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Old 2008-09-16, 17:44   Link #221
Wesley84
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I think Vajra should be refered to as singular for the time being. It's not even a group conciousness. It's just one entity micromanaging the entire organism. Sort of like walking and chewing bubblegum to the millionth power or so.
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Old 2008-09-16, 17:48   Link #222
Ithekro
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This debate sounds like some of the rounds we had during history courses over the reasons and justifications of several different wars. Also some interpetations over who started the Second World War and why and with whom. I'm not talking about the war in Europe either...I mean the longer war in Asia and the Pacific...you know, the one that started in 1931 China and lasted until 1945 (or even the mid-1970s for a few unlucky souls that never got their orders to stand down). Those debates can really mess with your head and notions you might have from your current history textbooks.

Same problem. Who started it and why? It isn't always a matter of who shot first if the one that shot first was provoked into shooting. Sometimes the first shot isn't what starts the war. It could the the thousandth shot...it was just the first one that was really noticed, or had a civilian impact. It could also be years between the first shot and the real start of the war. Some wars are like that. One just has to figure out (hopefully in the next two episodes) just what is going on and perhaps the truth behind this conflict.

As for the double standard....that is normal in war. Propaganda works, and some people are wired to see things certain ways and others see it differently. Sometimes that is the cause of a war.
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Old 2008-09-16, 20:23   Link #223
squaresphere
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... plan in simple it's probably all Grace's fault. We saw through the flash back in ep 23 that the vajra and humantradi in the research fleet did live in harmony for a while. IE chibi ranka singing on the planet with the vajra in the background.

Grace proposed that something be "sacrificed" to further their science which Ranshe vehemently opposed. Next thing we see is Macross Global crashing in to the planet.
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Old 2008-09-16, 20:30   Link #224
Wesley84
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What doesn't make sense is that Vajra is automatically drawn by fold jumps and communications. If it was really intelligent, it wouldn't be lead around like a dog like that. Or a moth to a flame.
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Old 2008-09-17, 02:57   Link #225
Paul Hausser
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Originally Posted by squaresphere View Post
... plan in simple it's probably all Grace's fault. We saw through the flash back in ep 23 that the vajra and humantradi in the research fleet did live in harmony for a while. IE chibi ranka singing on the planet with the vajra in the background.

Grace proposed that something be "sacrificed" to further their science which Ranshe vehemently opposed. Next thing we see is Macross Global crashing in to the planet.
The pattern seems oddly similar. Humankind meets another intelligent species and studies it. Certain less than savory individuals plot to exploit said new species and cause war in the process. Familiar, seen it in quite a few past works. And the theme itself dates back to the Conquistadors, or maybe even further back.
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Old 2008-10-04, 08:52   Link #226
Tabris
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You know, I never noticed that the yellow vajra had claws in the deculture edition too.
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Old 2008-10-04, 09:51   Link #227
grss1982
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You know, I never noticed that the yellow vajra had claws in the deculture edition too.
You see those claws as well in Episode 14 right about the point that Luca was about to be pwn3d by one those yellow Vajra.
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Old 2008-10-04, 09:55   Link #228
Tabris
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I know that, but I remember when episode 1 aired, the claws destroying a 171 quite a few people made remarks about the claws and how they weren't in the deculture edition.

I watched it again a few nights ago and was like...wait a second.

You know what they never got around to explaining, what was up with the Ranshe vision with the Vajra queen. That, or it was just the vajra projecting their memories for Ranka. I don't know.
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Old 2008-10-04, 12:22   Link #229
Wesley84
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Ranka pretended that didn't happen. So should we.
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Old 2008-10-04, 17:12   Link #230
Tabris
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What were we talking about again?
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Old 2008-10-04, 19:51   Link #231
Wesley84
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What were we talking about again?
Her traumatic kidnapping she told everyone about in detail.
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Old 2008-10-04, 19:59   Link #232
Tabris
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Not the reply I was expecting >:c
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Old 2008-10-04, 20:01   Link #233
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You two have completely lost me.
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Old 2008-10-04, 20:08   Link #234
Wesley84
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I'm just saying, Ranka didn't seem to appreciate anything that ever happened to her, and was merely content to follow Alto around. She'd say "Why me?" "Save me!", but never tried to figure anything out until she absolutely had to and personally couldn't take anymore.

So, anything the Vajra did or how they seemed to conduct themselves, it's all meaningless and it's just there to confuse the viewer.
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Old 2008-10-04, 21:35   Link #235
Shadow Kira01
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At first thought, I actually thought the little green pet Ranka has was a Carbuncle from the Final Fantasy series, but it turned out to be a vajra.

Regarding the vajra's communication network, I find it to greatly resemble the collective consciousness of the UMN in Xenosaga. However, the last episode contradicts the original theory and thus, it bears no resemblance.
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Old 2008-10-04, 21:38   Link #236
squaresphere
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Regarding the Vajra and Ranka... basically they were pissed cause they kept getting a mating call but the only thing they found where confusing metal things that kept trying to blow them up.
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Old 2008-10-04, 21:40   Link #237
Wesley84
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Yeah, the Vajra just suck all over the place. It's like they read up on all the different bug races in Sci-fi, and selectively picked from each one on an episode to episode basis. I imagine everything before the final episode was bullcrap, and shouldn't be believed, and the final episode should be quickly disregarded the next time something new comes up.
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Old 2008-10-16, 03:28   Link #238
Xealmox
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the vaijra(atleast how they show them on the series) are really unbeliefbly stupid

if they where all connected to each other and acted as a single organism then they would be way smarter and probably evolve a lot faster to counter the weapons used against them
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