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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier - Episode 25 Rating
Perfect 10 133 39.82%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 81 24.25%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 32 9.58%
7 out of 10 : Good 27 8.08%
6 out of 10 : Average 11 3.29%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 10 2.99%
4 out of 10 : Poor 4 1.20%
3 out of 10 : Bad 3 0.90%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.30%
1 out of 10 : Painful 32 9.58%
Voters: 334. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-10-01, 12:27   Link #1281
BetoJR
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THAT Animeblog's "review" of the series brings up some interesting points. Although I guess they're going to get flamed by Ranka's fans...
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Old 2008-10-01, 12:36   Link #1282
kujoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elandyll View Post
I have Already explained that this is exactly how the scene is supposed to look, and that it also makes perfect sense.

The Panoramic views that both Ranka and Sheryl have are NOT just windows giving straight out in the void, but also COMPUTER VIDEO SCREENS, magnifying and showing whatever the heck they want to be shown at moment x.
A visual ploy that I fell for as well unfortunately.

Simple explanation is, those monitors make it seems as if Sheryl and Ranka are looking towards the same direction, when in fact they aren't.
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Old 2008-10-01, 12:42   Link #1283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
THAT Animeblog's "review" of the series brings up some interesting points. Although I guess they're going to get flamed by Ranka's fans...
Crusader can more than handle it.
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Old 2008-10-01, 15:48   Link #1284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kujoe View Post
A visual ploy that I fell for as well unfortunately.

Simple explanation is, those monitors make it seems as if Sheryl and Ranka are looking towards the same direction, when in fact they aren't.
Here's how these things tend to get decided... The Writer and Director want to troll the audience and have an ambigious ending where NO girl gets picked. But in the last few eps, they have been having two of the chara get all snuggly, playing house etc... So they need to balance the triangle in order to set up the non-decision a few scenes later, at the end.

So in a story meeting the discussion would go something like this: The Director says, "We need to show Alto and Sheryl and Ranka in the same location so that as Alto leaves on his last run, he can acknowledge them both" to which the Writer responds, "Well, we can do that homage you wanted to DYRL by having Alto salute, but we'll put both girls in the scene, so it LOOKS like he's saluting them both." To which the director points out, "but Ranka is all the way over here in Mac Quarter. How the HECK will we show them in the same scene and have credibility?"

At this point the Story layout guy sketches out the scene and says, "We'll show the two ships side by side, bridges next to each other. Sheryl can see Ranka's stage and Ranka can see Sheryl's stage... All dramatic lighting and stuff. We put up screens that allow each character to see one another close up. Next we show Alto launching from Quarter and fly over to where Sheryl is. The camera angle crosses over the line to show Sheryl looking out towards Quarter with Ranka really big in a screen. Now we have both girls in the same scene, both on screens and in locations. Alto flies up next to Sheryl's stage, both girls seem to face him and we cut to the salute! Simple!"

The Director now points out that the bridges couldn't actually BE that close to each other, to which the story layout guy says "It'll only be for 3 seconds max. The audience will get the gist of the shot and not notice that its not physically possible. It gives you what you want. I don't know how else to do it better, unless we make the Quarter really small and far away like it really would be." To which the Director responds, "No... No, that's a good solution if we're not setting up something that creates more confusion, But since I want people to know that Alto is physically near Sheryl, let's cut to Ranka after the salute and show Sheryl in the monitor behind her, saluting back. That way the audience knows where Alto actually was. If Ranka doesn't salute, people will know that she wasn't close enough to see it. Plus, if we decide to have Sheryl win the triangle in the sequel, or movie edition, we can use this interchange as support for that later outcome." The writer laughs and the story guys says, you guys really like to mess with the audience...

Now.... THIS above is just as much conjecture and assumption as all of the hand wringing about coincidences, intentions, magnifying glass windows, moving screens and all that y'all have been postulating these many past pages. The only exception is that this is how these decisions actually get made in the back rooms and meetings. Like Tak said, it was an homage to the DYRL salute and nothing more. The staff just wanted to have BOTH girls in the shot in order to keep it in alignment with the outcome of the plot a few scenes later.
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Old 2008-10-01, 15:58   Link #1285
Joachim
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this whole "WHO SALUTE WHO" is getting stupid really fast...

WTF with ranka also nodding at alto's salute? seriously, even people who wasn't exactly paying any attention could see ranka isn't even responding to that. "A NOD?" fuck that, she is singing FFS, and sheryl stop her singing to salute.

Ok so why you nod to people that salute you? you salute him/her back is the correct reaction, not nodding or whatever that is, call me wearing shipping goggles, but you who deny it should question whether its your own damn not biased opinion or is it your damn shipping goggles that makes you think that

THE WHOLE REASONING IS DRIVING ME NUTS
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Old 2008-10-01, 16:17   Link #1286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mughi View Post
The staff just wanted to have BOTH girls in the shot in order to keep it in alignment with the outcome of the plot a few scenes later.
I think that's an important point that is all too often ignored here. The main problem I have with all the theories here is that people are drawing conclusions from things that aren't shown on screen. Stuff like "the VF is only magnified for Sheryl" aren't facts, they're assumptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim
WTF with ranka also nodding at alto's salute? seriously, even people who wasn't exactly paying any attention could see ranka isn't even responding to that.
The nod is definitely not a response to Alto's salute, that's just part of the song (Episode 17 confirms that).

Last edited by Radik; 2008-10-01 at 17:52. Reason: Fixed second quote
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Old 2008-10-01, 16:50   Link #1287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radik View Post
I think that's an important point that is all too often ignored here. The main problem I have with all the theories here is that people are drawing conclusions from things that aren't shown on screen. Stuff like "the VF is only magnified for Sheryl" aren't facts, they're assumptions.
No. It relates -directly- to what is shown to the spectator. It's the Ranka is reacting to Alto bla bla that constitute assumptions, because in that entire sequence there is not -one- picture where they are shown together in the same scene or adressing each other.
Do you see Alto's VF in Ranka's scenes? No. Did Ranka adress Alto? No. Did she give -any- sign of aknowledging Alto's presence? No.

My point- The video screens that form their panoramic vision of space showed us EXACTLY what the director, Mr Kawamori, intended us to see:
A direct relation between Sheryl and Alto (who do figure together in the same scene via his VF), and a relation singer to singer between Ranka and Sheryl (who appear to each other via screens and in the background).

Whew, the denseness continues...
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Old 2008-10-01, 16:52   Link #1288
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@everyone still debating the salute

Take a hint from the Japanese. They saw it, they got it, and they left it... alone. They, the otaku's who are much more qualified to argue Macross Romance/Mecha than you and I could ever hope to be, aren't making a fuss. They understood that it was a Sheryl x Alto moment so much that not even the Ranka camp there are contesting it.

--> Not even their Ranka camp <-- without their support, where does that put you?

If you still don't see it now you probably never will... and frankly, that makes you a moron and a troll. Feel free to go against all the evidence and just about the entirety of Japanese fandom with your "Alto saluted both" opinion.

Now on the other side of things for the "Alto saluted Sheryl" believer, I commend you for your effort... but we've already done our best and every moment more we try, we waste energy. Just drop the matter and move on, let them stew in their thoughts.

There are a lot of more interesting things about Episode 25 we can talk about.
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Last edited by TwilightHack; 2008-10-01 at 17:14.
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Old 2008-10-01, 17:02   Link #1289
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Agreed, I don't think I have anything else to say on the subject.
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Old 2008-10-01, 17:21   Link #1290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elandyll View Post
My point- The video screens that form their panoramic vision of space showed us EXACTLY what the director, Mr Kawamori, intended us to see
Indeed. Unfortunately, it seems impossible for people to agree on what exactly was shown to us. I only entered the debate here because people were being called trolls/morons even though they were stating points which I thought were obvious to anyone. Other people agreed with my view here as well, which at the very least shows that the whole sequence was open for interpretation. Apparently that's not something that everyone is willing to accept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightHack
If you still don't see it now you probably never will
Agreed.
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Old 2008-10-01, 17:23   Link #1291
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No one is debating lol...

At the end of the day, both sides have presented their opinions, and we all feel satisified with our argument/theory. We really should just drop this issue and move on.

Sincerely,
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Old 2008-10-01, 17:27   Link #1292
Tak
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If Ranka shipping was not involved, I bet this entire debate would not have happened.

Now, if Ranka shippers love to debate some more, feel welcomed to take it up to the Japanese fans. Debating with us isn't going to do you any good, really. We are not the producers of this show nor do we support its finance, and since arguing against Japanese otakus won't change anything, why do you think arguing with us will?

This debate initiated by typical Ranka baiters plainly show just how insecure they are, to the point where it is becoming rather pathetic.

- Tak
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Old 2008-10-01, 17:31   Link #1293
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We are not arguing lol, we are just presenting our point of view...

After all, this is still a macross forum, not for sheryl-fans only. And we are just trying to say what we saw...

okay okay, i will drop it now
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Old 2008-10-01, 17:37   Link #1294
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Just more baiting from Radik arguing that listed -facts- in my post are actually open to interpretation, but I'm going to let this slide, no point in continuing this mindblowing argument.
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Old 2008-10-01, 17:42   Link #1295
Joachim
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it has reached to a point where its not even mind blowing, this is mind raping...

Now i see how argument can lead to bloodbath..
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Old 2008-10-01, 17:45   Link #1296
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Great.

Now that THAT's over... can we please discuss what the heck this is?


I'd be inclined to say that it Vajra in origin... but the middle section reminds me too much of a mech design. I can't make up my mind either way and even then that still doesn't provide an answer as to what it is.

And how Battle Frontier went from...
to

I'm kind of confused as to how BF's got it's main gun back. I mean it was clearly in pieces, now its whole again... maybe perhaps there was a spare gun on Isle 1?

Also, why is BF in ship mode... the last time we saw it was during re-entry and I didn't think BF could transform mid flight in atmosphere. Unless its due to the new tech that the VF's use now while transforming.
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Old 2008-10-01, 17:51   Link #1297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radik View Post
...The nod is definitely not a response to Alto's salute, that's just part of the song (Episode 17 confirms that).
Radik, you just attributed a quote to me that was a statement made by Joachim. Please be more careful when making quotes. I'm happy to stand by my statements and defend them if needs be, but I really don't like my name being attached to the words of others. I doubt they like it either... QC your post before sending it to the thread.

Cheers! Mughi~
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Old 2008-10-01, 17:57   Link #1298
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Sorry about that Mughi, I edited my post to correct that mistake.
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Old 2008-10-01, 17:58   Link #1299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightHack View Post
Great.

Now that THAT's over... can we please discuss what the heck this is?


I'd be inclined to say that it Vajra in origin... but the middle section reminds me too much of a mech design. I can't make up my mind either way and even then that still doesn't provide an answer as to what it is.
Some people have said that it could be Protoculture/Bird Human related, but to me it does seem a bit more Vajra looking. I was wondering if it couldn't be a part of the Head of the Vajra Queen .. and .. maybe .. with bits of Grace attached to it ?(which would be what makes Brera smile)

Quote:
And how Battle Frontier went from...
to

I'm kind of confused as to how BF's got it's main gun back. I mean it was clearly in pieces, now its whole again... maybe perhaps there was a spare gun on Isle 1?

Also, why is BF in ship mode... the last time we saw it was during re-entry and I didn't think BF could transform mid flight in atmosphere. Unless its due to the new tech that the VF's use now while transforming.
Mmmh, maybe BF grabbed its gun back .. and .. uh. ... it looks prettier like this?
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Old 2008-10-01, 18:56   Link #1300
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Whoa... Just found something interesting

In the verse of Lion that started at 18:48, I knew something was make it more climactic other than the action. If you listen closely, starting at around18:59.50, Ranka is singing about just held "Ah"s, and sometimes changing pitch. God, whoever produced Macross is just GENIUS. Something so simple like that is able to change the entire feel of a song so much... Ooh, I want that arranged track! Even better, could we just have the soundtrack for the episode and no talking?
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