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Old 2008-10-15, 13:06   Link #1861
Shuuda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
but that was not the point of the scenes
when you kill off a character you do it for a reason
you want their deaths to effect the plot
in this case bringing them back (un-deathing them if you prefer) cancels the change and ruins it completly
suppose for a sec that sherly came back to life
would that be a good thing for sherly fans
probably (some would see it my way)
would this be a good thing for the plot
not at all
and this is what they did with nunnaly's death (the one death that should have had the most impact)
You are being illogical again:

- We see shirly die, we do not see Nunnaly die.
- Nunnaly's "Death" was always questionable (two shuttles). Therefore it is not so shocking that she returned.

Their "deaths" are far too different to compare.
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Old 2008-10-15, 13:14   Link #1862
youngde
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Ah, as far as I'm concerned, unless it's blantently obvious that a certain character died (like we see them get shot, their eyes close, a EKG flatlines, etc.), I generally don't have a problem w/ them coming back. It's fiction. People survive seemingly unsurvible things in fiction all the time. (At least main/secondary characters. Characters that are basically a show's equivalents of 'Red Shirts' drop like flies.)

It's why I wouldn't have a problem w/ Lelouch surviving so long as they didn't use some half-assed excuse that doesn't really explain anything. (I'm assuming, if he did survive, it would have to do w/ Geass, so they could FINALLY get around to explaining what the hell Geass is.)
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Old 2008-10-15, 13:20   Link #1863
bladeofdarkness
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there are three rules set by the guy running derailed by darry (formerly anime on my mind)
which i think rather point out very well on how to handle character deaths in order for them to work

1)a character must be importent and the loss must be felt (think kamina's death)
2)the death must be in as fast and as brutal of a way as possible in a shit happens kinda way
it could be a heroic death (like mu la flaga) but it must happen fast and not be drawn out into narm teritory
3) the most importent one
the one thing that christianity, sunrise, and marvel comics never seem to learn
dead people stay dead
otherwise dont bother killing them (or making it look like they died on screen)
i agree that no importen character dies off screen
but if the death scene (or what is ment to be believed to be a death scene) is shown on screen (like the light closing over nunnaly's face, or cornellia getting riddeled with bullets
then they are dead
and should stay dead for plot sake
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Old 2008-10-15, 13:24   Link #1864
Shuuda
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Quote:
but if the death scene (or what is ment to be believed to be a death scene) is shown on screen (like the light closing over nunnaly's face
That is not showing Nunnaly dying on screen, thats light closing over nunnaly's face. Last time light closed over my face, I did not die.
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Old 2008-10-15, 13:29   Link #1865
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuuda View Post
That is not showing Nunnaly dying on screen, thats light closing over nunnaly's face. Last time light closed over my face, I did not die.
your missing the point so badly that the point might as well be on jupiter (another reason why i think the last arc sucked)
if it looks like they are dead (and the light on nunnaly's face was as good of a death scene as possible) then they should be treated as dead and not come back
my jaw actually dropped when i saw that scene (go into the light nunnaly)
it worked so well having lelouch's reason for living disapear in a flash of light
but they ended up screwing it over
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Old 2008-10-15, 13:32   Link #1866
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Quote:
if it looks like they are dead (and the light on nunnaly's face was as good of a death scene as possible) then they should be treated as dead and not come back
Nunnaly did not look dead: she looked like someone who had light closing over her. I know what death looks like. There were two shuttles, thus it was possible to realise that she had survived. Lelouch did not know about the shuttles, thus he thought Nunnaly was dead.

If you a so sure that we see Nunnaly die on screen, why don't you go get a picture of the exact moment that she "died". Oh wait... you cannot since we do not see her die.

Last edited by Shuuda; 2008-10-15 at 13:48.
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Old 2008-10-15, 13:44   Link #1867
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@Shuuda

very nice point in the Marianne-connection between Anya and Jeremiah. Didn't figure out for myself.

@bladeofdarkness.

You might be not satisfyied about the ending and people that seemed dead at a certain point not being so, but you have to admit that this ending has the merit of giving Lelouch's experience of life with the Geass a meaningfull and somehow touching conclusion.

It would not have been so withouth Nunnaly, and Lelouch had to experience the loss and the rejection of his most beloved human being and principal alibi to come to this point. It might be not the most realistic way to bring her back, who cares, it's an anime after all!
There was a solid reason for the final development of Lelouch character for making him believe Nunnaly is gone and then bringing Nunnaly back. It was not something tha happened just because.

The big boss cliché is something I personally do no crave for. But that's up to personal tastes, I guess...

@blottyparchment
thanks for the translation, it was very nice of you to share. Make sure to share more if you can ^^
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Old 2008-10-15, 13:50   Link #1868
bladeofdarkness
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i want to make it clear
the last ep saved the show for me
it was a very good ep
a nice twist (unless you actually read "god emperor of dune")
and a very nice epiloge
but the problem was that the ep NEEDED to save the show in the first place
i was living my life in between code geass episodes up until ep 20 came along
it was the best show ever
and then the last arc came about and suddenly the show needs to be saved
it should have been the best show in years
but the last arc turned it into such a trainwreak that if ep 25 wasnt as good as it were i would have ranked the show as a 7 out of 10 (all 7 points for the plot up to ep 20)
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Old 2008-10-15, 13:54   Link #1869
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and then the last arc came about and suddenly the show needs to be saved
Suddenly? It was pretty clear it was going to happen. Scheinzel had been built up to be Lelouch's final obstacle.
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Old 2008-10-15, 13:58   Link #1870
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuuda View Post
Suddenly? It was pretty clear it was going to happen. Scheinzel had been built up to be Lelouch's final obstacle.
not what i ment
the show needed to be saved since shnizel ended up being a flop
lelouch and suzaku both turned into completely amoral jerks (i still consider lelouch's actions to be rape the dog)
and the whole plot was basiclly reduced to "lets have a big battle between lelouch and all of his allies"
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Old 2008-10-15, 14:05   Link #1871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
not what i ment
the show needed to be saved since shnizel ended up being a flop
lelouch and suzaku both turned into completely amoral jerks (i still consider lelouch's actions to be rape the dog)
and the whole plot was basiclly reduced to "lets have a big battle between lelouch and all of his allies"
Those so called allies betrayed him first when given evidence by their own enemy that he has been disclosed the entire time. Seriously man, get over it, everyone who was watching saw that Lelouch's actions while he was emperor was for the greater good regardless, if it wasn't for his sacrifice there would have been no wedding picture.
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Old 2008-10-15, 14:12   Link #1872
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Train Samurai View Post
Those so called allies betrayed him first when given evidence by their own enemy that he has been disclosed the entire time. Seriously man, get over it, everyone who was watching saw that Lelouch's actions while he was emperor was for the greater good regardless, if it wasn't for his sacrifice there would have been no wedding picture.
he could have came into the UFN peace talks
here them say the whole 20% thing
negotioate it up to 40%
and thats it
one world goverment (in a way)
no more war
no more nothing
instead he ended up triggering world war ZERO and ended up killing many people (many of whom were his own brainwashed troops)
the idea of making yourself the focus of hate and then arrenging for your own death is not new (god emperor of dune)
its a nice idea
but it could have ended messy
and the fact that (like he told c.c) he was ready to even kill nunnaly inorder to do it make it kinda hard to like him at the time
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Old 2008-10-15, 14:19   Link #1873
Train Samurai
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
he could have came into the UFN peace talks
here them say the whole 20% thing
negotioate it up to 40%
and thats it
one world goverment (in a way)
no more war
no more nothing
instead he ended up triggering world war ZERO and ended up killing many people (many of whom were his own brainwashed troops)
the idea of making yourself the focus of hate and then arrenging for your own death is not new (god emperor of dune)
its a nice idea
but it could have ended messy
and the fact that (like he told c.c) he was ready to even kill nunnaly inorder to do it make it kinda hard to like him at the time
He was willing to join the UFN (which he created by the way ) but they didn't trust him obviously because of his geass. As for Nunnally it was not like Schienzel was the lesser of two evils since she was willing to launch a nuclear warhead two times, one which killed off her entire family so obviously a world ruled by fear of being nuked is better, not only that but she was incredibly delusional until she finally realize what he had done.
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Old 2008-10-15, 14:21   Link #1874
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Train Samurai View Post
He was willing to join the UFN (which he created by the way ) but they didn't trust him obviously because of his geass. As for Nunnally it was not like Schienzel was the lesser of two evils since she was willing to launch a nuclear warhead two times, one which killed off her entire family so obviously a world ruled by fear of being nuked is better, not only that but she was incredibly delusional until she finally realize what he had done.

mis-lead by other people telling her facts which are actually true (he just didnt tell her all the facts) does not equal delusional
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Old 2008-10-15, 14:25   Link #1875
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@ Train - Actually, The UFN was going to let Lelouch join as long as he did so under their terms because Brittannia had the greatest population count and would have majority rule in voting. Lelouch opted instead to use the situation as a diversion to send Suzaku in and threaten them all for ZR.

As for Nunnally, well... i kinda agree with you there but she had the same idea as Lelouch in making Domacles as the symbol of hatred. She was just short-sighted enough to not reach her hand to her left and see if Schienzel was manipulating her.
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Old 2008-10-15, 14:28   Link #1876
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
mis-lead by other people telling her facts which are actually true (he just didnt tell her all the facts) does not equal delusional
So I'm guessing all those people didn't die like Schienzel said
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Old 2008-10-15, 14:30   Link #1877
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by Train Samurai View Post
So I'm guessing all those people didn't die like Schienzel said
he didnt tell her that they died
he lied to her
you got my point all wrong
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Old 2008-10-15, 14:31   Link #1878
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Originally Posted by Train Samurai View Post
So I'm guessing all those people didn't die like Schienzel said
Of course. Freiya actually sends ya to a tropical paradise where you sit back and chill. Look at Guilford. Took him a while to come back to Cornelia's side and he had a pair of nice shades as well.

(note that this is entirely sarcastic)
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Old 2008-10-15, 14:34   Link #1879
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
he didnt tell her that they died
he lied to her
you got my point all wrong
That's what meant when Nunnally asked if there was anyone there he told her they all were evacuated before the launch. Which Cornelia saw through.
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Old 2008-10-15, 14:35   Link #1880
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Train Samurai View Post
That's what meant when Nunnally asked if there was anyone there he told her they all were evacuated before the launch. Which Cornelia saw through.
that was being lied to
not her being delusional
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