AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Gundam

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-10-10, 10:11   Link #7241
ElldenStorm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Yup, while the GN Drives and the GN [T]'s perform the same function, i.e. producing GN Particles, they go about it in different ways.

The original 5 GN Drives uses an unknown self-sustaining reaction (presumably from the TD Blanket), which produces GN Particles as a byproduct. Whereas the GN [T] is much like a generator that converts electrity to create GN Particles, hence why it needs to recharge.
That isn't what Ian said... He said "Functionally, it works the same way, but the core component doesn't use a TD Blanket." And because of this, there's a limit on how long the drive can operate.

That doesn't equate to the Drives turning electrical charge into GN Particles. Sheesh. Fundamentally, they operate just like the GN Alpha Drives. It's the exact same process taking place inside, only without the TD Blanket, which apparently allows the drive to bypass the Law of Conservation of Matter / Energy, whereas Matter / Energy can be neither created nor destroyed, because the TD Blanket is some application of Quantum Theory as we currently understand it.

So we're not talking about Electrical Charging if that's true. Depending on the language, Charging can mean any number of things. Simply because we're American, we typically associate it with Electrical Charging, but that does not mean we're talking about an electrical charge of any kind. For instance, what about 'Charging the Ballast' on a Submarine? That's a context of fluid dynamics being applied to the word 'Charging.' It's been established that the GN Drive reaction uses the "Decay of Baryonic Matter to harness the photon and positronic charges discharged in the process to create electrical power, while also producing GN Particles as a by-product." That's a fact when we're talking about Gundam 00. Thus, you need Baryonic Matter to fuel the GN Reaction. Therefore, it stands to reason, that as that matter decays to produce the electricity and GN Particles, and the fuel is expended as it decays into some inert type of waste matter. Thus it would have to eventually be refueled to continue operating, as it exhausts its usuable baryonic matter. That said, going back to my previous line of thought, other meanings of the word 'charge' can equate to a 'filling up' or a 'refueling' of sometype. And this is especially true in other countries or languages to my understanding.

Last edited by ElldenStorm; 2008-10-10 at 10:25.
ElldenStorm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-10, 10:19   Link #7242
LoweGear
Kuso Teitoku
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of the usual flamenco
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElldenStorm View Post
That isn't what Ian said... He said "Functionally, it works the same way, but the core component doesn't use a TD Blanket." And because of this, there's a limit on how long the drive can operate.
I'm just using the descriptions based on the HG Throne Drei manual, which basically states the gist of what I just said - basically that the GN [T] consumes electricity to produce GN Particles. The model kit manuals are very good sources of official information on many technical matters (it's where the info on the Twin Drive System came from).

Actually, if you take Ian's line in consideration, then we wouldn't need a complicated explanation to explain the differences between a GN Drive and a GN [T]:

We can assume then that the original GN Drives produce GN particles through electricity as well, but the TD Blanket produces the necessary energy through its reaction, essentially giving the GN Drive an unlimited source of electricity for the creation of GN Particles. And since the GN [T] doesn't have a TD Blanket, it has to rely on more conventional methods of energy, like batteries.
__________________

On Sickness: "Like someone filled my journal with junk data and then set it to defragment and gave me the lowest priority possible."
LoweGear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-10, 10:27   Link #7243
MooMooFarm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Ah whatever, point is, if one of the gundam lovers other than Setsuna get their hands on the real deal, it's game over for CB immediately. Until those said people decide that since they owned CB so hard and there won't be anymore fighting without them, they join the losing side, which is CB. Then they switch again. And again. And again. And no one can stop them, because they are bad ass. I mean, look at Kira. The guy goes from EAF to Orb to ZAFT. He's got more pull in CE than the United States does in the real world.
MooMooFarm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-10, 11:00   Link #7244
ElldenStorm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
I'm just using the descriptions based on the HG Throne Drei manual, which basically states the gist of what I just said - basically that the GN [T] consumes electricity to produce GN Particles. The model kit manuals are very good sources of official information on many technical matters (it's where the info on the Twin Drive System came from).

Actually, if you take Ian's line in consideration, then we wouldn't need a complicated explanation to explain the differences between a GN Drive and a GN [T]:

We can assume then that the original GN Drives produce GN particles through electricity as well, but the TD Blanket produces the necessary energy through its reaction, essentially giving the GN Drive an unlimited source of electricity for the creation of GN Particles. And since the GN [T] doesn't have a TD Blanket, it has to rely on more conventional methods of energy, like batteries.
None of that makes any sense, atleast to my mind if we take into account one simple statement that has been fact since day one of Gundam 00. 'GN Particles are a By-Product of the GN Reaction.' If what you're saying is accurate, than GN Particles would be the Product, not a By-Product, of a process that turns electricity into GN Particles.

GN Drives are Reactors. Fact. Reactors take reactants and transform them into products, which typically include electricity. Fact. Reactors are not glorrified batteries. Batteries have Capacitance. Reactors produce. All Fact.

Beyond that... Do you even have any concept of the ratio of input vs output we'd be talking about if you're talking about Electricity converted to GN Particles? It's soo staggering, I don't even think such a conversion would be practical for an actual Mobile Suit 'Power' System. Take Nuclear Fission for example. When you break an atom down, you're breaking apart sub-atomic particles. You also get a massive release of energy. So much energy, that if left unchecked, we get big nuclear explosions, kinda like what destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Destroying a particle and converting it into energy would pretty much be on a relevant or even greater scale to that example. I mean hell, currently we can only destroy particles in centrifuges and super colliders. And we have to try really freaking hard to destroy a lone particle. Meaning alot of energy is actually put into it to acheive said particle destruction. The reverse of that process would require the exact same amount of energy to be input, that was released in the first place to destroy a particle, to create a new particle from raw energy... That's a hell of alot of energy to stored in any battery... To the point that I find it, improbable, that any battery will every have that much capacitence. It's simply an inefficient process to use electricty to artificially produce the GN Particles, when they're naturally produced via another process.

So no sir, I do not ascribe to your interpetation or the HG Manual's explanation. One source, pitted against multiple other cannonical sources should be easily discredited by any objective individual. Sources, which I might add, come from the actual studio / creative team, versus a model company. Do I accept the information provided by the OO HG Model? Yes, but it fits within the confines of what has been stated in the series and the studio / creative team's comments.

Last edited by ElldenStorm; 2008-10-10 at 11:36.
ElldenStorm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-10, 11:33   Link #7245
AlphaDragoon
Flame of the Dragonslayer
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooMooFarm View Post
A real reason that actually makes sense is that since Ribbons most likely didn't share the Alvatore's designs with the Feds, they have no way of figuring out how to create a weapon to withstand the magnitude of 8-10 tau drives and still be effective even for a short duration of time (AKA GN FLAG SYNDROME). Alvatore clearly works, saying it doesn't is smoking crack. Without Exia's super anti gundam sword, there's no way it would've won. Even more so, if Graham or any real ace was driving the Alvatore, can you say Setsuna would've won? LOL yeah right. The thing was made to let Mr don't know jack but has deep pockets win a fight against CB's finest. And I'm pretty sure Corner had confidence regardless of HOW the battle was going to turn out, even if it came down to him versus ALL of CB. You don't go into battle with SHINING GOLD RIMS if you had to play chickenshit like Ali.



Then Spinzaku will come out and rape it in 20 seconds with Lancelot Riggedbion, painted in custom Char Zaku colors for 3x speed and heated Tomahawk. Wins by kick.
I dunno...considering Graham got his machine completely scrapped (although he destroyed Exia as well for the most part) by a WEAKENED, no Trans-Am Exia with most of the weapons gone...Trans-Am Exia would have raped Graham, "ace" or not. Matter of fact, Sergei and Soma and all the rest of them are lucky they weren't the ones to run into it at full strength.

And as for Suzaku, I honestly think he'd get owned by Trans-Am Exia too, let alone full powered 00. LOL wannabe Kira.
AlphaDragoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-10, 12:10   Link #7246
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Let's clear things up here: this thread is meant to be a place to post NEWS about Gundam 00, and for fostering the discussion of that news. If you want to get into discussing other Gundam 00 subjects, there are plenty of other threads for doing that.
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-10, 14:34   Link #7247
Meehlimo
Gundam Otaku
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 29
Send a message via AIM to Meehlimo Send a message via MSN to Meehlimo
Edit: nm
__________________
Meehlimo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-10, 21:18   Link #7248
LoweGear
Kuso Teitoku
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of the usual flamenco
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElldenStorm View Post
So no sir, I do not ascribe to your interpetation or the HG Manual's explanation. One source, pitted against multiple other cannonical sources should be easily discredited by any objective individual. Sources, which I might add, come from the actual studio / creative team, versus a model company. Do I accept the information provided by the OO HG Model? Yes, but it fits within the confines of what has been stated in the series and the studio / creative team's comments.
I will cede on the GN Drive argument for now (the source mentions energy, not specifically electricity), but I will point out that as Gundam is concerned, the model kit manuals and spec info is considered official, due to the input of the creative team in providing the information.

I'd like to ask though... I also remember the Decay of Baryonic matter explanation, but don't remember it's exact source, which I would like to see for myself.
__________________

On Sickness: "Like someone filled my journal with junk data and then set it to defragment and gave me the lowest priority possible."
LoweGear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-11, 12:04   Link #7249
cloak_and_dagger
Hei aka Li Xiansheng
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kasumigaseki; where contractors dwell.
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nourredine View Post
Ah, damn I forgot it was the Talgeese II

I do miss Zechs though
He was full of win, the cocky bastard <3
The only one that comes close is Graham, but he's still a whim of what Zechs was.
And ofcourse, Treize is missing some love too.
Zechs was the coolest

Doesn't Aizen remind you of Treize?
cloak_and_dagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-11, 17:18   Link #7250
Derringer
Bluefin Distribution
*Scanlator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElldenStorm View Post
None of that makes any sense, atleast to my mind if we take into account one simple statement that has been fact since day one of Gundam 00. 'GN Particles are a By-Product of the GN Reaction.'
This is only true of real GN drives that use a TD Blanket. GN T drives take energy to produce GN particles and only GN particles.

Quote:
GN Drives are Reactors. Fact.
Reactors take reactants and transform them into products, which typically include electricity. Fact. Reactors are not glorrified batteries. Batteries have Capacitance. Reactors produce. All Fact.
GN T Drives are therefore not reactors since all they do is produce GN particles.

Quote:
It's simply an inefficient process to use electricty to artificially produce the GN Particles, when they're naturally produced via another process.
Yes, but we have no indication that the Federation has any knowledge of the fact that their GN drives aren't the same as the original 5 GN drives. Nothing in magazines has pointed or even mentioned that the Federation has bothered to take a deeper look into the different particle colors other than being just aesthetic difference.

Quote:
So no sir, I do not ascribe to your interpetation or the HG Manual's explanation. One source, pitted against multiple other cannonical sources should be easily discredited by any objective individual. Sources, which I might add, come from the actual studio / creative team, versus a model company. Do I accept the information provided by the OO HG Model? Yes, but it fits within the confines of what has been stated in the series and the studio / creative team's comments.
I don't see where you see the contradiction. The other canonical sources are the Gundam Official Files, Gundam World Book, and instruction manuals for model kits. That's the way it's always been for every Gundam series. What news and info we have is based primarily from these sources.
Derringer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-11, 20:27   Link #7251
ElldenStorm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derringer View Post
This is only true of real GN drives that use a TD Blanket. GN T drives take energy to produce GN particles and only GN particles.

GN T Drives are therefore not reactors since all they do is produce GN particles.
Boy, you don't do a good job of reading previous posts do you? I direct your attention to my previous statement before the one you quoted, which has a direct quote that blasts everything you just supposed out of the water.

Note the first bolded statement. That's direct from Ian in Episode 18 I think it was?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElldenStorm View Post
That isn't what Ian said... He said "Functionally, it works the same way, but the core component doesn't use a TD Blanket." And because of this, there's a limit on how long the drive can operate.

That doesn't equate to the Drives turning electrical charge into GN Particles. Sheesh. Fundamentally, they operate just like the GN Alpha Drives. It's the exact same process taking place inside, only without the TD Blanket, which apparently allows the drive to bypass the Law of Conservation of Matter / Energy, whereas Matter / Energy can be neither created nor destroyed, because the TD Blanket is some application of Quantum Theory as we currently understand it.

So we're not talking about Electrical Charging if that's true. Depending on the language, Charging can mean any number of things. Simply because we're American, we typically associate it with Electrical Charging, but that does not mean we're talking about an electrical charge of any kind. For instance, what about 'Charging the Ballast' on a Submarine? That's a context of fluid dynamics being applied to the word 'Charging.' It's been established that the GN Drive reaction uses the "Decay of Baryonic Matter to harness the photon and positronic charges discharged in the process to create electrical power, while also producing GN Particles as a by-product." That's a fact when we're talking about Gundam 00. Thus, you need Baryonic Matter to fuel the GN Reaction. Therefore, it stands to reason, that as that matter decays to produce the electricity and GN Particles, and the fuel is expended as it decays into some inert type of waste matter. Thus it would have to eventually be refueled to continue operating, as it exhausts its usuable baryonic matter. That said, going back to my previous line of thought, other meanings of the word 'charge' can equate to a 'filling up' or a 'refueling' of sometype. And this is especially true in other countries or languages to my understanding.
BTW, this thread of discussion belongs in the Mecha, Weapons and Technology thread now. I welcome you to discuss it further there.
ElldenStorm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-11, 20:35   Link #7252
LightningZERO
You are Dominated!
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Earth
Age: 26
Is this posted yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv7XxKCNC6w

Full Op
__________________
その再生を破壊する
Destroy This Rebirth
LightningZERO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-11, 20:45   Link #7253
rebel one
Do the Monkey
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: on TOP of a rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningZERO View Post
Is this posted yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv7XxKCNC6w

Full Op
Sweet Is this the radio rip?
rebel one is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-11, 21:31   Link #7254
Cox
BEETLEJUICE!
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 27
wow Full out early O_O
Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-11, 22:24   Link #7255
kuroSaki_Ichi
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 24
Yeah reallly good song, but still not CD quality =(. O well, be happy with what we have haha.

I hope Setsuna kicks some Ahead butt in this week's ep since that guy was arrogant and said the Gundam isn't an opponent for him XD.

Last edited by kuroSaki_Ichi; 2008-10-11 at 22:56.
kuroSaki_Ichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-11, 22:25   Link #7256
Cherudim Arche
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningZERO View Post
Is this posted yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv7XxKCNC6w

Full Op
Now, that is quite good.
Cherudim Arche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-12, 02:02   Link #7257
SaintessHeart
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 26
NICEEEE.......can't wait for the lyrics.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-12, 03:52   Link #7258
mechalord
Deploying Funnel Cakes
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
O Gundam still exists. Prototypes are always mad hax in anime. It probably has a god mode that was too powerful for its time.

OP music starts when Saji recognizes Setsuna. It's like the series begins here... when Saji realizes who Setsuna in and enters CB's world. I thought the theme for this season was Saji and Setsuna having similar goals but having rival visions.

Saji could end up with a Gundam.
mechalord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-12, 03:57   Link #7259
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechalord View Post
O Gundam still exists. Prototypes are always mad hax in anime. It probably has a god mode that was too powerful for its time.

OP music starts when Saji recognizes Setsuna. It's like the series begins here... when Saji realizes who Setsuna in and enters CB's world. I thought the theme for this season was Saji and Setsuna having similar goals but having rival visions.

Saji could end up with a Gundam.
No. No, no, and did I mention, no?

Super Prototypes usually exist in Super Robot shows, not Real Robot shows like Gundam. There are only a few exceptions to the rule (Wing Zero is the only one I recall). The 0 Gundam has no GN-Drive--its now installed on the 00 Gundam as part of its Twin Drive System. So essentially 0 Gundam is a giant paperweight.

Saji detests fighting, and detests the Gundams. They caused him immense amounts of grief concerning Louise and Kinue. Piloting a Gundam would be seen as an extreme form of masochism. Also, keep in mind that Saji has no training whatsoever when it comes to fighting and mobile suits. It just won't happen. He's got better chances at becoming the pilot of the 0-Riser, though Lasse'll likely be the pilot for that.
__________________
Rising Dragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-12, 04:01   Link #7260
Narona
Emotionless White Face
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
He's got better chances at becoming the pilot of the 0-Riser, though Lasse'll likely be the pilot for that.
Given the season one, that's what I think too, but who knows XD. Saji will not stay in his room during the entire show XD. Also, he might escape.
Narona is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
spoilers

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 00:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.