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Old 2008-10-09, 11:29   Link #221
Mentar
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Originally Posted by Utau View Post
i lol'd at how wrong i was to think Mikoto was the one he was trying to protect. When it turns out it was the other way around XD
Still this misunderstanding? It's pretty clear that he WAS trying to protect Mikoto. Just rewatch his monologue at the beginning of the episode, he wanted to play hero and protect her from the harassing delinquent. _After that_, he has an unpleasant shock because he noticed that the dork is not alone, and he runs to avoid some beatings. It's only very very late that he realized that by doing what he did, he inadvertently protected the delinquents from the Shocker, not vice versa.

Nevertheless, his INTENTION was to protect HER.
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Old 2008-10-09, 11:34   Link #222
ZippyDSM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Still this misunderstanding? It's pretty clear that he WAS trying to protect Mikoto. Just rewatch his monologue at the beginning of the episode, he wanted to play hero and protect her from the harassing delinquent. _After that_, he has an unpleasant shock because he noticed that the dork is not alone, and he runs to avoid some beatings. It's only very very late that he realized that by doing what he did, he inadvertently protected the delinquents from the Shocker, not vice versa.

Nevertheless, his INTENTION was to protect HER.
Not quite it was clear to me in the eclipse translation that he really wanted to protect them from her. He tried to act cool and protect her to get them to stop so they would not get beat up.

You missed the part when he talks to himself and says he was really protecting them from her as he knew she was an esper, thats what his real intent was.
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Old 2008-10-09, 11:39   Link #223
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ZippyDSM beat me to it XD


also, don't forget that he mention that he knows who she is (maybe not by name), he knows she is one of the 7 level 5 espers in their school. So he's pretty much aware of the dangers that would befall those harassers
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Old 2008-10-09, 11:42   Link #224
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Originally Posted by Utau View Post
ZippyDSM beat me to it XD


also, don't forget that he mention that he knows who she is (maybe not by name), he knows she is one of the 7 level 5 espers in their school. So he's pretty much aware of the dangers that would befall those harassers
10 to 1 shes going to be a tsadare crush on him I like you so I will beat you up!!! WTF?!!?!? 0-o

LOL
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Old 2008-10-09, 11:47   Link #225
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Originally Posted by ZippyDSM View Post
10 to 1 shes going to be a tsadare crush on him I like you so I will beat you up!!! WTF?!!?!? 0-o

LOL


Anyway, if you want to go by the spinoff manga (which has a different first-encounter with the delinquents)...

He is a Worthy Opponent.
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Old 2008-10-09, 11:50   Link #226
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Originally Posted by KaneDragon View Post


Anyway, if you want to go by the spinoff manga (which has a different first-encounter with the delinquents)...

He is a Worthy Opponent.
Oh dear thats one to harem the loli is the next whos next? :P
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Old 2008-10-09, 12:39   Link #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZippyDSM View Post
Not quite it was clear to me in the eclipse translation that he really wanted to protect them from her. He tried to act cool and protect her to get them to stop so they would not get beat up.

You missed the part when he talks to himself and says he was really protecting them from her as he knew she was an esper, thats what his real intent was.
ZippyDSM, I _am_ from Eclipse. I know the script very well.

00:02:27: I saw a girl being harassed by some delinquents,
00:02:29: thought I'd be a little hero, and that was when my luck ran out.

His intention is clear: He wants to help the girl in order to play hero. If he had known Shocker by then, he would have worded it entirely differently. Also, his "luck running out" was clearly that the delinquent's pals were coming back from the toilet. Finally, if it really HAD been his intention to save the delinquents (why the fish should it have been?), why is he running away loudly decrying that this was such a misfortune?

No, what confused you was probably this:

00:04:05: (Mikoto) I'm quite adept at taking care of useless Level 0 espers.
00:04:09: (Touma) Yes, I wasn't trying to save her.
00:04:13: I was trying to save the guys that were carelessly trying to approach her.

Notice the sequence: Shocker tells Touma that she was able to easily handle the delinquent themselves. To which he responds (in an _inner_ dialogue, circumscribed): Yes, what I tried didn't in effect save her from the delinquents - effectively it saved the guys carelessly trying to approach her.

He recognized her when she was demonstrating her powers - not before.

(At least, this is how I read the entire sequence, otherwise his opening monologue makes no sense whatsoever)
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Old 2008-10-09, 12:48   Link #228
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
ZippyDSM, I _am_ from Eclipse. I know the script very well.

00:02:27: I saw a girl being harassed by some delinquents,
00:02:29: thought I'd be a little hero, and that was when my luck ran out.

His intention is clear: He wants to help the girl in order to play hero. If he had known Shocker by then, he would have worded it entirely differently. Also, his "luck running out" was clearly that the delinquent's pals were coming back from the toilet. Finally, if it really HAD been his intention to save the delinquents (why the fish should it have been?), why is he running away loudly decrying that this was such a misfortune?

No, what confused you was probably this:

00:04:05: (Mikoto) I'm quite adept at taking care of useless Level 0 espers.
00:04:09: (Touma) Yes, I wasn't trying to save her.
00:04:13: I was trying to save the guys that were carelessly trying to approach her.

Notice the sequence: Shocker tells Touma that she was able to easily handle the delinquent themselves. To which he responds (circumscribed): Yes, what I tried didn't in effect save her from the delinquents - effectively it saved the guys carelessly trying to approach her.

He recognized her when she was demonstrating her powers - not before.

(At least, this is how I read the entire sequence, otherwise his opening monologue makes no sense whatsoever)
Yes but do you understand in his final words his REAL intent was to get them away from her as so they wont be beat up.

You should understand how grammar works more I might be a dimwit on it but you cannot write off the final part of the sentence/dialog/paragraph when it overrides or refines what was first said.

The "He did it to save her" bit is only factually true if you disregard the last bit, with the last bit the whole thing comes out to him wanting to get them to get away from her for their own good. He says as much altering the intent of what he first said.

If thats not clear he intended to save them from a beating using the saving her bit as a reason to do it.

Last edited by ZippyDSM; 2008-10-09 at 12:52. Reason: ZOMG!! edited for zippy speak
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Old 2008-10-09, 12:59   Link #229
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Er, did you even bother to read and comprehend what I wrote? ^_^;

Fine, let's agree to disagree then.
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Old 2008-10-09, 13:04   Link #230
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Er, did you even bother to read and comprehend what I wrote? ^_^;

Fine, let's agree to disagree then.
Comprehended; it just seems like there ought to be a better way to word that. In any case, keep up the good work.
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Old 2008-10-09, 13:07   Link #231
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i don't think it really matters how others interpreted what he try to do there. Just enjoy the show.
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Old 2008-10-09, 14:30   Link #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
No, what confused you was probably this:

00:04:05: (Mikoto) I'm quite adept at taking care of useless Level 0 espers.
00:04:09: (Touma) Yes, I wasn't trying to save her.
00:04:13: I was trying to save the guys that were carelessly trying to approach her.

Notice the sequence: Shocker tells Touma that she was able to easily handle the delinquent themselves. To which he responds (in an _inner_ dialogue, circumscribed): Yes, what I tried didn't in effect save her from the delinquents - effectively it saved the guys carelessly trying to approach her.

He recognized her when she was demonstrating her powers - not before.

(At least, this is how I read the entire sequence, otherwise his opening monologue makes no sense whatsoever)
Yes, that is exactly what confused me, and probably others. The use of the word "try" implies that this was his original intention. What you "tried" to do has absolutely nothing to do with the effect that ends up occuring, "trying" is intention, by definition. When he says "I wasn't trying to save her" the only way I can read that is "I did not intend to save her."

However you're right that this contradicts some of his earlier statements about how unfortunate he is. The way I reconciled this was by assuming that he only intended to be chased by one delinquent, not a whole gang. This doesn't make as much sense as I'd prefer though.

Anyway, I admit that you may be right, and probably have a bit more ground to stand on, being one of the fansubbers and all. But please acknowledge that your own fansub is what's causing the misunderstanding. The use of the word "try" is not at all ambiguous in English, and can only mean original intent.
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Old 2008-10-09, 15:00   Link #233
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If he's so aware that she's one of only seven Level 5 espers, why did he start out thinking she needed to be saved?

Also, why does Eclipse still call it "Toaru Majutsu no Index" instead of "To Aru Majutsu no Index"? Or is spacing just up for interpretation?
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Last edited by KaneDragon; 2008-10-09 at 20:31.
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Old 2008-10-09, 22:16   Link #234
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Basically, in the beginning Touma is trying to save Mikoto(before he saw her face and realize who she is), so after that, he tries to lure the gangsters away so that they won't be beaten up by her badly. Note: Touma and Mikoto already known each other before this.
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Old 2008-10-10, 01:33   Link #235
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The chain of events go something like this;

-Touma enters restaraunt and sees a delinquent hitting on a Mikoto.

-Choosing to "be a little hero" and save him from Mikoto, Touma attempts to bait the delinquent away, but to his misfortune the deliquents buddies come out of the bathroom.

-Touma leads them on a merry chase ( iirc the novels imply he knows he should be able to outrun them based on their clothing and him not being a smoker ).

-Touma finally rests on the bridge, where Mikoto finds him ( already having zapped the delinquents ). Que bridge scene.
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Old 2008-10-10, 01:53   Link #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elroid View Post
Note: Touma and Mikoto already known each other before this.
And how exactly do they know each other? If they already knew each other, why would

a)...Touma explain to her he's a level 0.
b)...Mikoto explain her Railgun.
c)...why she would be shocked(>.>) to see Touma nullify her attack?
d)...why didn't she greet him the same way as their second meeting?

Obviously it could be determined that he knew OF Mikoto(though I don't think this was so in the manga), which is why he might have wanted to save the deliquents from her, but I don't think that was his original intention, since I'd have to doubt that he can discern a person whom he never personally met from the back of their head.
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Old 2008-10-10, 02:09   Link #237
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seems to me like more and more people are being dragged-in by this dilemma .



Quote:
Originally Posted by frubam View Post
nd how exactly do they know each other? If they already knew each other, why would

a)...Touma explain to her he's a level 0.
b)...Mikoto explain her Railgun.
c)...why she would be shocked(>.>) to see Touma nullify her attack?
d)...why didn't she greet him the same way as their second meeting?
'known' is not exactly the right word to use there. That would imply that they knew each other, being an acquaintance to an extent.


and his 'Note:' doesn't make sense to me at all. If he claims that they both known each other, then, be it her behind appearance would still be recognized by Touma, yet, he still attempt to save her? heck, if i has a friend like her i'd be terrified to just forget her shadows figure
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Old 2008-10-10, 04:52   Link #238
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Originally Posted by KaneDragon View Post
Also, why does Eclipse still call it "Toaru Majutsu no Index" instead of "To Aru Majutsu no Index"? Or is spacing just up for interpretation?
Geh... Before I knew it, the thread title changed to "To Aru" instead of "Toaru"... Even though "toaru (とある/と或る)" has an actual meaning, and the title means that and not "to (と)" AND "aru (ある)"... That's why I made the thread spelled like that in the first place...
Hah...... Whatever................... Tch
Well, I hope those subs keep it that way... Or this series really will forever be known as "To Aru" instead of "Toaru"... Wai~

Quote:
Originally Posted by frubam View Post
And how exactly do they know each other? If they already knew each other, why would

a)...Touma explain to her he's a level 0.
b)...Mikoto explain her Railgun.
c)...why she would be shocked(>.>) to see Touma nullify her attack?
d)...why didn't she greet him the same way as their second meeting?

Obviously it could be determined that he knew OF Mikoto(though I don't think this was so in the manga), which is why he might have wanted to save the deliquents from her, but I don't think that was his original intention, since I'd have to doubt that he can discern a person whom he never personally met from the back of their head.
Yes...
Spoiler for unexplained in anime:


Why they explained everything...? They changed some of the dialogue (the a part)...
b... d... Don't know.
c... Good ol' JC Staff.


Just clearing up the whole saving Mikoto/Delinquents thing using the novel...
Spoiler for novel (...though event has passed):

Though I guess the anime changed the dialogue as well, it seems, if I can remember... Mah...
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Old 2008-10-10, 07:41   Link #239
ZippyDSM
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WHere have I heard this argument befor...oh yes "I voted for it before I voted against it"....

All I can say is his true intention was reveled when he reveled that he was trying to get the punks away from the rageing damsel.
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Old 2008-10-10, 08:19   Link #240
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Originally Posted by serenade_beta View Post
Geh... Before I knew it, the thread title changed to "To Aru" instead of "Toaru"... Even though "toaru (とある/と或る)" has an actual meaning, and the title means that and not "to (と)" AND "aru (ある)"... That's why I made the thread spelled like that in the first place...
Hah...... Whatever................... Tch
Well, I hope those subs keep it that way... Or this series really will forever be known as "To Aru" instead of "Toaru"... Wai~
Don't worry, our TL insisted on "Toaru" for just that reason. But - as thread owner - aren't you able to correct it back?

Quote:
Yes...
Spoiler for unexplained in anime:
Well okay - then I stand corrected. If that's novel knowledge, I'll assume that it was indeed like this, and the wording from the initial monologue was intentionally deceiving. But consider me royally puzzled.
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