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View Poll Results: Nanoha StrikerS - Overall series rating
Perfect 10 47 16.04%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 51 17.41%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 57 19.45%
7 out of 10 : Good 62 21.16%
6 out of 10 : Average 44 15.02%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 8 2.73%
4 out of 10 : Poor 11 3.75%
3 out of 10 : Bad 3 1.02%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.34%
1 out of 10 : Painful 9 3.07%
Voters: 293. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-10-19, 01:48   Link #221
9taileddemon
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Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
The only one we see reporting to them is Regius since he is involved in the Scagletti conspiracy to import combat cyborgs into the TSAB. Of course this is done is the very ominous manner of darkened room with screens representing each of the High Council members with "Sound Only" on each. If they were a genuine ruling council to the TSAB, they wouldn't need for the secrecy nor such a sneaky means to accomplish their goals. Plus the only person who knew of their location was their assistance who maintained their machinery.

A council does govern the TSAB, which is the same one that gathered at Ground Force's HQ for the meeting right before the attack by Jail and his forces. That council consisted of the 3 legendary admirals and heads of each TSAB section.



The 'brains' as you refer to them were a means to develop the plot of bringing in combat cyborgs into the TSAB. Originally outlawed due to how they are 'produced,' Regius wanted to bring them into Ground Forces due to his beliefs that GF get shafted so to speak with all the Aces and powerful mages being deployed in other divisions. Thus they were the ones backing Regius and using him as their puppet of sorts to bring both of their goals to fruit. Not to mention they were over a century old which would explain the brain in jar look. The human body can only survive for so long and it was probably easier for them to stay alive with machines supporting their brains rather than their entire bodies. Plus it would have less of a trail to lead back to them with no need for food or other needs other than power and maintainable (which only their aid was able to do). Again I refer you to SEELE from Evangelion. Though they weren't brains but wrinkly old men who become a refreshing beverage. Yummy
I disagree with the first point. I actually do think they are the head of the TSAB. The reason they have to be secretive with their meetings with Regius is because they are breaking their own laws.

The sound only screen also is easy to understand. Who really wants to be looking at brains if they don't have to. Also it is doubtful the High Council really wanted anybody to know that they were just brains.

For the secrecy part about the whole sound only thing and only the assistant knowing where they are, it kind of reminds me of Black Cat with the Chronos Elders. They were the head of the organization. Everyone knew they were the head of the organization. Only like two people knew where they were so that they could avoid being assassinated. Same thing with the TSAB High Council (First of all I doubt they would be called that if it was supposed to be a secret group.) Since they are the leaders and are only brains at this point, they are probably freaked out about being attacked while they are defenseless. So they make it so nobody knows their location. Didn't really work in the end but it was a good try.

I do know about the council that showed up for the big meeting, but I don't think there being a HIGH Council is to hard to imagine.

Also, if they really were a secret group that only manipulates Regius, then why would Jail even use the time to kill them? He planned on killing Regius himself anyways and that would leave them with no connections.


I already do understand what their purpose is. I understood after just watching the show. My only thing is that I think it wasted time and could have been done in some other way. Seven Arcs probably could have just shown seens of Regius talking to Jail and removed the whole High Council.
I think there was only one real reason they existed and that was to demonstrate again how Due can change her apperance and is good at espionage. However she dies like two episodes later so why should we really care.
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Old 2008-10-19, 11:43   Link #222
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I disagree with the first point. I actually do think they are the head of the TSAB. The reason they have to be secretive with their meetings with Regius is because they are breaking their own laws.
Well when you come up with conclusive evidence to support this claim and disprove the Brains/SEELE comparison, come back and let us know.
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Old 2008-10-19, 16:18   Link #223
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I disagree with the first point. I actually do think they are the head of the TSAB. The reason they have to be secretive with their meetings with Regius is because they are breaking their own laws.

The sound only screen also is easy to understand. Who really wants to be looking at brains if they don't have to. Also it is doubtful the High Council really wanted anybody to know that they were just brains.

For the secrecy part about the whole sound only thing and only the assistant knowing where they are, it kind of reminds me of Black Cat with the Chronos Elders. They were the head of the organization. Everyone knew they were the head of the organization. Only like two people knew where they were so that they could avoid being assassinated. Same thing with the TSAB High Council (First of all I doubt they would be called that if it was supposed to be a secret group.) Since they are the leaders and are only brains at this point, they are probably freaked out about being attacked while they are defenseless. So they make it so nobody knows their location. Didn't really work in the end but it was a good try.

I do know about the council that showed up for the big meeting, but I don't think there being a HIGH Council is to hard to imagine.

Also, if they really were a secret group that only manipulates Regius, then why would Jail even use the time to kill them? He planned on killing Regius himself anyways and that would leave them with no connections.


I already do understand what their purpose is. I understood after just watching the show. My only thing is that I think it wasted time and could have been done in some other way. Seven Arcs probably could have just shown seens of Regius talking to Jail and removed the whole High Council.
I think there was only one real reason they existed and that was to demonstrate again how Due can change her apperance and is good at espionage. However she dies like two episodes later so why should we really care.
So, the brains truly are the heads of the TSAB

They wanted to create an army of artificial mages (like the Clone Wars) and they used a motherf$%&@" clone (Jail) to make the research

The brains remained in clandestinity to make sure noone suspect of their illegal contacts, Jail send Duo to take out the brains when the time has come so they coulkd do nothing to stop his.... hummm... Research? Reserach for what?!

Crap! StrikerS plot is more complicated that The Davinci-code!

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Well when you come up with conclusive evidence to support this claim and disprove the Brains/SEELE comparison, come back and let us know.
We should do something about that agresive actitude of yours
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Old 2008-10-19, 17:21   Link #224
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Crap! StrikerS plot is more complicated that The Davinci-code!
...

...

I have a headache...

To be honest I always expected Jail to run off with Fate and Erio at some point alongside Vivio; honestly, he expressed so much interest in them that I was surprised that nothing more was born from it than him getting his backside handed to him by Bardiche.

And hell, don't get me started on the whole "Ginga being brainwashed into Number 13" thing. That one had so much plot potential I could cry. Seriously, just go the route of "character is brainwashed and captured but regains sanity and plays along to figure out what's going on" and you could have expanded on the Numbers, Jail, even Lutecia.

Heck, in general, I feel as though Lutecia and Zest got the short end of the stick in this series. Agito, too. The three of them had so much potential and so much of their story to be told, but nooooo....

I still don't totally understand Zest, though. Was he dead and brought back to life, or was he just fatally injured and nursed back to health by Cinque? Because the anime was never clear on which he was.
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Old 2008-10-19, 23:12   Link #225
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Heck, in general, I feel as though Lutecia and Zest got the short end of the stick in this series. Agito, too. The three of them had so much potential and so much of their story to be told, but nooooo....

I still don't totally understand Zest, though. Was he dead and brought back to life, or was he just fatally injured and nursed back to health by Cinque? Because the anime was never clear on which he was.
Sigh. I agree that Lutecia and Agito got the short end of the stick with their stories.

Lutecia had almost no development and all the stuff that could have been talked about regarding Signum/Agito was ignored.

I think that Zest actually got an okay amount of information. Well, compared to some of the other characters at least.

No. Zest did get killed by Cinque. Jail then used his cloning techniques and stuff to make the artificial mage Zest. Then he went and put Zests' memories into the Artificial mage.

However, when Jail did this he still had not perfected the method so Zest's body constanly deteriorated after his revival. Eventually he got to Regius, was about to get his questions answered, and the Due decieded to be a BIACH and killed Regius. But she got her just desserts and was then killed by Zest. Then Signum went and gave Zest a knights death.
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Old 2008-10-20, 06:23   Link #226
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Crap! StrikerS plot is more complicated that The Davinci-code!
Agree with all points, except this one. Macross Frontier was simpler, and it actually had a twist, rather than something we saw coming in StrikerS.
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Old 2008-10-20, 07:48   Link #227
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We should do something about that agresive actitude of yours
Like what, Rick? Be disapproving? Frown at me and use lots of emotes to express your displeasure? If you think you can silence the skeptic in me, feel free to "do some about my aggressive attitude" Rick. Until then, I'll continue to scoff at theories that go directly against what we are told in canon.
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Old 2008-10-20, 10:38   Link #228
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Agree with all points, except this one. Macross Frontier was simpler, and it actually had a twist, rather than something we saw coming in StrikerS.
I never saw that anime

I'm just saing that 7arcs complicated themselves with the plot a lot, they could made the things much more simpler, reducing the number of New Characters, and focusing the story on a single plot since the begining, I mean, they had 26 chapters!

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Like what, Rick? Be disapproving? Frown at me and use lots of emotes to express your displeasure? If you think you can silence the skeptic in me, feel free to "do some about my aggressive attitude" Rick. Until then, I'll continue to scoff at theories that go directly against what we are told in canon.
No Comartemis, unfortunely, my words will never change you

I'm just saing that you should be less rough when posting
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Old 2008-10-20, 11:01   Link #229
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You have obviously never ever spoken to Wild Goose or TK1997 when they're in a bad mood, Rick. My comments are as mild as a spring rain compared to the pain they bring to the forums whenever they get a reason to start bitching about something.
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Old 2008-10-20, 12:07   Link #230
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You have obviously never ever spoken to Wild Goose or TK1997 when they're in a bad mood, Rick. My comments are as mild as a spring rain compared to the pain they bring to the forums whenever they get a reason to start bitching about something.
Yes Comartemis, I know very well people like Wild Goose when they are in a "Moderator wanna be" mode, for people like them, is that decided to get away of the OC thread

I'm just saing that you sound really agressive whne demanding 9taileddemon to post probs to backup his arguments hwne he was just tring to help
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Old 2008-10-20, 12:24   Link #231
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I disagree with the first point. I actually do think they are the head of the TSAB. The reason they have to be secretive with their meetings with Regius is because they are breaking their own laws.
Braking their own laws does not mean that had to go that far for secrecy. It has been known for military in our own world to green-light missions that are against their country's and their own laws. Rather than having all this cloak and dagger planning they have the simple "If you get caught we will deny everything" policy. Why do you think we have all these top-secret documents that the government doesn't release until decades later about secret missions?

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The sound only screen also is easy to understand. Who really wants to be looking at brains if they don't have to. Also it is doubtful the High Council really wanted anybody to know that they were just brains.
If they were in fact the ruling body of a multi-dimensional military organization why would they have to hide their appearance? Their hiding would only cause more suspicion amongst their peers and other members of the TSAB.

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For the secrecy part about the whole sound only thing and only the assistant knowing where they are, it kind of reminds me of Black Cat with the Chronos Elders. They were the head of the organization. Everyone knew they were the head of the organization. Only like two people knew where they were so that they could avoid being assassinated.
And was Chronos a legitimate group known far and wide? I quote Wiki: "Chronos is the secret organization that rules one third of the world through underground business in various areas." Bad comparison to try and support your points

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Same thing with the TSAB High Council (First of all I doubt they would be called that if it was supposed to be a secret group.) Since they are the leaders and are only brains at this point, they are probably freaked out about being attacked while they are defenseless. So they make it so nobody knows their location. Didn't really work in the end but it was a good try.
The name does not matter. If we were to judge a group by its name then there'd be a ton of cultist and other fanatical groups that would be 'good' or 'legitimate.' Hiding wouldn't necessarily be a good thing if they were the heads of the TSAB. Should some disaster or major attack happen where they were in fact threatened, how would they get support at their location? Guards and other securities are put in place to protect important people and they would be no different.

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I do know about the council that showed up for the big meeting, but I don't think there being a HIGH Council is to hard to imagine.
Then that would defeat the purpose of having a TSAB-wide meeting of all heads and leads if they were not present. Not to mention having a group of 3 people run something for over a century kinda defeats the democracy of the TSAB.

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Also, if they really were a secret group that only manipulates Regius, then why would Jail even use the time to kill them? He planned on killing Regius himself anyways and that would leave them with no connections.
There was nothing stated (nor did I state) Regius was the only one. He was the only one we SAW. If they were in fact as old as they said they most likely had more than one contact within the TSAB through which they could attempt to manipulate the organization. Plus the High Council was pulling the strings behind Regius and had to know of Jail if they were confiding with Regius and how to handle the Combat Cyborgs. And they knew of Due when she killed them, meaning they knew of Jail and Jail knew of them.

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I already do understand what their purpose is. I understood after just watching the show. My only thing is that I think it wasted time and could have been done in some other way. Seven Arcs probably could have just shown seens of Regius talking to Jail and removed the whole High Council.
I think there was only one real reason they existed and that was to demonstrate again how Due can change her apperance and is good at espionage. However she dies like two episodes later so why should we really care.
The purpose of the High COuncil was to add in the aspect of corruption in the TSAB. They just added a tech/sci-fi twist by having the corruption be around for decades by a small group who used technology to sustain themselves. Several points can be drawn like the corruption of power, what happens when people get a god-like mentality, and that nothing is safe from some corruption or manipulation.
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Old 2008-10-20, 13:12   Link #232
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Yes Comartemis, I know very well people like Wild Goose when they are in a "Moderator wanna be" mode, for people like them, is that decided to get away of the OC thread

I'm just saing that you sound really agressive whne demanding 9taileddemon to post probs to backup his arguments hwne he was just tring to help
Of course I sound aggressive. 9 is more or less saying "Canon (or at the very least, the most widely-accepted interpretation of it) is wrong, this is what I think is right" without offering up any reasons as to why he interprets this portion of the series differently.

I would ask the same question of someone who read the novel and decided it was canon and tried to tell me that TSAB forcibly recruits mages off of Non-Administrated Worlds. "Prove it according to the anime. Where do you see evidence of this and how do you respond to the prevailing opinion/interpretation?" Perhaps there was a bit more venom in my tone than was necessary, but I would still like to see 9 back up his claims regardless.
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Old 2008-10-20, 18:27   Link #233
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Of course I sound aggressive. 9 is more or less saying "Canon (or at the very least, the most widely-accepted interpretation of it) is wrong, this is what I think is right" without offering up any reasons as to why he interprets this portion of the series differently.

I would ask the same question of someone who read the novel and decided it was canon and tried to tell me that TSAB forcibly recruits mages off of Non-Administrated Worlds. "Prove it according to the anime. Where do you see evidence of this and how do you respond to the prevailing opinion/interpretation?" Perhaps there was a bit more venom in my tone than was necessary, but I would still like to see 9 back up his claims regardless.
Um. I did give my views and interpertations in why I think that the High Council is not just some secret corrupt group that controls the TSAB from the shadows. I kind of wrote a mini essay up there.

@Evangelion Xgouki

You do make some good counter points and I am sure that if we wanted to we could argue about this over a couple of days and have a big long discussion.
However my brain has been burned out today from a large AP Biology and AP US History test so I really don't feel like doing that.

For now I think I will just use the "we each have our own opinion" excuse to drop out of this argument for now. It is doubtful that either of us are going to change our views anytime soon and I need to use most of my brain cells for a big project coming up.

Maybe this weekend I will go and restart this if you wish.

DARN YOU SCHOOLWORK. Taking my time away from having fun debates with people.
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Old 2008-10-20, 19:18   Link #234
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I would ask the same question of someone who read the novel and decided it was canon and tried to tell me that TSAB forcibly recruits mages off of Non-Administrated Worlds. "Prove it according to the anime. Where do you see evidence of this and how do you respond to the prevailing opinion/interpretation?" Perhaps there was a bit more venom in my tone than was necessary, but I would still like to see 9 back up his claims regardless.
Poking at me ... hmm?

The problem is, if it has canon status, then no other sources are necessary to prove its existence. If it is not canon, then it doesn't matter. Canon status is decided before you started interpreting (one of the reasons being so you can't throw out a source because it has tidbits you don't like).

Frankly, if someone wants to say the novel is non-canon because it contradicts the anime, a much better point of complaint is where are those "less than 5%" AAA mages!

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Of course I sound aggressive. 9 is more or less saying "Canon (or at the very least, the most widely-accepted interpretation of it) is wrong, this is what I think is right"
Colors added by me. Red and Blue are completely different concepts, and barely belong in the same sentence.

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Old 2008-10-21, 03:29   Link #235
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Poking at me ... hmm?

The problem is, if it has canon status, then no other sources are necessary to prove its existence. If it is not canon, then it doesn't matter. Canon status is decided before you started interpreting (one of the reasons being so you can't throw out a source because it has tidbits you don't like).

Frankly, if someone wants to say the novel is non-canon because it contradicts the anime, a much better point of complaint is where are those "less than 5%" AAA mages!
The difference between those two is that 'less then 5%' was never contradicted. We see tons of below AAA mages in the anime, but the amount of AAA and higher can be counted on your hands, which only supports this.

Conscription, however, was never suported by the anime, nor any of the other sources, and continously disproven by all the characters who are bing given a choice. Yes, you can say 'but those characters had high-ranking people guarding them!' but if anyone can apparenty ignore that rule by choice without any repircussions, does that rule exist at all?

Furthermore, the anime, manga and soundstages does everything to depict the TSAB as the friendly neighborhood watch rather then the big evil military that kidnaps kids for their army. Point in this case being the currently debated High Council, if the TSAB really doesn't want to bother looking nice, why do they have to hide their lower humanitarian research?

I have no problem accepting information from any of the three conanical sources, however the Novel has already shown to be directly contradicting all three, so everything it states should be taken with a grain of salt. If the information it states is not directly contradicted, then we can safely incorporate it. If what it states is directly contradicted, then the novel, which has already shown itself to be out of line, is the source that will be seen as non-canon.
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Old 2008-10-21, 05:21   Link #236
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The difference between those two is that 'less then 5%' was never contradicted. We see tons of below AAA mages in the anime, but the amount of AAA and higher can be counted on your hands, which only supports this.
Actually, from what is being shown in the anime, if they said that there were fewer than 5 AAA or better mages (not "percent") until Nanoha and Co joined in, it'll probably be a better fit to what we've actually seen. I mean, who did we actually see except for our heroines. We have Chrono (1), Zest was still alive back then (2), Lindy was probably (though not explicitly stated) at least that (so 3 maybe). That leaves one. That one didn't even show up for StrikerS as the capital was held hostage...!

Unless the TSAB mage population was horribly small, it sure as heck doesn't look like 5%. Yet no one ever even tries a tsukkomi down this route. It is always the impressment part. Funny, hmm?

Quote:
Conscription, however, was never suported by the anime, nor any of the other sources, and continously disproven by all the characters who are bing given a choice. Yes, you can say 'but those characters had high-ranking people guarding them!' but if anyone can apparenty ignore that rule by choice without any repircussions, does that rule exist at all?
Rather than go into-depth, I'll point out that the voluntary nature says that the rule was never tested. Your argument is like saying that the Soviets don't have conscription by pointing to several close friends signing up for a Higher Command School (VKU). Or maybe the pro-government press as evidence of freedom of speech.

Also, if a rule is bent due to powerful people, it does not mean the rule does not exist. It means that the system is corrupt.

Quote:
Furthermore, the anime, manga and soundstages does everything to depict the TSAB as the friendly neighborhood watch rather then the big evil military that kidnaps kids for their army. Point in this case being the currently debated High Council, if the TSAB really doesn't want to bother looking nice, why do they have to hide their lower humanitarian research?
If I go along with this intent argument, consider this. The little blurb we're fighting over right now is right in the novel by the author. Thus, it is very clearly part of the author's intent of what goes into the TSAB. There are several possible reasons for this, including:
1) The author did not intend for the TSAB to be as white as you think it is.
2) The author did not believe that this impressment stuff blackens the TSAB (and certainly, there are ways to calculate this as a net positive).

Which by the way shows one of the greatest problems with "premise / intent" rather than observational analysis. What almost always happens is that the debater's own premises and intents are projected onto the author's. You assume that the author intended to show the TSAB as goody-goody, when in fact the author's definition of goody may be a bit different from your own, never mind whether he really intended to show them as goody-goody.

Quote:
I have no problem accepting information from any of the three conanical sources, however the Novel has already shown to be directly contradicting all three, so everything it states should be taken with a grain of salt. If the information it states is not directly contradicted, then we can safely incorporate it. If what it states is directly contradicted, then the novel, which has already shown itself to be out of line, is the source that will be seen as non-canon.
Quite frankly, in comparison to the 5% stuff (which can barely hold when they weren't trying to save their capital...) there are hardly any problems.

Here's the question. You've apparently agreed that we should at least incorporate as much of the novel data as we can. If some character said this in the anime, will you reject it on the account it is "directly contradicted", or will you work with it?

If you will work with it, that means it is not "directly contradicted" in your book, in which case you have to consider your real reasons for considering it a "direct contradiction". But if it is not a direct contradiction, then you have to incorporate it and work with it.
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Old 2008-10-21, 05:33   Link #237
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No. Zest did get killed by Cinque. Jail then used his cloning techniques and stuff to make the artificial mage Zest. Then he went and put Zests' memories into the Artificial mage.

However, when Jail did this he still had not perfected the method so Zest's body constanly deteriorated after his revival. Eventually he got to Regius, was about to get his questions answered, and the Due decieded to be a BIACH and killed Regius. But she got her just desserts and was then killed by Zest. Then Signum went and gave Zest a knights death.
...

Why did I never figure that out? D:

Thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 2008-10-21, 08:39   Link #238
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Um. I did give my views and interpertations in why I think that the High Council is not just some secret corrupt group that controls the TSAB from the shadows. I kind of wrote a mini essay up there.
You did. But you didn't say why. Why should we accept this view over the one we have already accepted as canon? Kero's right, the Bureau as a whole is supposed to be made up of "the good guys" in this series. Even Regius, much as I loathe the guy, ultimately had the best interests of the people he was supposed to be protecting in mind when he started his career; it's just that he hit something of a slippery slope and crossed over into moral ambiguity when he teamed up with Jail, and in an idealistic series like Nanoha that's pretty much tantamount to becoming a villain.

So if the Bureau is as good as canon says it is, why should we accept the notion that the legitimate higher-ups are anything except pure and noble defenders of the innocent? That's what you haven't said yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
Poking at me ... hmm?
Not you specifically, but anyone who holds the novel to be canon. Since I can't read Japanese or get my hands on a translated copy I wouldn't be able to use it as a source even if I wanted to tarnish the bureau's image for some bizarre reason, and since I don't I have no reason to bother in the first place.
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Old 2008-10-21, 09:05   Link #239
arkhangelsk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
Braking their own laws does not mean that had to go that far for secrecy. It has been known for military in our own world to green-light missions that are against their country's and their own laws. Rather than having all this cloak and dagger planning they have the simple "If you get caught we will deny everything" policy. Why do you think we have all these top-secret documents that the government doesn't release until decades later about secret missions?
Actually, when you break your own laws, you do do your best to maintain secrecy, so you can plausibly "deny everything". It'll look really bad for you when you say "We really know nothing about this" and then someone shows a recording of your formal order.

Quote:
If they were in fact the ruling body of a multi-dimensional military organization why would they have to hide their appearance? Their hiding would only cause more suspicion amongst their peers and other members of the TSAB.
Image. They are the heroes of the past. If it is not possible to maintain the proper image visually, then what's left is to rely on voice and uncertainty.

Besides, we only really saw them talking to Regius, so the chance exists they'll do something else with other audiences.

Quote:
The name does not matter. If we were to judge a group by its name then there'd be a ton of cultist and other fanatical groups that would be 'good' or 'legitimate.'
True, but a name within an organization does imply its place. For example, before you decide that "High Command" means a platoon command post, you better have some darn good reasons, and all else being even, it'll lose out to a solution that uses that name correctly.

One can also consider that both the High Council themselves, and the Three Admirals, agree that the group's role was "見守る". The kanji literally means "watching and protecting", and it is a term that implies supervision.

Generally, it means that you are letting someone subordinate to you do something, and if everything goes well you won't interfere, but you are seeing how they are doing. The "protect" part is that you are ready to intervene if you feel necessary. So the diction itself implies the Council has power, even though they don't interfere day-to-day. That the Three Admirals agree that was their role suggests that they have legal power to intervene.

Quote:
Then that would defeat the purpose of having a TSAB-wide meeting of all heads and leads if they were not present. Not to mention having a group of 3 people run something for over a century kinda defeats the democracy of the TSAB.
That depends on their governmental structure.

By the way, you are going to have to help me here. Where did they explicitly say that it is a democracy, in the Western sense of the word. We already know that they are a little different from contemporary Western ideas of ideal government, such as their mingling of enforcement and judiciary into one organization, a dangerous concentration by Western theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
You did. But you didn't say why. Why should we accept this view over the one we have already accepted as canon?
Here's what I saw. He expressed his opinion. He did not necessarily say that you were wrong. Then Xgouki blasted him.

Quote:
Kero's right, the Bureau as a whole is supposed to be made up of "the good guys" in this series.
Aah, the problems with "premise" people.

Step 1: Assume the TSAB is good.
Step 2: Assume that the TSAB's idea of good is equivalent to your own.
Step 3: Aggressively attack anybody who dares review the evidence to see if they actually match up to your personal ideas of "good".

I can understand the lazy desire to associate "protagonist's organization" with "good". I do that for 99% of shows myself. However, if one goes down this path, IMO one should be more open to someone who thinks different.

Quote:
Even Regius, much as I loathe the guy, ultimately had the best interests of the people he was supposed to be protecting in mind when he started his career; it's just that he hit something of a slippery slope and crossed over into moral ambiguity when he teamed up with Jail, and in an idealistic series like Nanoha that's pretty much tantamount to becoming a villain.

So if the Bureau is as good as canon says it is, why should we accept the notion that the legitimate higher-ups are anything except pure and noble defenders of the innocent? That's what you haven't said yet.
Umm, what's so hard with accepting that they've turned utilitarian, like Regius? IMHO, It is a transition that most have to make to some degree before they can take the really big jobs, because deontological ethics begins to fail at the highest levels in times of crisis.

And why do you loathe Regius so much?

Quote:
Not you specifically, but anyone who holds the novel to be canon. Since I can't read Japanese or get my hands on a translated copy I wouldn't be able to use it as a source even if I wanted to tarnish the bureau's image for some bizarre reason, and since I don't I have no reason to bother in the first place.
Most people who hold the novel to be canon probably already swallowed it down without even thinking about it. It didn't even register.

Last edited by arkhangelsk; 2008-10-21 at 09:28.
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Old 2008-10-23, 21:00   Link #240
CuXe
Loving Romeo X Juliet
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: City of Angels
K so gotta say, this was a good anime but as always it falls short as far as the plot. There were many openings for good stuff such as the Signum/Agito moments but they were left undeveloped

Also.... I thought they were going to elaborate more as far as what happened to all the impregnated androids who are carrying the seed of this crazy scientist .... are they going to have evil babies now? I thought that part was left unchecked.....

The good parts for me were:

-- The Nanoha/Fate and Vivio mothers/daughter relationship ... very cute actually since Nanoha really did assume the roll of a mother .... (she was also kinda like everyones mother in the anime...)

-- The first mock fight when Nanoha struck down this other chick in her team (very nice!) ... gave Nanoha an edgier profile except for the fact that the shots she fired were hollow. Nice nonetheless.

-- Signum + Agito unison ... while I strongly feel the writers could have elaborated and developed more of a relationship between these two... the whole thing felt too rushed. Agito was very cute tho ... also liked the last part when Agito plays around with Zwei

-- Fate's final form (very hawt!.. Fato mama! ...lol)

-- The part when Ginga was taken away from Subaru ....not much the rescue... but the part when Ginga was captured... I loved Subaru's reaction, she really went Berserk that time

-- The battle androids were very hawt .... and number 4 was crazy as hell or ... at least as crazy as Jail..

I think that the whole Ginga/Subaru fight and drama was just an added goody... it didn't do much for me. Also, I don't know if the transformations which took ~20 sec each were intended as some sort of fan service but must say ... if that was the idea... it didn't meet the expectations and initial intentions because must girls in Nanoha were drawn to be cute fighters instead of hawt battle babes .... feel free to elaborate on this one ..
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