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Old 2008-10-18, 14:52   Link #6861
Ota-kun
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Random images.....as usual
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Old 2008-10-18, 14:58   Link #6862
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sute443 View Post
I couldn't really pull off the evil smile (okay, I didn't try; she's not evil), and I forgot the red whatever-they-weres (my reference pics didn't show them very well), but here you go.

That's almost exactly what I had in mind. Sweet.

And she might not be evil yet, but, well, power corrupts.

Especially the power of god.
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Old 2008-10-18, 15:08   Link #6863
Sute443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
And she might not be evil yet, but, well, power corrupts.

Especially the power of god.
She'd still be better than Haruhi, who even without knowledge of her power is evil.

Okay, maybe calling Haruhi "evil" is a bit too far. "Completely lacking both a sense of right and wrong and empathy for her fellow human beings" is more fair.
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Old 2008-10-18, 15:19   Link #6864
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sute443 View Post
She'd still be better than Haruhi, who even without knowledge of her power is evil.

Okay, maybe calling Haruhi "evil" is a bit too far. "Completely lacking both a sense of right and wrong and empathy for her fellow human beings" is more fair.
Oh. You're one of those.

(-100 respect points.)

Haruhi has many, many issues, but she's not that bad. If you've only seen the show, and are taking it too seriously, I can see why you'd think that, but she improves greatly in the light novels, where she basically starts to act as a mother to most of the brigade, especially Yuki.

She only doesn't really have much of a sense of right and wrong because she's very spoiled and sheltered... she's not evil, she's simply a child.

In addition, she's far more accepting of deviations from the norm than many people alive today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haruhi
Our doors are always open. Even to people who aren't really people.
Sasaki, however, is basically a Vulcan. No emotion, no empathy. Stagnant.

Her Closed Space is no better than Haruhi's. Whereas Haruhi's is full of destruction, Sasaki's is devoid of anything, good or bad. Neither is really favorable.

Whereas Haruhi at the beginning of the series being fully aware of her powers is terrifying, Haruhi now is much less so.

Sasaki, however, would be a nightmare.

Since her emotions are heavily repressed, what would happen if you let them all go at once?
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Old 2008-10-18, 16:32   Link #6865
Sute443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Oh. You're one of those.

(-100 respect points.)

Haruhi has many, many issues, but she's not that bad. If you've only seen the show, and are taking it too seriously, I can see why you'd think that, but she improves greatly in the light novels, where she basically starts to act as a mother to most of the brigade, especially Yuki.
I have read the novels (why would I speak in Sasaki's favor if I hadn't?). I simply never felt that she advanced from treating the brigade members like her toys. She does indeed react when something threatens them, but I think that her reactions are more like those of a spoiled child when someone threatens to take away a favorite toy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
She only doesn't really have much of a sense of right and wrong because she's very spoiled and sheltered... she's not evil, she's simply a child.
I, for one, would not like a child to have the powers of a god. There was an episode of the Twilight Zone that had that basic premise, wasn't there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
In addition, she's far more accepting of deviations from the norm than many people alive today.
Point. The only time I've ever felt respect for Haruhi was when she was talking about welcoming the oni.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Sasaki, however, is basically a Vulcan. No emotion, no empathy. Stagnant.
That's not the impression I got of Sasaki at all. The impression I got from her was that she is someone willing to accept that while the world may not have any anime-like events happening in it, it's still worth it to interact with people and enjoy life. She sees value in interacting with people for their own sake, rather than because they fit into some predefined character-type.

Look at Sasaki, who is helping to set up a Jr. High class reunion to see her old friends, compared to Haruhi, who is primarily interested in people only so far as her paranormal search is concerned. Remember Asakura, who attempted to reach out to Haruhi and become her friend, only to be rebuffed again and again. Of you think that's too early, then I give you Sakanaka. Sakanaka had been wanting to be Haruhi's friend for a while, but Haruhi only showed interest in her when she came to the Brigade for help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Her Closed Space is no better than Haruhi's. Whereas Haruhi's is full of destruction, Sasaki's is devoid of anything, good or bad. Neither is really favorable.
I'll take the preservation of the world as it is (granted, it does have great flaws) over the destruction of the world and its replacement by Haruhi's dramatic fantasies. Which would then probably be quickly destroyed in favor of a more peaceful boring world. I don't think Haruhi has ever realized (though she may have come close in Wandering Shadow) that an adventure means difficulty and probably suffering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Whereas Haruhi at the beginning of the series being fully aware of her powers is terrifying, Haruhi now is much less so.

Sasaki, however, would be a nightmare.

Since her emotions are heavily repressed, what would happen if you let them all go at once?
Why do you say that Sasaki represses her emotions? She comes across as friendly enough with Kyon that Haruhi creates Closed Space in response.

You talk about Sasaki repressing her emotions, but it sure looks to me like Haruhi is the one doing the repressing. Closed Space is the representation of the generator's mental state, or at least it seems that way from Koizumi's lectures. Haruhi is frustrated: the Shinjin smash. Haruhi is angry: the Shinjin smash HARDER. Haruhi is confused: the Shinjin stand around. Yet she doesn't really let those emotions show too much, especially the confusion.

Sasaki's closed space is calm and peaceful because Sasaki is calm and peaceful. There's no reason to think that she has some deep, underlying frustration just waiting to be unleashed.
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Old 2008-10-18, 17:11   Link #6866
Kaisos Erranon
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Sasaki's Closed Space is empty and stagnant. There is NOTHING THERE.

Kyon felt incredibly creeped out there and so would I.

I think the point is that no one should have the power, neither Sasaki or Haruhi. No human should be given this kind of control.

Nice reference to Anthony Fremont, but he was definitely evil and twisted from the start anyway. Wasn't one supposition that he's the devil's son or something.

And remember, Haruhi is supposed to be changing for the better. Kyon says it, everyone in the story says it.

Although Haruhi may not act like the best of people, she does have a kind heart, and her apparently negative qualities actually help everyone in certain ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyon
Nagato was our friend. And if someone from the SOS Brigade was to go missing, Haruhi would never let the matter rest. And it wasn't just Nagato, if Koizumi, or Asahina-san, or I had suddenly left, even by our own will, that girl wouldn't give us up so easily. She would resort to anything to bring us back. That's Suzumiya Haruhi, the pushy, self-centered, inconsiderate and troublesome Queen of the SOS Brigade for you.
I don't think that's being possessive. I think that's more motherly than anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sute443 View Post
Remember Asakura, who attempted to reach out to Haruhi and become her friend, only to be rebuffed again and again.
I found this funny. Asakura never wanted to be friends at all. She just wanted to cause Haruhi to change, as she looked at Haruhi as an "observation target".

As for Sakanaka, although Haruhi only started paying close attention to her when she showed up at the brigade, later in the story she only seems to want to go to Sakanaka's place to hang out with Sakanaka and her dog.

This, and that story is mainly about Haruhi growing closer with her classmates.

As for WHY I don't like Sasaki:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki
I've never understood the reasoning behind making the question of whether one is attractive or unattractive an issue in this life. I think that I want to be rational and logical, no matter the time, place, or situation. In accepting reality as it is, emotional and sentimental thought processes can be nothing but obstructive noise. I can't think of emotion as anything other than a crude shelter which impedes human evolution's progress towards autonomy. Especially feelings of love, it's like a kind of mental illness!
Haruhi says this too, but it's rather obvious it's her way of denying her attraction to Kyon.

Sasaki is completely serious about everything she says here.

Someone like this in control of the universe, frankly, terrifies me.
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Old 2008-10-18, 17:29   Link #6867
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Hmm... I have a feeling that something started.

Regardless... moar Image for the image thread.

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Old 2008-10-18, 17:31   Link #6868
Roger Rambo
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Ah, more of the "Haruhi/Sasaki is EVIL...NO SASAKI/HARUHI IS EVIL!" debate. I love it
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Old 2008-10-18, 17:35   Link #6869
Kaisos Erranon
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Sasaki isn't evil yet. She probably will end up being twisted into the role in the Betaverse by her brigade and by her powers.

Haruhi, although rather sociopathic at the beginning of the series, isn't evil. More like "neutral", and is slowly becoming more and more good.
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Old 2008-10-18, 17:54   Link #6870
Sute443
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Spoiler for Pretty long:
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Last edited by Sute443; 2008-10-18 at 18:29. Reason: Space
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Old 2008-10-18, 18:21   Link #6871
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When did this become the SOS Discussion thread.........
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Old 2008-10-18, 18:32   Link #6872
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sute443 View Post
*snip*
Yeah, let's drop this. We're filling up the image thread.

Would like to point out, though, that even if the Dark Brigade turn out to be evil, they're going to be portrayed realistically.

Fujiwara in particular seems like the kind of character susceptible to redemption, and all that implies.
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Old 2008-10-18, 19:03   Link #6873
Tunafishisgood
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Battle Start!


Let's see what kind of weapons they use in here

let the weapon roulette begin
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Old 2008-10-18, 19:04   Link #6874
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tunafishisgood View Post


Let's see what kind of weapons they use this time.
Little Busters? Interesting.

What I'm going to love for the LB anime is the fight sequences, I think. KyoAni needs to do more of those.

At least we should be getting one in Clannad next week.
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Old 2008-10-18, 19:35   Link #6875
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by Tunafishisgood View Post
Battle Start!
Those two seem to rearing up for hostilities, and people are picking sides. It's quite hard to pick one of them....so I'll take both.

*Shoots both of them with Tranq darts*

...what
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Old 2008-10-19, 00:50   Link #6876
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sute443 View Post
She'd still be better than Haruhi, who even without knowledge of her power is evil.

Okay, maybe calling Haruhi "evil" is a bit too far. "Completely lacking both a sense of right and wrong and empathy for her fellow human beings" is more fair.
The problem with ''good and evil'' is than nobody have the same set of value or gradation of value.
Do some one than do not share the same value than you or the same gradationt ov value would be Evil ?
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Old 2008-10-19, 00:57   Link #6877
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
The problem with ''good and evil'' is than nobody have the same set of value or gradation of value.
Do some one than do not share the same value than you or the same gradationt ov value would be Evil ?
I love it when people use this argument, for, you see, it fails to take into account that some thing are automatically evil, regardless of culture or society. Such as, say, rape. Rape is never not evil.

Everything except rape can be justified, and therefore, as long as one exception exists, evil can be proven to exist.

Now if only one could do the same thing for good...

Well, I suppose donating all your money to the poor automatically counts as good, but it of course depends on your motivation, etc.
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Old 2008-10-19, 01:11   Link #6878
Jintor
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She's not evil, she's just a jerk. A jerk who is slowly becoming less of a jerk.
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Old 2008-10-19, 01:15   Link #6879
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
She's not evil, she's just a jerk. A jerk who is slowly becoming less of a jerk.
The only problem with this view is the HUGE argument on the Haruhi Just Bugs Me page.

And all the trolls who perpetuate that argument.
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Old 2008-10-19, 01:27   Link #6880
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I haven't visited tropes in weeks and I'm not going to now. I NEED TO STUDY KAISOS, I CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE ANOTHER FOUR HOURS IN A SINKHOLE.
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