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Old 2008-10-15, 14:48   Link #1881
Train Samurai
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
that was being lied to
not her being delusional
Okay then, nevermind
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Old 2008-10-15, 14:51   Link #1882
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First of all...Nunnally got the switch after the Fleja was launched on Pendragon. And second of all Nunnally knew full well the people she was killing during the battle against Britannia, when she did have the switch. She was killing hundreds of lives during the battle with Lelouch, and Schniezel didn't even deceive her. She "accepted" her brother's sins.
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Old 2008-10-15, 14:53   Link #1883
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Originally Posted by hero147 View Post
First of all...Nunnally got the switch after the Fleja was launched on Pendragon. And second of all Nunnally knew full well the people she was killing during the battle against Britannia, when she did have the switch. She was killing hundreds of lives during the battle with Lelouch, and Schniezel didn't even deceive her. She "accepted" her brother's sins.
not accepted
she didnt accept them
she set out to stop them
and here is the crazy part
she did it becouse she loved him
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Old 2008-10-15, 15:45   Link #1884
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She set out to stop her brother's doings, because she had accepted his sins. She was willing to bear them.

On another, and completely unrelated note, I just found a thread on 2ch about "what if Lelouch cut his penis as atonement". It was... quite the read.
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Old 2008-10-15, 15:48   Link #1885
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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
She set out to stop her brother's doings, because she had accepted his sins. She was willing to bear them.

On another, and completely unrelated note, I just found a thread on 2ch about "what if Lelouch cut his penis as atonement". It was... quite the read.
it would have made it harder to pee
not like he uses it for anything else
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Old 2008-10-15, 16:45   Link #1886
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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
She set out to stop her brother's doings, because she had accepted his sins. She was willing to bear them.

On another, and completely unrelated note, I just found a thread on 2ch about "what if Lelouch cut his penis as atonement". It was... quite the read.
Hmm...He doesn't use it much. Only uses it halfway, I doubt that would be "suitable" atonement. It is much more suitable for someone in School Days...
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Old 2008-10-15, 16:54   Link #1887
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LMAO, crazy idea about Lelouch cutting his own penis xD

I was wondering, even though Lelouch dead/alive was discussed to death many times, with things looking like he's actually dead, what will happen if Sunrise wants to continue Code Geass?
- They could start with either another fictional universe or continue from where R2 left(peace disturbed, so on..)
- They could start from the end of R1, and continue from there, having a different ending from R2.

Atleast those are the possibilites I see. I'd hope they'd take the second route, since if they take the first, then what makes Code Geass special (i.e. Lelouch) wouldn't be there anymore. It'd be some average mecha anime with your average anime male hero (for example Suzaku or someone like him)
Lelouch is what made Code Geass for me
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Old 2008-10-15, 17:29   Link #1888
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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
She set out to stop her brother's doings, because she had accepted his sins. She was willing to bear them.

On another, and completely unrelated note, I just found a thread on 2ch about "what if Lelouch cut his penis as atonement". It was... quite the read.
Considering he didn't use it that much, I don't know why someone would consider that to be a proper punishment.
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Old 2008-10-15, 19:31   Link #1889
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Originally Posted by Extreme Coder View Post
LMAO, crazy idea about Lelouch cutting his own penis xD

I was wondering, even though Lelouch dead/alive was discussed to death many times, with things looking like he's actually dead, what will happen if Sunrise wants to continue Code Geass?
- They could start with either another fictional universe or continue from where R2 left(peace disturbed, so on..)
- They could start from the end of R1, and continue from there, having a different ending from R2.

Atleast those are the possibilites I see. I'd hope they'd take the second route, since if they take the first, then what makes Code Geass special (i.e. Lelouch) wouldn't be there anymore. It'd be some average mecha anime with your average anime male hero (for example Suzaku or someone like him)
Lelouch is what made Code Geass for me
I agree that Code Geass would not be the same without Lelouch. In addition, given how dissatisfied the production staff was with R2 overall, it might be possible that we might see Code Geass following in the footsteps of Mai Hime with an alternate universe type setting that takes place after R1. However, this could become the intended storyline that the staff had wanted for R2, but have a different ending and plot twist that could become quite different. So the feel of season one of Code Geass might be restored in this version. Afterall, Code Geass has become successful enough to warrant another series by Sunrise. This could be the original production staff's chance at remaking R2 into the format that they had wanted to present towards the late night audience. I certainly hope it happens.

Also, the production staff has a history of contradictions to anything related to R2 before it was released to the public. For example, they said that there would be romance developments and less deaths in R2. However, the opposite was true. Not to mention that they had mentioned that Lelouch would get a satisfactory end. Does death constitute as a satisfactory end? I don't think so.
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Old 2008-10-15, 20:12   Link #1890
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Also, the production staff has a history of contradictions to anything related to R2 before it was released to the public. For example, they said that there would be romance developments and less deaths in R2. However, the opposite was true. Not to mention that they had mentioned that Lelouch would get a satisfactory end. Does death constitute as a satisfactory end? I don't think so.
Well from my perspective, the production staff didnt contradict themselves there. There was romance development for each girl (yes there was, just in different ways and amounts). And besides Lelouch since that isnt clear as of right now, only a few characters relevant to the plot died. Most of them were mooks caught in Freija's explosion.

Refering to Lelouch's "death", if he did die, then yes it was satisfactory for him since he died accomplishing his goal of creating a better world for the people he loved (except Suzaku. His fate seems suitable from an audience POV but he may feel like it isnt enough for atonement. Again im not too sure here as its up in the air). If he didnt die, then its still a satisfactory end as ZR served its purpose except Lelouch now needs to constantly remain in hiding to prevent undoing his work. He may feel like crap about it but eventually he'll probably accept it as his way to atone. And this would be satisfactory for all Lelouch fans since he is still alive and for all ships to come up with some scenario to satisfy their shipping needs.
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Old 2008-10-15, 20:41   Link #1891
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Well lets see if I can put together my thoughts on this ending. As good of a anime this was, don't get me wrong I loved it. But for him to just die so easily at the end seems to be a waste of what a ture mastermind he really is. Maybe its just wishful thinking, but I would like to say that he did live. Simple made used his geass on someone and made a decoy of him self to just make it look like he has died, so he could have got away. I know the anime ended, just seems like there could be more. Well atleast to me, I hate sad endings and really after I just watch on of my favriots die.
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Old 2008-10-15, 20:49   Link #1892
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The only problem with Geassing someone else to die is that wouldn't work when someone checks to make sure Lelouch died when Suzaku as Zero stabbed him. They would be able to see that it isnt really him and it would end with the world still hunting down Lelouch.

I agree with you in that Lelouch should have survived to watch the peace is established and make sure it doesn't shatter. Death is a copout for him when he spilled so much blood to get to where he was. But then again, its not clear if he really died. There are some reasonable theories on how Lelouch survived. There is a social group about it and you should check it out to cheer yourself up about Lelouch's fate.
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Old 2008-10-15, 20:51   Link #1893
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Well lets see if I can put together my thoughts on this ending. As good of a anime this was, don't get me wrong I loved it. But for him to just die so easily at the end seems to be a waste of what a ture mastermind he really is. Maybe its just wishful thinking, but I would like to say that he did live. Simple made used his geass on someone and made a decoy of him self to just make it look like he has died, so he could have got away. I know the anime ended, just seems like there could be more. Well atleast to me, I hate sad endings and really after I just watch on of my favriots die.
Lelouch isn't the type to Geass someone into dying for him. At any rate, anything like that would have been discovered quickly. Plus, Nunally's 'lie detector' hands would have known it wasn't her brother. Plus, he wouldn't have those inspirational words to Suzaku. Plus, he wouldn't have had Lelouch's memories flash before his eyes as he died. Lelouch really did get run through, I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Pretty much the only way he survived was he had a Code (either the Emperor's or C.C.'s) OR he was resurrected via some other means. Mind you, either way, he would have had to have someone get his body before anyone noticed so he could come back w/o being buried in the ground.
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Old 2008-10-15, 21:37   Link #1894
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Well lets see if I can put together my thoughts on this ending. As good of a anime this was, don't get me wrong I loved it. But for him to just die so easily at the end seems to be a waste of what a ture mastermind he really is. Maybe its just wishful thinking, but I would like to say that he did live. Simple made used his geass on someone and made a decoy of him self to just make it look like he has died, so he could have got away. I know the anime ended, just seems like there could be more. Well atleast to me, I hate sad endings and really after I just watch on of my favriots die.
Lelouch isn't that kind of person

Lelouch knew what he did was wrong, and dying was one way to pay for it. He isn't some evil mastermind who wanted to do good, he was a good person who due to heavy flaws made a ton of mistakes.

You can rewatch the entire season, and see how many times he made massive mistakes, like blaming Britannia for Euphemia's massacre, which caused a massive anti-britannian riots, and nearly doomed any peace between Japan and Britannia.
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Old 2008-10-15, 21:49   Link #1895
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You can rewatch the entire season, and see how many times he made massive mistakes, like blaming Britannia for Euphemia's massacre, which caused a massive anti-britannian riots, and nearly doomed any peace between Japan and Britannia.
I don't disagree with the rest of your post, but this strikes me as beyond insane. How the hell was what he did after she started slaughtering innocent Japanese civilians a mistake? What was he supposed to do? Diethard had already jumped on it and broadcast the massacre. He took advantage of a bad situation, nothing more.

As for your supposed peace, what season are you watching? There is no Japan, there's Area 11, the place formerly known as Japan that Britannia conquered and enslaved.
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Old 2008-10-15, 22:47   Link #1896
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Also, the production staff has a history of contradictions to anything related to R2 before it was released to the public. For example, they said that there would be romance developments and less deaths in R2. However, the opposite was true. Not to mention that they had mentioned that Lelouch would get a satisfactory end. Does death constitute as a satisfactory end? I don't think so.
I'm sure the ending that Lelouch had was the one that the director/ writer wanted. I remember awhile back that Goro(I believe) said he already knew how the series was going to end in particular Lelouch. So I believe that was the satisfactory ending which he got. The romance developments was there. Shirley feelings pretty much stayed the same, C.C. was getting developed toward the end. If anything the romance with Kallen was pretty much the romance development of R2. There was no need to have Kallen fall for Lelouch when there were other potential LI's. There made sure to develop Kallen for that. Which I suppose was more important to show than also knowing about her family like explaining how Suzaku can do some of the things he can do. Some things I guess didn't need explaining. If Lelouch is alive however, I'm sure a movie could come out down the line given the popularity of Code Geass.

I'm not too sure about there being another/alternate R2. I'm thinking they put most of they wanted to happen in this season. Though there could be an alternate season but if that happens I suppose it would probably come out like a manga/movie or something given how the staff I think stated that the production of R2 was very hard. Not too sure if they would want to do it again. I'll say what's done is done. I rather have an extended episode 25 since to me that 2 month timeskip didn't have to be there. They could show what happened during that time and after Lelouch's death what the other characters are doing now.
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Old 2008-10-15, 22:48   Link #1897
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Guess your right, wishful thinking pretty much. I just hate how after seeing all that and all he went through with the black knights. In the end he was just a enemy to everyone the we come to know, and was taken out like that. To me lelouch made this a great anime to watch, and it sucked watching him just die. All good things must come to a end, would have liked to see another ending on thats a little bit happier then seeing his dead corpse in his little sisters hands and her crying...yeah that was a sad picture.
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Old 2008-10-15, 22:53   Link #1898
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Well, I personally, still think there is a good chance that he survived w/ C.C.'s Code, or (as Narona pointed out), he was resurrected by C.C.'s 'wish' to the gods when she was praying at the end. (Hey, they vaporized Lelouch's parents, how hard could it be to bring Lelouch back to life?). At which point, he's hidden himself from the world (and all the people he loved) to watch over the peace he created and is preventing the misuse of Geass. Seems to be a more appropriate penence then just dying.
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Old 2008-10-15, 23:19   Link #1899
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Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven View Post

I'm not too sure about there being another/alternate R2. I'm thinking they put most of they wanted to happen in this season. Though there could be an alternate season but if that happens I suppose it would probably come out like a manga/movie or something given how the staff I think stated that the production of R2 was very hard. Not too sure if they would want to do it again. I'll say what's done is done. I rather have an extended episode 25 since to me that 2 month timeskip didn't have to be there. They could show what happened during that time and after Lelouch's death what the other characters are doing now.
Remember that the sudden change of the timeslot, plus the fact that the producers had to reintroduce the characters to a different audience instead of the late night crowd, had some very serious alterations made to the original plans for R2 that was intended to retain the same format as season one. This caused a lot of chaos for the production staff. This is why things where not clear or addressed properly.

I don't believe that there was any serious love scenes for Lelouch at all. Sure Kallen was in love with Lelouch because she realized that there was something there between them. And there were other potential love interest that were never mentioned. Milly was a perfect example how a person's wanted to express her love for Lelouch. The proof is the fact that she had turned down over 51 potential canidates of Noble heritage because she wanted to marry for love and not a business arrangement to restore her family's Noble status. Milly had wanted Lelouch because her heart belonged to him, even though Lelouch was completely unaware of that. Personally, if Shirley died, Lelouch's potential love interests was actually two: Kallen and Milly. Originally, it was Shirley and Milly. Imagine if Lelouch had gone back to Ashford Academy after taking out the Geass Cult, Milly would have confronted him. Yes, I know that Milly is no longer a student. But she does live on the Ashford family's private residence. Anyway, what's done is done.

I agree that some people loved R2 the way it is while others, including myself, felt that it did not have the same format as season one. To me, R2 is a completely different series from season one altogether. Some might dispute that. But, in my opinion, R2 was not as consistant as season one. What the producers had intended for R2 was for it to continue the same consistancy as R1 to their late night audience and not the Sunday evening crowd because they would have to go through a lot of changes causes everything in their plans to be compromise. And this is what had happened.

I am not sure that we'll ever see Code Geass R2 go through a Mai Hime sort of remake. It's doubtful. But considering that Code Geass has become successful, it might actually happen because they killed off Lelouch to insure that the series doesn't continue for where R2 had left off. Rather it takes place where R1 had ended.

Last edited by darthfury78; 2008-10-15 at 23:31.
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Old 2008-10-16, 00:05   Link #1900
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I am one of those persons who cannot see death as atonement, but as simply running away. I did understand the plan: In order for a hero (Zero) to exist, there must be a villain (Lelouch), and that if the villain dies, everything would be good. Despite that, I found his death a bit too drastic.

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Originally Posted by darthfury78 View Post
this could become the intended storyline that the staff had wanted for R2, but have a different ending and plot twist that could become quite different
What'd be the point of presenting the "intended" storyline, if they're not going to deliver the end they had envisioned from the beginning? I'm quite sure the changes they had to made affected only the first couple of episodes (say, up to episode 10), since they had to made it newbie-friendly due to the new time-slot.

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they said that there would be romance developments
And there was. Otherwise, where do you think all the shippers came from?

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Originally Posted by darthfury78 View Post
and less deaths in R2
They said not too many characters would die. And, indeed, not many characters died. Some even came back to life when we thought they were dead.

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Originally Posted by darthfury78 View Post
Does death constitute as a satisfactory end? I don't think so.
Lelouch accomplished his goal. That's why it was satisfactory.
Satisfactory End ≠ Happy End

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Well, I personally, still think there is a good chance that he survived w/ C.C.'s Code
That'd contradict what C.C. did in Turn 15. She decided not to push the hell of eternal life on him, since it was a lonely and sad life. C.C. herself said no matter who may have loved you or who may have hated you, in the end, everything ends up as nothing but as dust in the wind. There's nothing lasting, but your own existence (This is one of the things why I found her profile at Geass.net to be quite contradictory). She tried to save Lelouch from that lonely kind of life.

The only way I see for Lelouch to have survived, would be if he inherited Charles' Code.

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he was resurrected by C.C.'s 'wish' to the gods when she was praying at the end
The gods were nothing but some sort of collective consciousness - they were not independent conscious beings. Also, they never granted Lelouch any wish; he used Geass on that collective consciousness in order to prevent time from being kept still. As for why Charles and Marianne disappeared, I wouldn't know. Maybe that was the price of trying to activate Ragnarök. (I've got to admit, Taniguchi and Co. made quite a bad job at explaining these kind of things.)
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