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Old 2008-10-17, 19:46   Link #121
Noe
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First ep was hilarious.
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Old 2008-10-18, 00:24   Link #122
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Still enjoyed ep02 but as others have commented, they are definately rushing it too much.
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Old 2008-10-18, 05:56   Link #123
Molenir
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I dont notice a huge difference in styles as much. Probably because I expect things in the second season to be slightly different.
Not getting to see Chiaki preform the song @ the end was a big surprise and disappointing but the major appeal of the series is interaction between Nodame and Chiaki, not huge ochestra scenes(those are a bonus) so I'm glad the new team understands that.
I disagree actually. Oh, not like you might think. Of course the interaction between Nodame and Chiaki is the core of this show. However what made the first season so outstanding, was the music as well. I mean, I've gone back and rewatched episode 11 at least a dozen times, not for the characters or the story, though thats always good, but rather for the music. It was the blend of music, humor, and story that made Nodame so outstanding. With the music gone, they've removed one of the legs of the tripod. Its still good. Nodame is funny, but without the music, it just isn't the same. And with them moving so fast, and skipping so much, they're shorting us on the story as well. I just hope they do better on the rest of it. Give us the music, give us the story, and give us the interactions!
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Old 2008-10-18, 22:57   Link #124
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I'm willing to withhold judgment on whether this season has the right mix of music and story. I, too, thought the performances were a critical aspect of the first season, but I can also see the constraints an eleven-episode timeframe presents. i don't really expect to see more than two or three performances each for Nodame and Chiaki of the length we saw in the first season. I've not read the manga, but my impression from reading discussions here is that the Paris chapter certainly has enough material to fill eleven episodes. Is this accurate?

I've written elsewhere how impressed I was that producers devoted so much time to the performances in the first season. Still I'd bet that collectively they constituted not much more than one hour of the eight the series lasted (leaving out the OP/ED of course). Applying the same proportion to an eleven-episode series gives us a bit less than half an hour, or six or seven four-minute performances.

I'll admit being disappointed that we didn't hear the Tschaikovsky, but I enjoyed the Glinka. I'd never heard that piece before.

Both my daughter and I were a bit surprised at Nodame's bust size. Neither one of us thought of her as quite that ample-bosomed. Looked like Chiaki hadn't noticed either. Must be her choice of wardrobe.
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Old 2008-10-18, 23:12   Link #125
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Both my daughter and I were a bit surprised at Nodame's bust size. Neither one of us thought of her as quite that ample-bosomed. Looked like Chiaki hadn't noticed either. Must be her choice of wardrobe.
That was one of my favorite moments of the episode

But I don't actually think Nodame is a D I think she just bought that size to impress Chiaki. At least that is what I got from the scene.

And I loved the Glinka too in fact that song Ruslan and Lyudmila Overture is used at a very pivotal moment in Princess Tutu, another anime series which used classical music that I love.

Last edited by Kirarakim; 2008-10-19 at 00:28.
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Old 2008-10-19, 00:59   Link #126
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Episode 2 article is up:

[RIUVA] Nodame Cantabile ~Paris Chapter~, Episode 2

This was ridiculous, disgusting direction on the part of Kon Chiaki. And I will not accept the 11-episode timeframe as an excuse; if you can't do it well with the time you have, don't do it at all, is how I see it. Now excuse me while I go make myself taller.
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Old 2008-10-19, 03:24   Link #127
Eczema
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Well I've never seen the drama or read the manga, and I thoroughly enjoyed the 2nd episode. Plenty of Nodame comedy, and well animated, albeit short, orchestra scenes.

It seems to me, in this instance as well as with other series like Toradora and Zero no Tsukaima, that the main complaints are from those who have experienced other source material and therefore have a sort of bias going into the anime, and I think that's unfair. This doesn't just go for Nodame: Paris, but for any series which has been scrutinized in this way: if you like the source material so much, stick with it and don't watch the anime, since any change at all would probably seem detrimental to the story.

An adaptation doesn't have to be exact scene-for-scene, and the director is allowed some liberties in constructing his own interpretation of the source material. Especially if the series hasn't finished yet. After the 11 episodes, it might be for the best that these omissions were made. I really don't think anyone can say that the Paris chapter has been completely butchered just from a few omissions in a single episode.
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Old 2008-10-19, 03:50   Link #128
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And I will not accept the 11-episode timeframe as an excuse; if you can't do it well with the time you have, don't do it at all, is how I see it.
I can't help but notice your enthusiasm for ef -a tale of memories, which is a severely condensed and partially rewritten version of the original story (hence the initial negativity from game fans, who deemed that experimental style and dramatic exaggeration aren't enough to compensate for butchery). In addition to heavy modification, nearly an entire scenario was excised.

If we went by the above ideals, ef would be on the banish list. The same can be said for several condensed, but nonetheless outstanding OVAs.

Familiarity with a source is bound to created biases. IMO, this episode is considerably sloppier than any of the original episodes, which disappoints me. However, when compared to other shows out there, it's still half-decent entertainment (and not having read the manga, last week's episode was as fun as the best Season 1 offerings).
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Old 2008-10-19, 04:03   Link #129
Eczema
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Originally Posted by rg4619 View Post
I can't help but notice your enthusiasm for ef -a tale of memories, which is a severely condensed and partially rewritten version of the original story (hence the initial negativity from game fans, who deemed that experimental style and dramatic exaggeration aren't enough to compensate for butchery). In addition to heavy modification, nearly an entire scenario was excised.

If we went by the above ideals, ef would be on the banish list. The same can be said for several condensed, but nonetheless outstanding OVAs.

Familiarity with a source is bound to created biases. IMO, this episode is considerably sloppier than any of the original episodes, which disappoints me. However, when compared to other shows out there, it's still half-decent entertainment (and not having read the manga, last week's episode was as fun as the best Season 1 offerings).
This may be slightly off-topic, but I never played the game or knew much about ef at all before watching it. But it turned out to be one of my favorite anime of 2007. Omissions be damned, ef is simply spectacular just the way it is. So too, Nodame: Paris can still be great, even with the omissions already discussed in this topic.
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Old 2008-10-19, 04:43   Link #130
Ascaloth
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Wonderful. The first responses I get in this thread after copy/pasting the link are a couple of ad hominem circumstantiae, along with a side helping of ignoratio elenchi. Should I expect some negacookies for dessert as well?

I made some very pertinent points about instances of plot holes and missed opportunities in the article, most of which should have been noticed even by those who haven't had any experience with the source material. I would rather you guys actually address the points that I made about the episode, instead of resorting to the fallacy of the single cause as an ad hominem circumstantial against me.
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Old 2008-10-19, 05:16   Link #131
Eczema
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What's with all the Latin? If you want to say something, just say it. I'm not the sort to negrep just because of a different opinion.

As for the validity of your arguments, as I said before, I've only seen the anime, so I can't really say "Yes, this omitted scene was critical", or "No, this scene can be reinserted later" or anything like that. Not sure what more I can say on this matter.

My main gripe was that you said the series was "butchered" already only after 2 episodes, due to some absent scenes or missed opportunities for character development. That's a bit of a stretch don't you think?

And my original comments, which you didn't address either, pertaining to adaptations still stands. If you wanted it to be exactly like the manga/drama, why not just read/watch them again? Is it so wrong for the anime do take a different direction?
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Old 2008-10-19, 05:39   Link #132
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Originally Posted by Eczema View Post
My main gripe was that you said the series was "butchered" already only after 2 episodes, due to some absent scenes or missed opportunities for character development. That's a bit of a stretch don't you think?
Not at all; when critical scenes for plot and character development are omitted just so that an entire arc can be squeezed into one episode, that constitutes plot butchering in any sense of the phrase. And I did not say the entire series was butchered; I only said as much for the Competition Arc.

Quote:
And my original comments, which you didn't address either, pertaining to adaptations still stands. If you wanted it to be exactly like the manga/drama, why not just read/watch them again? Is it so wrong for the anime do take a different direction?
Straw Man. Since when did I say that I expected this adaptation to be exactly like the manga source material?

It's not as if the live action drama followed the source material point-for-point either. There were many changes made to suit the format of the DVD special, but the difference between that and this anime series is that they made sure to include the critical scenes. This Paris Chapter episode didn't, and look what happened. Plot holes, sterilized characters, and especially lost character development which will only haunt the series down the line. What they're doing here is not "going down a different direction", it's just trigger-happy scene-cutting.

The series basically has "Nodame Cantabile" in its title, so I am fully within my rights to expect to get what I came for. I'm not calling the name of this series a complete misnomer as yet, but I don't like that they cut out so much of what made Nodame Cantabile, Nodame Cantabile.
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Old 2008-10-19, 05:45   Link #133
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Originally Posted by Eczema View Post
My main gripe was that you said the series was "butchered" already only after 2 episodes, due to some absent scenes or missed opportunities for character development. That's a bit of a stretch don't you think?

And my original comments, which you didn't address either, pertaining to adaptations still stands. If you wanted it to be exactly like the manga/drama, why not just read/watch them again? Is it so wrong for the anime do take a different direction?
I think we're beginning experience deja vu, for the few people who have seen both the two vastly different works that Kon had directed. Some similarities to behold here.

Firstly, the veterans whom had experienced original incarnation are screaming butchery due to the lack of inclusion of a few relatively nuanced, but essential bits to the narrative, and character buildup.

Secondly, I'm beginning to see that she(Kon) had prioritised certain aspects of the story far more than anything else(the horror for Higurashi, and the character comedy for Paris-Hen)during production, thereby leaving little inconsistencies here and there. As a result, whatever she concentrates on are masterfully done, but whatever's out of focus gets the short end of the stick.

How does this apply here? New viewers who don't have the source material in view, do not even know that the omitted material existed to begin with, and so are able to fully enjoy whatever's left, while the veterans are left to grit their teeth and hope to miss the next careless exclusion that the director makes. It took Ryukishi07 to join the creative team in order to be able to rectify that big error (from the veteran's POV) the first time, but with Ninomiya in maternity leave right now, I guess it's kind of expected for this one.
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Old 2008-10-19, 06:24   Link #134
Eczema
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Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
And I did not say the entire series was butchered; I only said as much for the Competition Arc.
True, but you did say you were contemplating dropping the series.

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Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Since when did I say that I expected this adaptation to be exactly like the manga source material?
That's true, my bad. I just assumed the above because all of your arguments were based on the absence of material from the manga/drama. So if later on in the series the omitted critical scenes were rearranged (perhaps shown in a flashback), or if the character development scenes were replaced with anime originals, would you still think poorly of the anime?
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Old 2008-10-19, 06:32   Link #135
Ascaloth
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Originally Posted by Eczema View Post
True, but you did say you were contemplating dropping the series.
Because the butchering of the Competition Arc has set a precedent for Kon Chiaki and J.C. Staff to possibly do the exact same thing to whatever arcs they want to cover within the next 9 episodes. Let's just say if that happens, that would REALLY cheese me off; thus the "dropping the series" thing.

You know, I didn't expect to have to spell out something like this in detail. Is my style of typing so ambiguous that people can't figure out the context? >_>

Quote:
That's true, my bad. I just assumed the above because all of your arguments were based on the absence of material from the manga/drama. So if later on in the series the omitted critical scenes were rearranged (perhaps shown in a flashback), or if the character development scenes were replaced with anime originals, would you still think poorly of the anime?
J.C. Staff would really have to jump through hoops to rearrange the omitted scenes in the later arcs. Frankly, I don't see that happening.

Anime originals, on the other hand. Let's see how well done they are first, if they even appear. 11 episodes, not much room for fillers or originals.
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Old 2008-10-19, 06:50   Link #136
Eczema
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Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
You know, I didn't expect to have to spell out something like this in detail. Is my style of typing so ambiguous that people can't figure out the context? >_>
No, it's probably me. I just skimmed over that blog entry the first time.
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Old 2008-10-19, 08:15   Link #137
Kirarakim
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Okay I admit I didn't read the manga chapters for the Paris Arc yet but I did see the live action and I don't think the plot points they skipped are that important. I think what was significant about Chiaki's performance was when he apologized for making a mistake so I am happy they showed that.

And yes I will take off some marks from the second episode for skipping the Tchaikovsky piece but I honestly think the first director is being held up on too high of a pedestal.

In that case I did read those manga chapters beforehand and watched the live action version and there was stuff that director skipped too like the Kotatsu scene which is one of my favorite scenes in the drama and manga.

As for the concert scenes in the 1st season half the time I could just listen to the music on a CD and pause the anime when the orchestra came up and there would be absolutely no difference with Kasai's idea of animation. At least Kon Chiaki actually makes the concert scenes somewhat engaging.


In the end I think both directors have their strengths and weaknesses and I wouldn't write off the second season at just the 2nd episode.

Last edited by Kirarakim; 2008-10-19 at 08:38.
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Old 2008-10-19, 09:17   Link #138
MissInformed
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Both my daughter and I were a bit surprised at Nodame's bust size. Neither one of us thought of her as quite that ample-bosomed. Looked like Chiaki hadn't noticed either. Must be her choice of wardrobe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
That was one of my favorite moments of the episode

But I don't actually think Nodame is a D I think she just bought that size to impress Chiaki. At least that is what I got from the scene.
Not that anyone cares, but here's how I'd explain it. I think it's probably real. It said 70 D, right? I'm assuming that means 70 cm? 70 cm is about 27.5 inches, which is a dang small band size. In the US, cup sizes are different for different band sizes. For example, 36 A = 34 B = 32 C. Plus, I don't think the letters mean the same in every country....


While I agree the 2nd episode felt kind of rushed, I'm holding out my judgment on whether or not there's enough music. They're still setting the stage for the remaining episodes. It's still fun to watch the character interactions.
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Old 2008-10-19, 13:47   Link #139
Kaoru Chujo
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I can't believe I'm doing this, but here is a link to an international bra size converter. Japanese 70D is US 32C and British 32D. I thought the staff might have made a mistake, sizing a European bra in the Japanese way, but it turns out that the EU and Japan use the same system.

And I really can't believe I'm doing this, but to see what the numbers mean in real life, Google "Japanese bra sizes explained." From japanprobe.com. All in the interests of further knowledge. Possibly not quite work-safe.

Here is a helpful forum answer about how Japanese sizes are calculated. And here is an article on changing sizes in Japan.
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Old 2008-10-19, 14:24   Link #140
Kirarakim
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Well I guess understanding the bra size makes you understand the joke better so it is relevant.

And you know Nodame doesn't look like a C to me either.
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