AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-10-03, 16:46   Link #861
Kamui4356
Aria Company
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Having Nazis in the US ICBM program did not stop USSR from launching the world's first ICBM. What's amazing is that USSR didn't need Nazi assistance.
Actually the Russians had Germans working for them as well, though not in as high a profile role as the Wernher von Braun had in the US program. Also many earily American and Soviet designs were based on the German V-2. Of course one shouldn't sell the soviet rocket program short. Their first successful design not directly based on the V-2 is still used today in modified form for space launches after all.
__________________
Kamui4356 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-04, 00:52   Link #862
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
With the loss of the Saturn V decades ago ... there's nothing yet that quite beats watching a Proton launch.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-04, 01:43   Link #863
mg1942
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
OJ goes away for life...

O.J. Simpson was found guilty Friday of all 12 counts in the armed robbery of two sports memorabilia dealers at a Las Vegas, Nevada, casino hotel last year.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/10/04/...ef=mpstoryview

...at least one man believes he's innocent (Thomas Riccio)
mg1942 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-04, 02:00   Link #864
Aoie_Emesai
♪♫ Maya Iincho ♩♬
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Unnecessary
Age: 28
Send a message via Yahoo to Aoie_Emesai
Battle to buy Wachovia heats up

Well... for us Wachovia bankers, seems like it's being bought by Well Fargo. Nothing should change, too much...
__________________

How to Give / Receive Criticism on your work / Like to draw? Come join Artists Alike
Visit my Deviantart Or Blog ~A Child should always surpass his/her parent, Remember.
Aoie_Emesai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-04, 10:51   Link #865
Ledgem
Love Yourself
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Now think in cold war terms... think back at the time when USSR was on equal footing with USA. No one ever predicted of sudden USSR collapse. Everyone thought East and West rivalry will go on forever. US leaders fully believed on the "domino effect", and that revolutoinary movements in American continent must be "contained" by any means (in form of "friendship", economic/sustained development assistance, or in worst case scenario... a CIA mission to "contain" Soviet-leaning revolutionary movements.)
I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the Cold War. Do you want it repeated? Do you understand what led up to it, and do you realize that the events that we're going through today (including terrorism and many anti-US sentiments) are a direct result of events that happened during the Cold War?

Quote:
As long as USSR was around, no one give a damn about the grievances against USA. At the end of the day, US is/was seen as the savior of the (free) world every time they "contain" revolutionary/socialist/communist movenets around the world.

This sounds crazy.... but think in Cold War terms to understand this.
Aside from the fact that I don't think that what you're saying is 100% correct, it's irrelevant. Is the US seen as the "savior of the world" today? I'm under the impression that the US is seen as a dangerous nation that is willing to attack other nations even without probable cause. Worse, we have nuclear weaponry and an egotistical mindset that if a country doesn't follow our form of government, they must be "liberated." How do you think other countries feel about that? Do you think they won't feel that they should gain nuclear powers even sooner, for their own security? Creating an arms race for nuclear technology and stirring up negative sentiments against our own country - you don't think that's a risk of national security proportions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Funny, that sounds like Iraq to me, only they were a "global" risk, what with having weapons that every other powerful country has tucked away in some bunker somewhere. Wonder if that means you were against it?
Yes, I was. When the US initially went into Iraq it was on the premise that Iraq had "weapons of mass destruction" and that they were going to use them against us. I wasn't following world news so heavily at the time, but it felt a little out of place to me - Saddam panicked and allowed weapons inspectors in and began to swear that he would comply with international rules, but even while the inspectors were in Iraq we (the US) were preparing to attack them. The inspectors were ultimately withdrawn and shortly thereafter we began the attack.

No weapons were found. All reports had claimed that even if there were weapons, Iraq lacked the technology to attack the US with them.

What if Iraq had weapons? I'm sure a number of people would be feeling a bit more smug right now, but I still don't think that I would have supported it. Would you tell me that we should attack anyone who has weapons? That raises a new issue: who gets to decide who has weapons, and who doesn't? Understand that it's easy to feel that no other country should have weapons when yours is the one holding the weapons, but how would you feel if you were in a smaller country or a less-armed country?

Quote:
But the thing is the West has a more established democratic system than let's say Iraq, so for a foreign country to try to instill new people of power would be difficult, (short of already having links with people in the inside) than a country who's now implementing this system for the first time, I'd think. I'm sure we'd have politicians (even in the opposing parties) who could already take up the posts.
You didn't take my hypothetical example far enough. When I talked about inserting people into the government, that simply meant being ruled over by either foreign people or natives chosen by a foreign power. After all, this is what the US has done in countless countries. America has instilled their own dictators (who were often ousted not long after), and even in Iraq and Afghanistan where democratic systems were installed the initial members of the government were chosen by the US.

So I'll ask it again: if a foreign power came in and "liberated" you from your current form of government, either by replacing the people within it or by creating an entirely new system, how would you feel? Don't make it too hypothetical, either, because you'll lose touch with your true feelings. Pick an existing country - perhaps one that you're already fearful or mistrusting of - and imagine if they set up their current form of government in your country. Even for all of the failings of your current government, would you feel comfortable with your new government?
__________________
Ledgem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-07, 19:10   Link #866
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
More great Asian Democracy stories.

Quote:
The group accuses the Somchai government of being a proxy for the former prime minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, who was elected in 2001 on a populist platform. He was deposed in a coup in 2006 amid accusations of corruption and cronyism and fled to exile in London in August.


The alliance says it wants to modify the country’s democratic system to weaken the electoral power of the rural poor, who formed the base of support for Mr. Thaksin and now for the governing People Power Party.


“I’m here to chase out the government,” said Piyanuch Klangrach, 19, a computer science student. .

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/08/wo...08thai.html?hp
Anyone form Thailand or that region knows exactly what the so call freedom alliance wants? And what do they plan to do once they are in power and the poor people they want to excluded decided to protest against them?
__________________

Last edited by Xellos-_^; 2008-10-07 at 20:26.
Xellos-_^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-07, 20:24   Link #867
Aoie_Emesai
♪♫ Maya Iincho ♩♬
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Unnecessary
Age: 28
Send a message via Yahoo to Aoie_Emesai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
Anyone form Thailand or that region knows exactly what the so call freedom alliance wants? And what do they plan to do once they are in power and the poor people the exlcuded decided to protest against them?
This is sad indeed for those that comes from that region. Gahh... I hate... never mind. I don't think words can describe my hate right now.
__________________

How to Give / Receive Criticism on your work / Like to draw? Come join Artists Alike
Visit my Deviantart Or Blog ~A Child should always surpass his/her parent, Remember.
Aoie_Emesai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-08, 02:52   Link #868
Autumn Demon
~
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ithaca, NY
Age: 25
The internet is being used as a tool to concentrate mass hatred on individuals in China.
http://www.economist.com/world/asia/...ry_id=12342705
Autumn Demon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-08, 06:42   Link #869
brocko
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
Anyone form Thailand or that region knows exactly what the so call freedom alliance wants? And what do they plan to do once they are in power and the poor people they want to excluded decided to protest against them?
They want the current government out because it's corrupt. Those with a good memory or have been following the events with regards to Thailands political situation may remember the military coup back in '06 that led to the exile of the then current Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Well this is basically a continuation of that. Even though he has been exiled in London, his party is still in power due to the misguided rural support. They had an election after the coup but due to the rurals misguided support the same corrupt government is still in power, which brings the whole damn thing back to square one and makes the coup in the first place all for naught... =/ Their main aim is not the suppression of the poor rural, but rather the ousting of a corrupt government and a call for Thai democracy.

Also I'd like to encourage people to visit and read the source provided or at least part of it in order to understand some context in which Xellos-_^'s quote was under.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/08/wo...08thai.html?hp

They've been on a mass non-stop protest for a good while now (since May i think the article mentioned?) and its a shame that things had to get violent now when it had been peaceful for the majority of it =/
__________________

http://www.freerice.com/ - For each word you get right, 10 grains of rice is donated through the UN to help end world hunger.

Last edited by brocko; 2008-10-08 at 07:09.
brocko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-08, 07:13   Link #870
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
That's democracy for you. When a "misguided rural" has as much vote as an "armed soldier".
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-08, 10:59   Link #871
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by brocko View Post
They want the current government out because it's corrupt. Those with a good memory or have been following the events with regards to Thailands political situation may remember the military coup back in '06 that led to the exile of the then current Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Well this is basically a continuation of that. Even though he has been exiled in London, his party is still in power due to the misguided rural support. They had an election after the coup but due to the rurals misguided support the same corrupt government is still in power, which brings the whole damn thing back to square one and makes the coup in the first place all for naught... =/ Their main aim is not the suppression of the poor rural, but rather the ousting of a corrupt government and a call for Thai democracy.

Also I'd like to encourage people to visit and read the source provided or at least part of it in order to understand some context in which Xellos-_^'s quote was under.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/08/wo...08thai.html?hp

They've been on a mass non-stop protest for a good while now (since May i think the article mentioned?) and its a shame that things had to get violent now when it had been peaceful for the majority of it =/
No offense but form several of the articles i have read on CNN and the NYTimes. The freedom alliance pretty much wants to excluded the rural poor form voting because they support the Thaskin's party.

Instead of trying to find out why the rural poor supports Thaskin's party and come up with programs to draw up away the support of the rural poor, they decided to stage a coup. Make no mistake about it this is a coup attempt just without the guns. The freedom alliance wants to overthrow a legitimate government voted in by the majority of the people of Thailand. Establish thier own government and exclude anyone else that disagree with them.

form older NyTimes articles:

Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/wo...hp&oref=slogin

“The People’s Alliance for Democracy is not a pro-democracy movement,” said Charles Keyes, an expert on Thailand at the University of Washington in Seattle, referring to the group that is leading the protests.

It is taken for granted here that the pro-Thaksin government would win a new election because it has the support of the rural and urban poor, a clear majority of the Thai electorate. This makes a democratic election less attractive for the anti-government group. Protest leaders mostly speak for the middle class, in an alliance of convenience with a royalist establishment that feels threatened by the emerging power of the poor.
Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/01/wo....html?ref=asia

The protests against Mr. Samak’s government are being led by a group that calls itself the People’s Alliance for Democracy, which accuses him of corruption and of being a puppet of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted in a nonviolent coup two years ago.

On Sunday, Amorn Amornratananont, a leader of the People’s Alliance, said the group wanted to overhaul the voting system to dilute the power of less-educated people.
“We need a revolution,” he said as he signed autographs on the lawn of the prime minister’s compound, where thousands of protesters are camped in a carnival-like atmosphere.
One of the protesters seeking his autograph, Phloenphit Likitikul, 34, expressed similar concerns about poor voters.
“It’s too easy to manipulate poor people,” she said. “We’re a democracy, but we’re not really ready for it.”
the freedom alliance can claim all they want that Thaskin's government but at least he was elected in a fair election by the majority of the countries people.
__________________
Xellos-_^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-08, 15:25   Link #872
Autumn Demon
~
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ithaca, NY
Age: 25
Everything i've read says that the People's Alliance for Democracy is about as anti-democratic as you can get while still claiming to support democracy. They believe the rural citizens of Thailand are too stupid to participate in a democracy and elections so they want many of the seats in the legislative branch to be reserved for the military and aristocrats, as this article points out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Economist
Some in the crowds at PAD rallies are liberals, appalled both at the abuses of power in Mr Thaksin’s government and the sad signs that Mr Samak’s is no better. The PAD’s leaders, however, are neither liberals nor democrats. A gruesome bunch of reactionary businessmen, generals and aristocrats, they demand not fresh elections, which they would lose, but “new politics”—in fact a return to old-fashioned authoritarian rule, with a mostly appointed parliament and powers for the army to step in when it chooses. They argue that the rural masses who favour Mr Thaksin and Mr Samak are too “ill-educated” to use their votes sensibly. This overlooks an inconvenient electoral truth: the two prime ministers had genuinely popular policies, such as cheap health care and credit.
Autumn Demon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-08, 23:07   Link #873
brocko
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯
None taken Xellos-_^. To be honest though, I havn't really been following much on the issue myself, my dad listens to a live podcast set up by the Peoples Alliance of Democracry, 24/7 where all they do is just hate on the government. It's refreshing to see the other side of things every once in a while, but frankly I'm sick and tired of this whole mess already. Like that one Tuk Tuk driver mentioned “The economy is bad. Fewer tourists are coming to Thailand. There are traffic jams all over the place...They should talk this out, and the demonstrations should stop.”

I do question from time to time though the PAD rallies, but in the minds of the protesters they believe that they are fighting for democracy. Although true, the current government was democratically elected, also keep in mind this is the same government that was thrown out for corruption (i.e being non-democratic) two years ago. Naturally when this same government is back in power, the same people who opposed them and drove em out 2 years ago will also be back. And with the recent violence within the past few days, they are more determined than ever.

And actually we don't even know for sure yet if the current government was fairly elected or not.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/wo...hp&oref=slogin
Quote:
...Shortly afterward, in another blow to the government, the Election Commission recommended that Mr. Samak’s People Power Party be disbanded for electoral fraud.

The vote in the five-member commission was unanimous in recommending that the Supreme Court disband the party because of vote buying in last December’s general election.

The ruling, which could bring down the government, could take months to make its way through the courts...
__________________

http://www.freerice.com/ - For each word you get right, 10 grains of rice is donated through the UN to help end world hunger.
brocko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-08, 23:40   Link #874
Irenicus
Le fou, c'est moi
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 25
brocko: Isn't there an ongoing "controversy" about how the police's breakup methods like using "tear gas" *cough* can cause mass injuries that somehow happens the most among the PAD's security forces that were defending the rallies?

I'd personally advise you against taking the PAD's side though. In a fair Democracy it's supposed to be one head-one vote, not my interest is more important than your interest so let's carry out a coup d'etat every decade or so. I myself was rather disgusted with the coup d'etat even if Thaksin was trying to play Ferdinand Marcos with the whole nation.

And like almost all mass movements, though the PAD's common rally participant might be genuinely convinced he or she is defending Democracy, the leadership is really just a pack of hyena scums. What's the alternative between a corrupt government and a corrupt wants-to-be-government though? Yet another royal intervention? I'm sick of that too no matter how much Thai people love their precious King. Another coup? The military can fucking go to hell.

Caveat, however, to Western readers: the rural attitude in Thailand is still very much surprisingly, hmm, feudalized, viewing local strongmen (who often become politicians) as people deserving of deference rather than, say, in the USA where all are equal rich or poor. The voter fraud is widespread, the equivalent of the USA's pork barrel being far, far more obvious. Pretty much still Tammany Hall over there. The "misguided rural poor" statement should be understood from that perspective, and that Bangkok residents consider themselves somewhat more competent politically and more democratic in sentiment. Whether that is true or not is up to debate, considering how easy it is for PAD leadership to manipulate hundreds of thousands of the city folks.

Oh, and the discontent that is being utilized by the movement came very much from Prime Minister Thaksin S.' heavy-handed measures attempting to monopolize pretty much the entire country for himself. It naturally wasn't well received. When you start out with an economy where there are three competing phone companies, and prices and services are reasonable, and when you end up with a monopoly of the PM's family, with sucky services and high prices; and when it's not just an industry or two, but a lot more and crucially indeed the internal news sources; and when some of the elite are dissatisfied with being left out of the spoiling game...

Yeah.
Irenicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-09, 00:25   Link #875
brocko
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
brocko: Isn't there an ongoing "controversy" about how the police's breakup methods like using "tear gas" *cough* can cause mass injuries that somehow happens the most among the PAD's security forces that were defending the rallies?
haha i take it you've been listening in on it too aye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
I'd personally advise you against taking the PAD's side though. In a fair Democracy it's supposed to be one head-one vote, not my interest is more important than your interest so let's carry out a coup d'etat every decade or so. I myself was rather disgusted with the coup d'etat even if Thaksin was trying to play Ferdinand Marcos with the whole nation.

And like almost all mass movements, though the PAD's common rally participant might be genuinely convinced he or she is defending Democracy, the leadership is really just a pack of hyena scums. What's the alternative between a corrupt government and a corrupt wants-to-be-government though? Yet another royal intervention? I'm sick of that too no matter how much Thai people love their precious King. Another coup? The military can fucking go to hell.
Advise taken and you do make rather good points. I just wish this whole fucking thing would end already. I seriously hate it when I see the country going through such turmoil...
__________________

http://www.freerice.com/ - For each word you get right, 10 grains of rice is donated through the UN to help end world hunger.
brocko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-13, 04:47   Link #876
mg1942
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
"loli" may disappear in 3 years?

Spoiler for Serious business (monetary too!):

Last edited by mg1942; 2008-10-13 at 05:57.
mg1942 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-13, 06:33   Link #877
Solace
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
fictional children
Hmm. I wonder how this opinion will be received:

Keep it legal. Some of that stuff is just sick...but at what point do you draw a line? Don't misunderstand me, I won't justify much of it as "art", but I do believe there is a mental release (and a perverted one of course) that is involved with such depictions. Do people enjoy a gory movie for plot content? No, they watch it because they want to see people graphically butchered. I believe this is the same way with sexual fetishes.

I don't approve of real life exploitation of children but there is nothing (as far as I know) that ties fictional depictions of such acts to the real thing. Outside of the actual child molester having such material what about the same material in the hands of many people who do not commit such acts? I can't swallow the argument that availability of such material encourages people to commit such acts in real life. That's just placing the blame on the material and not the person who couldn't control his (or her) urges.

It's gotten to a point where the laws governing what is considered child porn and what isn't are becoming arbitrary - that is, the laws are so general that they allow officials to press charges on whatever they consider to be exploitation by an adult. Here's one example:

http://news.cnet.com/Federal-case-ma...3-6139524.html

Like I said, I don't approve of child porn or pedophilia in real life, but I think fiction falls squarely under free speech.
__________________
Solace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-13, 11:47   Link #878
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Spoiler for Serious business (monetary too!):
I think you're mistakingly (or intentionally?) conflating the rather amorphous and broad term "loli" with the more specific area of child porn.

Virtual child porn doesn't refer to "cartoons", it refers to a new trend of using Photoshop and other art tools to hyper-realistically simulate child pornography.

As far as ""anime depicting sexual abuse" --- which series would that include? Nanoha? Shuffle!? Would it include series that depict such abuse as a "Bad Thing To Do"?

I'd argue that virtually none of the series often labeled "loli" that get fansubbed and discussed on the main anime forums meet the criteria. Pretty messy slope for them to be just waving their arms.

The last sentence... if you know japanese bureaucracy... is classical "nothing is going to happen for quite some time while we wait to see if the noisy people go away".

@Solace's link to the federal case: Sounds pretty much like Alice Martin (the US attorney) has a lot of goblins in her head, I wonder if she's one of the attorneys illegally brought in to replace an attorney canned for not being a "Bushie" ..... that's a year 2006 article though... any news on how it turned out?

Last edited by Vexx; 2008-10-13 at 11:59.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-13, 11:50   Link #879
Trogdor Jube
Surprise buttsecks?
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: In the Ca to the Na to the Da
Age: 28
http://www.japanator.com/elephant/post.phtml?pk=8753
Man arrested for possession of manga.
__________________
Trogdor Jube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-13, 11:54   Link #880
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor Jube View Post
http://www.japanator.com/elephant/post.phtml?pk=8753
Man arrested for possession of manga.
what did he order?
__________________
Xellos-_^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
current affairs, discussion, international, news

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:14.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.