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Old 2008-10-12, 00:44   Link #61
ElldenStorm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
IIRC they call them Solar Furnaces because of it's self-sustaining energy. It's just a term that points to a similarity, rather than a self-description of the engine's workings. As has been seen in the series and official info many times, the Solar Furnace has no relation to solar energy or solar power whatsoever.

@darkprimus:

Now THAT is an impressive post
Then I'd ask for connonical confirmation on that. I'm not saying that the real process from which the power is derived from in the GN Drive, is solar based. I'm saying that Solar Radiation, or rays are a catalyst or an accelerant for that process. Indeed, I'd lean more toward the catalyst role, as it seems that GN Efficiency isn't dependent upon direct solar radiation exposure, and catalysts can be a one time exposure deal.

As darkprimus said, with the decay of protons, it takes a long time to breakdown. Thus an accelerant catalyst is need to prompt those protons to breakdown rapidly. The question I'm posing is, what if solar radiation, was focused in a specific manner in a process to metaphorically 'spark' that accelerated reaction in the first place? And since these GN Core Elements seem to be perpetual, closed circuit, energy reactions, maybe all it would need is a one time exposure or initialization via direct Solar Radiation to begin. And since it has the TD Blanket which seems to recycle everything within the core element, that could conceivably include the initial burst of solar radiation. Thus, pepetually looping the initial exposure and sustaining the reaction.

Remember, the power / energy output of the drive is derived from released photons and positrons. Not solar energy. So, I'm not contradicting myself, I'm just saying it was an ingredient in the process. It's not the same as saying the GN Reactors are Solar Reactors.

That was what I was getting at.
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Old 2008-10-12, 02:17   Link #62
Derringer
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Originally Posted by ElldenStorm View Post
Boy, you don't do a good job of reading previous posts do you? I direct your attention to my previous statement before the one you quoted, which has a direct quote that blasts everything you just supposed out of the water.

Note the first bolded statement. That's direct from Ian in Episode 18 I think it was?
There's no need to question someone's ability read. I'm not supposing anything. I'm drawing information from published text. What Ian said doesn't necessarily contradict anything. Essentially what's happening is GN T and GN drives are similar in that they produce GN particles. However because the T drives lack the TD blanket, the method of production for GN particles isn't the same, yet the particles themselves have for all intents and purposes appeared the same minus the color difference. We clearly see the T drives on the GN-X being charged. They even say drives have finished charging. So T drives need to be recharged in some manner, and the originals do not need recharging.
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Old 2008-10-12, 02:43   Link #63
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Short question: Is AD technology more superior than CE? CB Gundams can enter atmosphere without a sweat, but CE suits cant.
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Old 2008-10-12, 02:47   Link #64
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Originally Posted by Kelrys View Post
Short question: Is AD technology more superior than CE? CB Gundams can enter atmosphere without a sweat, but CE suits cant.
Some CE suits can perform atmospheric entry on their own. Case in point, Strike, Freedom, Strike Freedom, and Infinite Justice. But really, it depends. The only thing really advanced in AD is the GN-Drive, with its GN-Particle, which is multipurpose in its design. CE, on the other than, has its own multipurpose particle, as well as a special armor system that negates damage caused by physical weaponry, etc, which hasn't really been seen in AD.
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Old 2008-10-12, 03:12   Link #65
ElldenStorm
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Originally Posted by Derringer View Post
There's no need to question someone's ability read. I'm not supposing anything. I'm drawing information from published text. What Ian said doesn't necessarily contradict anything. Essentially what's happening is GN T and GN drives are similar in that they produce GN particles. However because the T drives lack the TD blanket, the method of production for GN particles isn't the same, yet the particles themselves have for all intents and purposes appeared the same minus the color difference. We clearly see the T drives on the GN-X being charged. They even say drives have finished charging. So T drives need to be recharged in some manner, and the originals do not need recharging.
It's obvious you can read. But you apparently forwent considering my previous post.

So then, I'll just have to disagree. Logically speaking, you don't say that two platforms that produce the same product, yet work on two completely different principles, work and function the same way. The english language and the japanese language, just are not that obscure... The only explaination that makes any sense, is that GN Alpha and GN Tau Drives are fudamentally the same. Except that the Alpha drives have an extra component that is the culmination of Celestial Being's technology. The TD Blanket. They would work exactly the same way, it's just that the Alpha drives are all that much more powerful because it has a peice of technology that taps into Quantum Physics, which could be the most powerful level of physics that we'll ever discover.

That said, in regards to the Charging statement. There are any number of meanings for the word 'Charge,' 'Charging,' 'Recharge,' and 'Recharging.' Look it up sometime... Dictionary.com will provide you typically close to 50 various uses, and it is not simply a reference to electrical charging. And the fact is, they don't say in the Anime what they're actually charging the Tau Drives with. Now, I know that the model manuals that were created in conjunction with the creative design team of the series, may say that it's electrical power, and yes, I typically agree that those manuals are connonical sources. However, when it's not directly established or even really concretely supported through the primary cannon source, the series itself, I find those sources suspect and I analyze them more critically. But the model manuals and other similar sources are not the end all be all of series cannon, because we're talking about material produced by a completely different group then the actual series creators.

Beyond that, I've been over the matter of the inefficiency and impracticality of using electrical batteries to create GN Particles in the other thread. We'd be talking about some truly mind boggling battery technology... No, scratch that, nie impossible, battery technology, to provide not only the electrical power for the majority of the mobilesuit's onboard systems, but to create 'from scratch' GN Particles by the trillions, ontop of that, and fit the battery itself onto the frame of a mobilesuit. Basically, right now. Today. We can hardly destroy lone sub-atomic particles. Be it through super colliders or centrifuges. It takes a 'hell' of alot of power to destroy a single particle. Now, in order to create a particle from nothing, you'd have to have an equal amout of power to what was required to destroy an indentical particle... ... ! Okay! okay... ! We're talking about soo much power, that in the EU recently, a court injunction was just ordered to stop the largest super collider test ever to destroy single particles at a time, because a good portion of the scientific community believes the resultant release of energy could be enough to blow half or more of the Earth away.... We're not talking about particles that you could create with a Duracel battery! There is, and there likely never will be in the next thousand years, a battery with the capacity to create even a single particle from nothingness, and yet be small enough to mount on a mobilesuit. Capiche?

I guess, what I'm saying, is that from a practical scientific and engineering point of view, it's completely improbable for the Tau Drives to be nothing more then gloriffied batteries. And that's what you're proposing they are.
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Old 2008-10-12, 03:44   Link #66
FRS
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I'll say it again, and what would that radioactive waste be exactly? In other words, I don't think you really know what radioactive waste is, so you can now prove that you do.
just google radioactive waste if you dont believe *shrug*


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Again, you didn't read what I wrote. I'll just say it again,

"No one said nuclear energy is infinite. But in practical terms, it might as well be. Depending on the reactor size, there would be enough energy for years of use."
A long term solution for half of the world is better.
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Old 2008-10-12, 04:02   Link #67
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Sorry guys, mind to put references to your sources?? like, it is mentioned in episode XX or in offical gundam 00 mechnic report book, printing with model kit XX aso. It is basically to give us a proper foundation and people the possibility to trace back where the information is coming from. Because at the moment it is kind of hard to seperation between official information and speculation made up by a lose end.

BTW i'm talking about references to Gundam 00 (universe) data, not real science.
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Old 2008-10-12, 06:38   Link #68
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
CE, on the other than, has its own multipurpose particle, as well as a special armor system that negates damage caused by physical weaponry, etc, which hasn't really been seen in AD.
I though the CB Gundam is also equipped with special armor too that can negate physical damage as well as the beam weaponary. That's the reason why the Gundam is so overpowered since the Flags' weapons can not damage it.

p.s: I read the name of the Gundam armor in this forum but I forget where I read it.
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Old 2008-10-12, 07:35   Link #69
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Originally Posted by coba View Post
p.s: I read the name of the Gundam armor in this forum but I forget where I read it.
All the Gundams use E-Carbon armor, which is actually quite tough (the HG Exia manual states it can actually negate the GN Vulcans), and yet at the same time quite common (hence the HRL technician's comment that the Kyrios' tail container wasn't anything they can't build.)

However, CB may be using GN Particle tech to enhance the defensive power of E-Carbon, an example being GN Composite Armor, which is E-Carbon that sandwhiches a layer of GN Particles to enhance it's defensive power (first tested on the Gundam Plutone).
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Old 2008-10-12, 09:40   Link #70
Daigo
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Originally Posted by FRS View Post
just google radioactive waste if you dont believe *shrug*
I already know what radioactive waste is. I'm testing you, because you obviously don't know.

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A long term solution for half of the world is better.
How is that a relevant retort? We are talking about a mobile suit, not energy solutions for the world.
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Old 2008-10-12, 11:07   Link #71
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Now that we see the twin gn drives in 00 act as barriers, we can safely assume that the docked position of the 0-riser isn't as suicidal. Which leans towards the 0-riser requiring a pilot, although I assume the 00 with the 0-riser has an extra weapons or guidance system if the 0-riser required a pilot. Unless... it's just one big automated fang/funnel/bit-like mobile armor.
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Old 2008-10-12, 11:37   Link #72
FRS
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Originally Posted by Daigo View Post
I already know what radioactive waste is. I'm testing you, because you obviously don't know.
So you are arguing that there's no waste produced by nuclear reactor that need to be stocked or processed since i am all wrong and what not ? ok, you sure do know your stuff
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Old 2008-10-12, 12:00   Link #73
rebel one
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Anyone wanna try figuring this out
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Old 2008-10-12, 12:33   Link #74
ashlay
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Originally Posted by rebel one View Post
Anyone wanna try figuring this out
I mean this is just for activating the damn thing, right?

numbers in the circles are the output percentage on the GN drives, next to those the percentage of GN particles that have been funneled into twin drive chambers from each furnace based on their capacity, center is how much is in the twin drive's furnace. when the center number gets to 100% the reaction starts and whatever crazy resonance effects the twin drive has kicks in. sound reasonable enough?
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Old 2008-10-12, 12:39   Link #75
Derringer
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You need to stop seeing things that are not stated. There are no such things as GN Alpha drives, only normal GN drives and GN T drives. I make NO statement about electricity in any of my posts. I have not made my own conjecture, I have only repeated information to you about what others have mentioned in the Throne Drei manual. If you want to argue about weird science, try explaining how GN particles manipulate the effects of gravity through weight re-distribution (Throne Zwei manual). Go ask on MAHQ, they have more tech heads than this board.

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However, when it's not directly established or even really concretely supported through the primary cannon source, the series itself, I find those sources suspect and I analyze them more critically. But the model manuals and other similar sources are not the end all be all of series cannon, because we're talking about material produced by a completely different group then the actual series creators.
Stop making stuff up. The stuff in the gunpla manual is NOT produced by a completely different set of people. The design and modeling teams work in unison. The series and the manuals do not necessarily reinforce each other, but they do not contradict each other either. Just because I mention it's raining, doesn't mean you're wrong if you say the sun is out.


If you want to argue about validity, you are NOT allowed to selectively choose documentation just because they match your theories and say the others are discredit especially if they're all the same company. Sunrise if you didn't realize is under Bandai's supervision.

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I guess, what I'm saying, is that from a practical scientific and engineering point of view, it's completely improbable for the Tau Drives to be nothing more then gloriffied batteries. And that's what you're proposing they are.
NO. That's what YOU'RE saying based on YOUR reasoning. I make no statement about batteries, nor do I make any attempt to explain the processes that would make it work. You're the one magically drawing conclusions from other people's posts and then saying he/she proposes that. I only said the drives need to be recharged (or if you don't want to use that word because you associate recharge with battery, how about replenish, restock, refill, restore since those words don't necessarily refer to a battery)
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Old 2008-10-12, 13:01   Link #76
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How Setsuna destroy a MS only with one shot with 00 gundam? It is a Ahead right,I thought Ahead suppose to stronger than GNX-III.

Does 00 gundam beam are stronger because of its twin drive? How about we all discuss about weapon instead.
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Old 2008-10-12, 13:10   Link #77
Daigo
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Originally Posted by FRS View Post
So you are arguing that there's no waste produced by nuclear reactor that need to be stocked or processed since i am all wrong and what not ? ok, you sure do know your stuff
I'll ask you again, for the 4th time now, what do you think radioactive waste is?
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Old 2008-10-12, 13:18   Link #78
ashlay
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Originally Posted by RAVNEN View Post
How Setsuna destroy a MS only with one shot with 00 gundam? It is a Ahead right,I thought Ahead suppose to stronger than GNX-III.

Does 00 gundam beam are stronger because of its twin drive? How about we all discuss about weapon instead.
Aheads don't seem to have much of a GN field, they throw most of their GN particles into the thrusters so they can be so agile.

Or yeah, 00 is ^2 more GN particles, so it can have really powerful beam weaponry. (and CB has the tech to make such high powered beam weapons) either way.
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Old 2008-10-12, 13:24   Link #79
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by coba View Post
I though the CB Gundam is also equipped with special armor too that can negate physical damage as well as the beam weaponary. That's the reason why the Gundam is so overpowered since the Flags' weapons can not damage it.

p.s: I read the name of the Gundam armor in this forum but I forget where I read it.
Yes, I realize that, but we also seen that despite that, physical damage from physical sources can be caused to that armor, such as when Sergei's custom Tieren fought against Gundam Exia and grappled its head--the pressure from the hand was starting to affect the head unit. Phase Shift, on the other hand, negates any and all physical damage done, making it so that while its active, only energy weapons such as beam cannons and beam sabers can damage the mobile suit.
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Old 2008-10-12, 16:22   Link #80
coba
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Yes, I realize that, but we also seen that despite that, physical damage from physical sources can be caused to that armor, such as when Sergei's custom Tieren fought against Gundam Exia and grappled its head--the pressure from the hand was starting to affect the head unit. Phase Shift, on the other hand, negates any and all physical damage done, making it so that while its active, only energy weapons such as beam cannons and beam sabers can damage the mobile suit.

Unfortunately, we don't really have comparable situation with CE universe. However, one thing that I would probably have to bring the situation up is when Impulse stab Freedom with ASS's tip in GSD ep 34. I know that scene is still disputable (some say that the entire ASS including the tip is covered with the beam even though the scene does not show that), but it does not really rule out the possibility that if you put enough pressure over and over again, even the Phase shift armor will fail. After all, the way the phase armor works is by running some sort of energy to protect the armor like (in AD, Gundams likely use GN particlew to enhance the E-carbon). So logically if you put a lot of pressure to the PSA, you will eventually drain the energy and overcome the PSA itself.
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