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Old 2008-10-02, 06:58   Link #2001
ZeroSama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy_Bunny View Post
Now that I rewatched the fight, I can see it was more of a draw then anything else... If not for the Tristan the Guren woulda been smashed to smithereens as its float system was destroyed and Karen was passed out. But DAMN what a fight, if only they had machines of similar specs =(. I so wanted Suzaku to have a clear victory and not this on the sort of losing side but a tie finish.
If Suzaku got a mech of the same spec then to be fair Kallen would have to have a live geass and hax physical abilities that stop people passing out, allow them to dodge bullets and jump over KMF's as well.

It would then either end with Kallen winning or most probably a draw.
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Old 2008-10-02, 15:47   Link #2002
bladeofdarkness
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does anyone else think kallen might be keeping the guren (whats left of it) in ashford and fixing it up like an old classic car (like the ganimade was kepts there)
the frame was mostly inteact after the fight with the lancelot (arms and head are replaceble)
and since she has the USB we know its not with the OOBK (since no one could pilot it without the USB)
and kallen was more attached to her machine on a personal level then any other pilot in the show to their machine (even telling it she's sorry when it looked like they were about to crash) so its not likely she'd just discard it if it was still around
she might be fixing it up as a pet project (she does have enough technical skill to maintain it during the year lelouch was gone) and as seveal sources state shes something of a KMF freak (even from before getting the guren)
it was a gift from lelouch after all (the only one he gave her, and one she tresured very much)
and it is an historical machine (the one who "killed" the KOZ)
she might not be a fighter pilot now that the war is over
but she might still be in love with that machine
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Old 2008-10-04, 00:58   Link #2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
does anyone else think kallen might be keeping the guren (whats left of it) in ashford and fixing it up like an old classic car (like the ganimade was kepts there)
the frame was mostly inteact after the fight with the lancelot (arms and head are replaceble)
and since she has the USB we know its not with the OOBK (since no one could pilot it without the USB)
and kallen was more attached to her machine on a personal level then any other pilot in the show to their machine (even telling it she's sorry when it looked like they were about to crash) so its not likely she'd just discard it if it was still around
she might be fixing it up as a pet project (she does have enough technical skill to maintain it during the year lelouch was gone) and as seveal sources state shes something of a KMF freak (even from before getting the guren)
it was a gift from lelouch after all (the only one he gave her, and one she tresured very much)
and it is an historical machine (the one who "killed" the KOZ)
she might not be a fighter pilot now that the war is over
but she might still be in love with that machine
Lelouch most likely ordered the remaining parts of the Guren to be destroyed when he defeated the Black Knights. Or at the very least locked up and put away so it couldn't be repaired and used against him.

After his "death" there is the possibility they repaired and rebuilt the Guren since it showed Shen-Hu repaired. However, it would take Laksharta, Lloyd, and Cecile (all three of them) to completely repair it. And I still don't see Laksharta willing to cooperate with Lloyd or Cecile. She gives me the impression that she doesn't like others tinkering with her creations. She seemed plenty mad the first time she saw Guren SEITEN.

So Guren SEITEN may just be a one time collaboration that will most likely not happen again. In a "post Lelouch" world, such a powerful knightmare frame may not be needed either since Lancelot Albion is gone.
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Old 2008-10-04, 01:05   Link #2004
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by Double 120% View Post
Lelouch most likely ordered the remaining parts of the Guren to be destroyed when he defeated the Black Knights. Or at the very least locked up and put away so it couldn't be repaired and used against him.

After his "death" there is the possibility they repaired and rebuilt the Guren since it showed Shen-Hu repaired. However, it would take Laksharta, Lloyd, and Cecile (all three of them) to completely repair it. And I still don't see Laksharta willing to cooperate with Lloyd or Cecile. She gives me the impression that she doesn't like others tinkering with her creations. She seemed plenty mad the first time she saw Guren SEITEN.

So Guren SEITEN may just be a one time collaboration that will most likely not happen again. In a "post Lelouch" world, such a powerful knightmare frame may not be needed either since Lancelot Albion is gone.
why would lelouch destroy it for no reason
kallen was in jail (and no one else could pilot it)
and it was junked anyway
why destroy it (even more so when he knows what it means to kallen)

i never suggested that Lloyd and Laksharta would repeir it
i say kallen could be keeping it and fixing it up by herself (to the extent that she can, probably no radeation arm or energy wings,maybe Laksharta could even give her spare parts and a float unit)
she does have the technical skill to maintain it for a whole year by herself (as well as her old glassgo)
and she is a KMF freak (from several sources)
think of it as fixing up an old car
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Old 2008-10-04, 01:26   Link #2005
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
why would lelouch destroy it for no reason
kallen was in jail (and no one else could pilot it)
and it was junked anyway
why destroy it (even more so when he knows what it means to kallen)

i never suggested that Lloyd and Laksharta would repeir it
i say kallen could be keeping it and fixing it up by herself (to the extent that she can, probably no radeation arm or energy wings,maybe Laksharta could even give her spare parts and a float unit)
she does have the technical skill to maintain it for a whole year by herself (as well as her old glassgo)
and she is a KMF freak (from several sources)
think of it as fixing up an old car
*sigh*

I know you didn't suggest Lloyd or Cecile. I did. No need to get snippy. I really don't want to argue.

Lelouch would destroy it so it can't be repaired and be used against him later. Lelouch isn't a sentimental mech enthusiast like you or me. With Lancelot Albion gone, and Suzaku "dead", it wouldn't be very smart to leave such a powerful Knightmare frame around to be repaired. For Zero Requiem, it's the people that matter, and NOT the survival of knightmare frames.

I know you really want the Guren to survive and you have hopes of Kallen repairing it. I just gave my opinion that it's unlikely. Guren SEITEN isn't like an old Glassglow (or old car as you put it). It's the most powerful 9th Generation Knightmare frame, and it had the combined technical expertise of Laksharta, Lloyld, and Cecile (and collaberation probably isn't going to happen again). The odds of Kallen repairing it in some underground hidden garage is very unlikely. Plus, she's starting a new life with her mother; no need for the Guren.

I'll say it again: In a "post Lelouch" world, Guren SEITEN isn't needed anymore. The world is at peace, is working towards a better future.

If you really like the Guren, just remember it for what it was, what it did, and all the good battles and moments it was involved in.


-I'm out
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Old 2008-10-04, 04:17   Link #2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double 120% View Post
*sigh*

I know you didn't suggest Lloyd or Cecile. I did. No need to get snippy. I really don't want to argue.

Lelouch would destroy it so it can't be repaired and be used against him later. Lelouch isn't a sentimental mech enthusiast like you or me. With Lancelot Albion gone, and Suzaku "dead", it wouldn't be very smart to leave such a powerful Knightmare frame around to be repaired. For Zero Requiem, it's the people that matter, and NOT the survival of knightmare frames.

Yep out of all the 7th generation+ KMF's that were invovled during the last battle, the only one we know that survived for sure and was rebuilt was the Shen-Hu.

Which is hilarious when you consider Xinge-Ke's numerous death flags and all our speculations about how he was going to push it to its limits fighting character X and die in a suicide attack.
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Old 2008-10-05, 13:00   Link #2007
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Guren Seiten is the most powerful knightmareframe in code geass u people agree?
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Old 2008-10-05, 13:12   Link #2008
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Originally Posted by Knight Of Zero View Post
Guren Seiten is the most powerful knightmareframe in code geass u people agree?
Of course. Lloyd and Cecile said they intended Suzaku to pilot it but they went a little overboard with the modifications.
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Old 2008-10-05, 13:17   Link #2009
bladeofdarkness
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kallen said her specs were higher then the albion in ep 25
since there was no other KMF who could match either (aside from possibly the sigfried, which is a giga fortress and not a frame) then yes
the SEITEN is probably the strongest one ever built (i still think its still around, since the shen hu wasnt destroyed either)
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Old 2008-10-05, 13:19   Link #2010
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does Lancelot and guren have stunguns?
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Old 2008-10-05, 13:25   Link #2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroSama View Post
Yep out of all the 7th generation+ KMF's that were invovled during the last battle, the only one we know that survived for sure and was rebuilt was the Shen-Hu.

Which is hilarious when you consider Xinge-Ke's numerous death flags and all our speculations about how he was going to push it to its limits fighting character X and die in a suicide attack.
Taniguchi knew he wouldn't be able to pull off a death scene for XingKe as good as what XingKe almost got in the China arc while protecting Tianzi, so he didn't bother trying.

That or someone else is piloting Shen Hu now. XingKe is mysteriously missing from a lot of those pictures at the end...
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Old 2008-10-05, 13:36   Link #2012
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Originally Posted by Discerptor View Post
Taniguchi knew he wouldn't be able to pull off a death scene for XingKe as good as what XingKe almost got in the China arc while protecting Tianzi, so he didn't bother trying.

That or someone else is piloting Shen Hu now. XingKe is mysteriously missing from a lot of those pictures at the end...
someone has to take the picture
maybe thats him (the rest of the china people are there
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Old 2008-10-05, 14:17   Link #2013
cors8
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
someone has to take the picture
maybe thats him (the rest of the china people are there
I'm sure they could afford to hire a professional photographer!

I think, if Xingke is alive, he was left to govern the UFN in case something happens. Can't have the entire leadership go off to a wedding.
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Old 2008-10-06, 01:23   Link #2014
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
so the compliment was directed at the guren ?
not kallen ?
the pilot who uses the machine that no other pilot (other then probably suzaku) could pilot, and uses it to its full potential

do you really think that suzaku was complimenting the machine
lol, Suzaku wonder what power and then Kallen directed it to the Guren. she answered the question to Suzaku and then Kallen wonder what power Suzaku had and Live Geass wasnt even mentioned, she wondered why in the end.

Suzaku mentioned it to Kallen and Kallen gave the answer that it was the Guren, case closed on that ordeal my friend.

Quote:
he was fighting kallen in a battle that started with energy wings and beam weapons and ended up as a grounded fist fight becouse she was matching his every move
and he was using his geass from minute one
Suzaku wasnt using his geass all he time.. When they started fighting he wasnt using it and exchanging blows from sometime, 2nd time they are shown fighting, Suzaku wasnt even seen displayed using Live Geass, Suzaku and Karen shields were off and wasted and Suzaku's Live Geass was not on! the Live Geass was not all the time. You could see his eyes were normal.

Quote:
a few days before that he killed bismark
the most expirianced pilot in the world (possibly the best pilot)
who could also see the future
and who suzaku beat with bearly a scrach becouse he was using his geass curse
LOL, Bismark could not see into the future, he basically can read what you are thinking and predict your next move. that is not reading into the future, that is basically reading your mind. Rolo could not stop time, basically he affected your senses and may you think that time was stopped.

Suzaku had a better mecha, that is the main reason he won. He did a move that Bismark couldnt win against even though Bismark tried to counter it and failed. In the end, Bismark cockyness cost him the fight and should of high tailed out of there.

Quote:
the guren might be the strongest knightmare ever built
but by the time he made that comment both machines have basiclly been reduced to the old versions (the original lancelot and the guren niishki) since everything else was basiclly sattered.
both were complimenting each other and pointing out their own (non effective) adventages werent enough becouse the other pilot was just too good
like i said in the first paragraph, Kallen directed the comment to her Guren and not so of Suzaku since nothing was mentioned of the Live Geass and she even asked why he has so much power. So Suzaku's better pilot skills were complimented as the better pilot and the Guren was complimented as the best machine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroSama View Post
If Suzaku got a mech of the same spec then to be fair Kallen would have to have a live geass and hax physical abilities that stop people passing out, allow them to dodge bullets and jump over KMF's as well.

It would then either end with Kallen winning or most probably a draw.
the hell? Live geass doesnt grant any power to the user. Kallen will still past out. Suzaku is just that damn good and physically strong naturally, that is dumb to say to just give her that since she never was supposed to be that strongl, there is no way she can get that strong as Suzaku.

Suzaku has natural talents in physical combat and military trainning.

so why not give a Leluch mind to Suzaku or any one else, give the evilness of Charles, and the way of thinking of Schienzel
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Old 2008-10-06, 03:53   Link #2015
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Originally Posted by X_Danny_X View Post
lol, Suzaku wonder what power and then Kallen directed it to the Guren. she answered the question to Suzaku and then Kallen wonder what power Suzaku had and Live Geass wasnt even mentioned, she wondered why in the end.

Suzaku mentioned it to Kallen and Kallen gave the answer that it was the Guren, case closed on that ordeal my friend.
It's not just the machine. Don't be foolish. The difference obviously wasn't that big if they were able to fight to a standstill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by X_Danny_X View Post
Suzaku wasnt using his geass all he time.. When they started fighting he wasnt using it and exchanging blows from sometime, 2nd time they are shown fighting, Suzaku wasnt even seen displayed using Live Geass, Suzaku and Karen shields were off and wasted and Suzaku's Live Geass was not on! the Live Geass was not all the time. You could see his eyes were normal.
Yes, he was. Every time he attacked, it was on. It was only off when they were talking, and even half of that had it on. You're just grasping at straws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by X_Danny_X View Post
LOL, Bismark could not see into the future, he basically can read what you are thinking and predict your next move. that is not reading into the future, that is basically reading your mind. Rolo could not stop time, basically he affected your senses and may you think that time was stopped.
He says he can see into the future himself. Obviously not very far, but nonetheless he can and with perfect accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by X_Danny_X View Post
like i said in the first paragraph, Kallen directed the comment to her Guren and not so of Suzaku since nothing was mentioned of the Live Geass and she even asked why he has so much power. So Suzaku's better pilot skills were complimented as the better pilot and the Guren was complimented as the best machine.
Suzaku would know that the Guren is higher speced than his machine, so how she rationalizes her skill has no bearing on how he does. He complimented Kallen, period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by X_Danny_X View Post
the hell? Live geass doesnt grant any power to the user. Kallen will still past out. Suzaku is just that damn good and physically strong naturally, that is dumb to say to just give her that since she never was supposed to be that strongl, there is no way she can get that strong as Suzaku.

Suzaku has natural talents in physical combat and military trainning.
Your statement contradicts itself. Military training is not a natural talent, nor is physical combat. Suzaku is superhuman, this much has been established, but his live Geass is shown to make him stronger than he normally is.
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Old 2008-10-06, 07:57   Link #2016
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I believe the exact lines were;

Suzaku: "Even with this live geass your giving so much trouble. Such strength Kallen!"

Kallen: "As far as machine specs go, this Guren is stronger, but why can't I beat you Suzaku?"

So they both complimented each other in a way, also it makes little sense to continue this argument any further since neither side won. A standstill is the best way to call the end result since the Lancelot exploded and the Guren was in shambles with only its chest left. If we're gonna go into deep analysis than Suzaku won since he was able to stop Kallen from pursuing Lelouch and fake his death at the same time and Kallen would have died either by his hands or if Gino wasn't there by plummeting to the ground.
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Old 2008-10-06, 08:26   Link #2017
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actually suzaku was saying he cant finish this even with the geass and saying kallen is very strong
kallen was saying she cant win despite the higher specs and was saying that suzaku is very strong
but kallen was actually saying that if suzaku is so strong then why is he not fighting for justice but rather only going for more power (she didnt know the truth about what they were up to)

and i dont buy that the guren just "fell" off that ledge
kallen passing out shouldnt have had that effect on a ten ton machine
i think she tilted it to the side so it would fall off the plateform (probably hoping it would land on a lower one on the damocles, she wasnt in any position to aim at where she lands)
if she had stayed on the same platform as suzaku she would have been killed by the lancelot blowing up

and suzaku won the war (since he got what he wanted)
but kallen still won the fight
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Old 2008-10-06, 10:07   Link #2018
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
actually suzaku was saying he cant finish this even with the geass and saying kallen is very strong
kallen was saying she cant win despite the higher specs and was saying that suzaku is very strong
but kallen was actually saying that if suzaku is so strong then why is he not fighting for justice but rather only going for more power (she didnt know the truth about what they were up to)

and i dont buy that the guren just "fell" off that ledge
kallen passing out shouldnt have had that effect on a ten ton machine
i think she tilted it to the side so it would fall off the plateform (probably hoping it would land on a lower one on the damocles, she wasnt in any position to aim at where she lands)
if she had stayed on the same platform as suzaku she would have been killed by the lancelot blowing up

and suzaku won the war (since he got what he wanted)
but kallen still won the fight
Well, that's one good summary of what happened. But uh, why Kallen won the fight? No one of them died. And Kallen had more chance of dying, if not for help from outside (Gino). Like always, Kallen forgets to take geography into consideration , lol . <_<
Even though there are still some questions why Kallen fall( don't forget about damn synchro. When Rolo geassed those OoTBk in 19, they fall down).
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Old 2008-10-06, 10:11   Link #2019
bladeofdarkness
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Well, that's one good summary of what happened. But uh, why Kallen won the fight? No one of them died. And Kallen had more chance of dying, if not for help from outside (Gino). Like always, Kallen forgets to take geography into consideration , lol . <_<
Even though there are still some questions why Kallen fall( don't forget about damn synchro. When Rolo geassed those OoTBk in 19, they fall down).
they were flying (and didnt pull the pitch up)
she was standing on the floor
i dont really see any logical reason for a machine of that size to be effected enough to just fall over just becouse its pilot (who cant be all that heavy) passes out
it just seems to me that its more logical for it to have been her doing (since the lancelot was about to explode
i could be wrong

and since the guren was out of power
i dont think she could do anything other then just try to get it to fall off the platform (couldnt move in any other way)
and she won becouse she destroyed the enemy while he didnt destroy her (doesnt matter much in the big picture, only in the frame of that fight)
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Old 2008-10-06, 10:35   Link #2020
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Well, that's one good summary of what happened. But uh, why Kallen won the fight? No one of them died.
Kallen won because, to almost everyone else, except Lelouch, all those who he let in on Zero Requiem and Suzaku himself, and quite possibly herself upon Lelouch's demise, she did kill Suzaku. And between herself and Suzaku, she destroyed his Frame, Suzaku didn't do likewise.
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