all the burden and guilt unknowingly as Lelouch took off touring the world with C.C. leading a carefree life. If he is watching the world, it is alright.

It's a different case, if he suddenly found himself alive after everyone thought that he died and Lelouch made it to where C.C. is and reunite with her.
I think after all he's done to get the world to where it is then I would imagine he wouldn't simply leave it at that if he was still alive. As I said, the immortality thing provides a good solution to a lot of complaints that this new era of peace would fall over time, and in a generation or two with Suzaku paving the way initially while Lelouch is in hiding then over the course of time he can then be freed to do as you say, watch over the world as a silent, eternal guardian. Fits nicely if I think in those terms, especially in the sense that he would be sharing Suzaku's responsibility, only on a more long-term basis
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Old 2008-09-30, 11:22   Link #3049
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This is what Suzaku wants. He likes Saving people, reforming the world, justice and stuff like that. It's not unfair to Suzaku at all. he's still a soldier with his Identity hidden. Lelouch decided to what's good for all of them.
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Old 2008-09-30, 11:22   Link #3050
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
I think after all he's done to get the world to where it is then I would imagine he wouldn't simply leave it at that if he was still alive. As I said, the immortality thing provides a good solution to a lot of complaints that this new era of peace would fall over time, and in a generation or two with Suzaku paving the way initially while Lelouch is in hiding then over the course of time he can then be freed to do as you say, watch over the world as a silent, eternal guardian. Fits nicely if I think in those terms, especially in the sense that he would be sharing Suzaku's responsibility, only on a more long-term basis
Just hope he won't be discovered alive . Lelouch is too bright to be caught. Imagine how Suzaku will be if he saw Lelouch living a happy life somewhere while he has to hide behind a mask forever. I hope Lelouch will at least drop some hint to Suzaku if he survives. Suzaku deserves to know.
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Old 2008-09-30, 11:23   Link #3051
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Originally Posted by Pink-chan View Post
Just hope he won't be discovered alive . Lelouch is too bright to be caught. Imagine how Suzaku will be if he saw Lelouch living a happy life somewhere while he has to hide behind a mask forever.
Suzaku agrees to become a masked bringer of justice. It's his dream job ROFL.
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Old 2008-09-30, 11:26   Link #3052
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Originally Posted by Spring_sakura111 View Post
Suzaku agrees to become a masked bringer of justice. It's his dream job ROFL.
Yeah, at least Lelouch should show some responsibility to drop Suzaku some hints of his survival like their pulling up collar signal . Suzaku won't mind as it is way better than he is working hard behind a mask carrying a burden although it is his dream.
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Old 2008-09-30, 11:28   Link #3053
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
Hey, I think it was still noble and powerful even if he didn't actually die, effectively he would be dead now though, and on the plus side if he was immortal it would address concerns made by other posters that this peace he just helped establish would fall apart over time, well what if he was timeless in that case? Works out nicely I think anyway
I don't know...to me it's Mwu all over again and leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Screams copout. Taniguchi doesn't have the guts to kill off a major character like Lelouch and keep him dead. And it certainly makes the "death" scene much less sad/tragic. I actually cried during that scene, it was really well done. If he's alive...it has much less of an impact. I know when I watch episode 49 of GS it certainly doesn't feel the same now as it did when I first watched it.

Though I like Lelouch way more than Mwu so if Lulu was shown to be alive for sure I'd probably have more mixed feelings (happy he's alive, but annoyed at the improbable "resurrection" and copout by Taniguchi) rather then the pure rage I felt when Mwu came back.

So is your argument that he took Charles' code and knew about it or that he took C.C.'s code? I don't like the latter because it would mean that Lelouch would face eternity alone. I think that's a bit too much of a punishment for him. At least with the Charles thing he'll have C.C. by his side as he faces eternity.
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Old 2008-09-30, 11:30   Link #3054
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
Who knows, a myriad of explanations could result in the recovery of his body. Good old Jeremiah for example with what forces he still has after his 'retreat'. And pfft, he can survive a burning if it comes to that
Lol Lulu can't even keep a straight face when he sees Nana alive after he thinks she died. There's no way he could come to the realization of being immortal and then keep it when they threw him into the fire. He'd be crying louder than Nina lightning fast.

But then again, what do we know about immortality...maybe the pain will be dulled.

I'm believing he's dead right mainly because I feel the evidence is about 50-50 and that him being dead gives the ending more beauty and closure (aside from poor CC.
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Old 2008-09-30, 11:41   Link #3055
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Lol Lulu can't even keep a straight face when he sees Nana alive after he thinks she died. There's no way he could come to the realization of being immortal and then keep it when they threw him into the fire. He'd be crying louder than Nina lightning fast.

But then again, what do we know about immortality...maybe the pain will be dulled.

I'm believing he's dead right mainly because I feel the evidence is about 50-50 and that him being dead gives the ending more beauty and closure (aside from poor CC.
I think the opposite, because its kind of 50/50 I'll go with him being alive and if he is then I feel that it gives the most closure, including C.C of course
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Old 2008-09-30, 11:52   Link #3056
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What makes you guys think he body was burned or mutilated? First and foremost Zero would most likely decide what would happen to the body, and I doubt Suzaku would allow his best friend's body to be burned or mutilated after the sacrifice he made, not to mention that robbing Nunnaly of her brother, even if that was his wish was tough enough. Nobody would go as far as to deny him a proper burial. If he did indeed die, then most likely he was flown over to Britannia and given a marked grave alongside Suzaku's.
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Old 2008-09-30, 12:06   Link #3057
Salahuddin
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What makes you guys think he body was burned or mutilated? First and foremost Zero would most likely decide what would happen to the body, and I doubt Suzaku would allow his best friend's body to be burned or mutilated after the sacrifice he made, not to mention that robbing Nunnaly of her brother, even if that was his wish was tough enough. Nobody would go as far as to deny him a proper burial. If he did indeed die, then most likely he was flown over to Britannia and given a marked grave alongside Suzaku's.
It was just being discussed as a possibility, seeing as cremation is a common method for death. As for mutilation, I highly doubt that would happen as most of the core opposition were close to Lulu. And even if he was buried, if nobody but Lulu knew of his immortality, he'd still be trapped under a ton of dirt. Nobody would know that he needed rescuing, so no help would arrive.

CC may have realized it, but I don't think that is too likely either, or they gave him one of those really fancy caskets in a mini-palace, so he could have just walked out. Those geassed guards did need to do something after all. ^_^

This makes the "he found out after he 'died' theory" seriously flawed. And the theory about whether he knew he was immortal and lied to everyone just depends on how highly you think of Lulu.
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Old 2008-09-30, 13:19   Link #3058
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Where is this 50/50 coming from? Stop trying to be statisticians and making up statistics. He died, visibly, on screen. The highest probability is that he is dead, the probability that he is alive is brought forth by people grasping at possible scenarios of explanation, none of which fly all that far without people putting severe holes into the theory.

Activation on death theory -> Charles was never shown to be affected by Lelouch's Geass before shooting himself, after acquiring the code. As such, there is more basis to the idea that, since the Geass animation was missing, that he was no Geassed and that his immortality was immediately activated upon acquiring V.V.'s code.

Charles Code
-> Plausible, but falls to its knees in light of the fact that he had his Geass and that the activation on death theory has a rather large hole in its face.

The driver was oddly cut out
-> Or maybe, the focus wasn't on the driver, it was on the crane that was in the middle of the screen as the shot pans up... no couldn't be that, had to be the driver.

Do I actually care? No. I can take either possibility, but stop making up numbers.
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Old 2008-09-30, 13:33   Link #3059
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Well, that hole is thrown into question just because we never actually see from the distance, we know it hits but right afterward we pan out and back while he follows up and shoots himself. If you're talking about scene intention however Tael then I have to ask the same in which the whole scene with the cart driver amongst other things plays into this in comparison. Any, as said before, the ending seems to be open to a variety of interpretation and as such I will take Sunrise and Taniguichi up on that invitation as I have said before
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"That is why we must embrace carnage. In order to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more."- Lelouch Vi Britannia
http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/7050/zeroty5copieie4.jpg
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Old 2008-09-30, 13:36   Link #3060
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Well, that hole is thrown into question just because we never actually see from the distance, we know it hits but right afterward we pan out and back while he follows up and shoots himself. If you're talking about scene intention however Tael then I have to ask the same in which the whole scene with the cart driver amongst other things plays into this in comparison. Any, as said before, the ending seems to be open to a variety of interpretation and as such I will take Sunrise and Taniguichi up on that invitation as I have said before
No. There is no Geass rewiring. Every time the Geass has worked that has occurred, every time. The only thing that could make Charles special enough to not have the effect is if it had no affect at all. It doesn't matter if we pan out or not, there is no sign of him being Geassed ever. You cannot argue that he was Geassed if the very fundamental parts of Geassing never occurred. It's like arguing Person A died because Person B fired a gun. If Person A isn't shown taking the bullet, how can you argue that he died because of Person B?

Then why was the crane in the middle of the focus? I'm pretty sure panning up to the crane, with the crane then being focused on a few seconds later, puts the crane at a higher importance than a hat. There is nothing to substantiate that it is Lelouch, nothing concrete anyway.
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