AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Macross

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-10-21, 10:33   Link #1161
Daigo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Ok, to try and steer the discussion towards macross again, maybe we can talk abou the koenig monster. It seems to serve the role of mobile artillery. I kinda like the idea of a bomber that can transform into a ground based artillery platform. I mean hell, if your artillery is that mobile, you definitely have some advantages on the battlefield. But the thing that baffles me is, what the hell is the point of the legs? Lets ignore the fact that it even transforms in space, which I can't understand a single point to that, but even on a planet, I don't see the point. It can barely walk as it is, so it's definitely not for all terrain movement. Not to mention since it can fly, it really doesn't need all terrain movement.
Daigo is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 10:44   Link #1162
Skane
Anime Snark
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 31
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigo View Post
Ok, to try and steer the discussion towards macross again, maybe we can talk abou the koenig monster. It seems to serve the role of mobile artillery. I kinda like the idea of a bomber that can transform into a ground based artillery platform. I mean hell, if your artillery is that mobile, you definitely have some advantages on the battlefield. But the thing that baffles me is, what the hell is the point of the legs? Lets ignore the fact that it even transforms in space, which I can't understand a single point to that, but even on a planet, I don't see the point. It can barely walk as it is, so it's definitely not for all terrain movement. Not to mention since it can fly, it really doesn't need all terrain movement.
Battroid-mode.

Cheers.
__________________
Skane is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 10:55   Link #1163
Urei
Star Designer
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Europe
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigo View Post
Ok, to try and steer the discussion towards macross again, maybe we can talk abou the koenig monster. It seems to serve the role of mobile artillery. I kinda like the idea of a bomber that can transform into a ground based artillery platform. I mean hell, if your artillery is that mobile, you definitely have some advantages on the battlefield. But the thing that baffles me is, what the hell is the point of the legs? Lets ignore the fact that it even transforms in space, which I can't understand a single point to that, but even on a planet, I don't see the point. It can barely walk as it is, so it's definitely not for all terrain movement. Not to mention since it can fly, it really doesn't need all terrain movement.
Well, which mode do you mean? Gerwalk or Battroid? Both have advantages in every terrain type, though Batroid is less useful in space combat.
__________________

AD 2314 Mobile Suit Gundam 00
~A wakening of the Trailblazer~

Urei is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 11:35   Link #1164
Wild Goose
Truth Martyr
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigo View Post
Ok, to try and steer the discussion towards macross again, maybe we can talk abou the koenig monster. It seems to serve the role of mobile artillery. I kinda like the idea of a bomber that can transform into a ground based artillery platform. I mean hell, if your artillery is that mobile, you definitely have some advantages on the battlefield. But the thing that baffles me is, what the hell is the point of the legs? Lets ignore the fact that it even transforms in space, which I can't understand a single point to that, but even on a planet, I don't see the point. It can barely walk as it is, so it's definitely not for all terrain movement. Not to mention since it can fly, it really doesn't need all terrain movement.
...you do realise that it can't deploy its guns in Bomber mode, right? And that using the artillery railguns requires a stable and stationary platform, one you can only get with the legs?

The idea of the Koenig Monster is that it's a transformable version of the original Monster. Like all artillery units, the Destroid Monster carries heavy firepower, but it slow, and getting the firepower where you want it fast enough is a bitch. Hence, the Shuttle mode on the Koenig Monster, the idea being that it flies to the AO, deploys into GERWALK mode, blasts the crap out of everything, transforms back into Shuttle mode and flies home. As for why it has legs, the idea is to grant it limited mobility when in ground operations mode (actually, its mobility is slightly better than a standard towed artillery gun, though a self propelled gun probably has better mobility), as well as a lower center of gravity that brings better stability. Also note that when Kanaria fires her guns, the Koenig Monster leans back and a back stabiliser deploys, forming a tripod configuration in combo with the front legs - something very similar to a mortar tripod, incidentally.

As for why it needs to transform into GERWALK mode, I refer you to episode 25, where Kanaria does a 360 degree turn, blasting all targets she sees. You can't do those sorts of turns in Bomber mode.

Also, the other reason the Koenig Monster needs to transform because the missile launchers, arm guns, and railguns are not available in Bomber mode; Shuttle mode's only weapons are the nose autocannons. It has no other weapons in shuttle mode - you're confusing it with the VAB-2 and the VA-9 Invader (which was a bomber Valk based off the A-6 Intruder bomber in service with the US Navy).

You also forget that artillery always needs to reposition itself in small ways - the simplest being turning to a new heading to shoot at a new target. When you're sitting in one spot and need to turn 20 degrees to face a new target, it's very ridiculous to take off, fly around, and land again when you can just use the legs and turn.
__________________
~Speaking my mind, even when it costs me~
One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine.

I believe in miracles.


Last edited by Wild Goose; 2008-10-21 at 11:54.
Wild Goose is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 11:44   Link #1165
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
The VB-6 Koenig Monster has more artillary available in Destroid mode.





Quote:
Originally Posted by VB-6 Koenig Monster
Description and History

Destroids had long since been replaced by much more mobile and versatile variable vehicles in the 2050's. In order to field heavier vehicles on the modern battlefield, such weapons had to be as highly mobile as the enemy vehicles such units would face in combat. So it was that the destroid was reintroduced as a variable weapon and the VB-6 König became one of the most famous. Extensively reworking the original HWR-00 Monster Mk II Heavy Weight Robot, Shinnakasu/Northrom Grumman used modern materials and technologies to significantly reduce the weight of the Monster destroid to nearly a third of the original model. The new König Monster retained the powerful rail guns and large missile launchers of the original destroid but could also change configuration into a heavy Shuttle/Bomber mode capable of low mach speeds. The UN Forces were enthusiastic about the new variable weapon and the König proved to be one of the most mobile heavy artillery units ever fielded by the UNG military. For added defense, a 30 mm anti-aircraft gun was installed to help the VB-6 repel air attackers. In 2051, Captain Aegis Focker was assigned a VB-6 König Monster in an urban combat sortie against Vindirance terrorist forces.
Though the VB-6 isn't the first taking cue from a non-variable design. Variable Glaug
ReddyRedWolf is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 11:53   Link #1166
Daigo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
...you do realise that it can't deploy its guns in Bomber mode, right? And that using the artillery railguns requires a stable and stationary platform, one you can only get with the legs?

The idea of the Koenig Monster is that it's a transformable version of the original Monster. Like all artillery units, the Destroid Monster carries heavy firepower, but it slow, and getting the firepower where you want it fast enough is a bitch. Hence, the Shuttle mode on the Koenig Monster, the idea being that it flies to the AO, deploys into GERWALK mode, blasts the crap out of everything, transforms back into Shuttle mode and flies home. As for why it has legs, the idea is to grant it limited mobility when in ground operations mode (actually, its mobility is slightly better than a standard towed artillery gun, though a self propelled gun probably has better mobility), as well as a lower center of gravity that brings better stability. Also note that when Kanaria fires her guns, the Koenig Monster leans back and a back stabiliser deploys, forming a tripod configuration in combo with the front legs - something very similar to a mortar tripod, incidentally.

As for why it needs to transform into GERWALK mode, I refer you to episode 25, where Kanaria does a 360 degree turn, blasting all targets she sees. You can't do those sorts of turns in Bomber mode.

Also, the other reason the Koenig Monster needs to transform because the missile launchers, arm guns, and railguns are not available in Bomber mode; Shuttle mode's only weapons are the nose autocannons. It has no other weapons in shuttle mode - you're confusing it with the VAB-2 and the VA-9 Invader (which was a bomber Valk based off the A-6 Intruder bomber in service with the US Navy).
Why not? What's stopping it from deploying its railguns while in bomber mode? That's like saying a tank can't deploy its cannon unless it transforms into a mech.

Are we discussing this in context to the monster firing in space or on a planet? In space, it doesn't need to be braced. Actually the railguns would serve as an auxiliary propullsion device if necessary.

On land, legs don't provide a stable platform. Actually, they would just be more likely to break, or cause the mech to fall flat on its back. Tracks would be more logical if you wanted it to remain mobile.

I don't have a major problem with it being able to transform into a shuttle/bomber whatever. More mobility is good, I mentioned this already.

Again, tracks can provide MORE stability, and MORE mobility than those goofy legs can. No leg configuration has superior stability compared to just tracks. Tracks are also a simpler design, and easier to repair.

Ack no. You don't need to transform into gerwalk mode to spin in space. Macross gets this part horribly wrong. In space, you don't have to face the direction you are moving in. You can spin all day while moving in one direction if you wanted to. In fact, that's what planets do. Well they spin while moving in circles.

Yea, but why not? Why not have those weapons mounted while in shuttle/bomber mode? What's stopping it from happening other than a really bad design on the part of the engineers?
Daigo is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 12:16   Link #1167
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Macross VFX-2 Intro with VB-6 Monster (1:42)


As you can see it is one over sized tank.

Quote:
Ack no. You don't need to transform into gerwalk mode to spin in space. Macross gets this part horribly wrong. In space, you don't have to face the direction you are moving in. You can spin all day while moving in one direction if you wanted to. In fact, that's what planets do. Well they spin while moving in circles.
Vernier thrusters they do use them.

Spoiler for VF-19 Custom dodging with verniers:
ReddyRedWolf is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 12:51   Link #1168
Wild Goose
Truth Martyr
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigo View Post
Why not? What's stopping it from deploying its railguns while in bomber mode? That's like saying a tank can't deploy its cannon unless it transforms into a mech.
Ah, but the tank's gun is already exposed and ready to fire. The Koenig Monster's guns, meanwhile, are folded in while in Shuttle Mode. Canonically in all documentation and what we see onscreen, the Koenig Monster cannot deploy just the guns and fire them in shuttle mode. As for what's stopping it, the simplest explanation would be that the avionics don't allow it to do so. That isn't a far-fetched explanation either; 4th Generation fighters have software limiters in their avionics that prevent the pilots for conducting certain manuvers that could be catastrophic; Cold War era fighters, for example, allow the pilot to exceed 30 degrees of Angle of Attack, thereby causing the plane to stall out into a flat spin that is in most cases irrecoverable. The F-16 and contemporary fighters, meanwhile, have software that limits the aircraft from exceeding 30 degrees AOA no matter what the pilot does.

Quote:
Are we discussing this in context to the monster firing in space or on a planet? In space, it doesn't need to be braced. Actually the railguns would serve as an auxiliary propullsion device if necessary.
I'm discussing this in the planetary context. In Space, on the other hand, you'd be drifting away crazily each time you fired the railguns: note the amount of recoil generated - it actually creates a sizable dent in the Dulfim's hull when Kanaria fires. There is also a chance that the recoil thrust the railguns generate could be more than that of the stationkeeping verniers in Gerwalk mode. Such things aren't beyond plausibility; the GAU-8 on the A-10 was always fired when the plane was in a dive so as to reduce the risk of stalling due to strong recoil.

Quote:
On land, legs don't provide a stable platform. Actually, they would just be more likely to break, or cause the mech to fall flat on its back. Tracks would be more logical if you wanted it to remain mobile.
True, tracks would be more mobile, if you were thinking of it being a self-propelled gun (though the South Africans prefer wheels). On the other hand tracks don't really serve a point, because the Koenig Monster gets its mobility from shuttle mode. It's essentially towed artilley that flies to where it's supposed to deploy to.

Also, note that despite its superior mobility vs. towed artillery, there are still terrain types that tracked artillery cannot reach. This is a non issue for the Koenig Monster, which can just fly there and park.

Also, as we see in Episode 25, if the Koenig Monster falls, it falls forward, not back. Also, consider that the layout of the legs and the back stabiliser is very much in the same tripod configuration used by mortars and conventional towed artillery.

Quote:
I don't have a major problem with it being able to transform into a shuttle/bomber whatever. More mobility is good, I mentioned this already.
Neither do I, I'm just giving background on where the Koenig Monster is coming from.

Quote:
Again, tracks can provide MORE stability, and MORE mobility than those goofy legs can. No leg configuration has superior stability compared to just tracks. Tracks are also a simpler design, and easier to repair.
You're turning around in a circle, or moving short distances. How much mobility do you really need for such short distances? You're forgetting that when the long distance travel that favors tracks over legs comes into play, the Koenig Monster transforms and takes off and flies. In fact, note that for long distances tanks and other tracked vehicles are transported using vehicle transporters whenever possible, due to the fact that tracks do break down over long distances, and that they chew up roadways. For long distance, the hierarchy of traveling efficiency is wheeled > tracked > legged; for all terrain mobility is tracked > wheeled > legged; for turning around in a small circle and moving short distances, whatever differences in efficiency are so small so as be be of little practical difference.

Quote:
Ack no. You don't need to transform into gerwalk mode to spin in space. Macross gets this part horribly wrong. In space, you don't have to face the direction you are moving in. You can spin all day while moving in one direction if you wanted to. In fact, that's what planets do. Well they spin while moving in circles.
True. It would be more accurate to say that it's easier to do a 360 turn in GERWALK mode, due to the placement of stationkeeping thrusters.

Quote:
Yea, but why not? Why not have those weapons mounted while in shuttle/bomber mode? What's stopping it from happening other than a really bad design on the part of the engineers?
You do realise that having the railguns out in shuttle mode would interfere with the airflow, right? Let's not even get into stability; an aircraft is an inherently unstable firing platform. As for the weapons, they're all folded into the main body in shuttle mode. Deploying them in shuttle mode increases drag and breaks up the whole streamlined flow.

Nobody is saying that the Koenig Monster design is perfect. It is, however, the best compromise that the designers could come up with at the time it was fielded. All designs are ultimately compromises. It was designed and intended to give the original Destroid Monster a form that would allow more mobility and faster deployment of heavy artillery to the battlefield. GERWALK mode is the entire point of the Koenig Monster; Shuttle mode is the means to get there.
__________________
~Speaking my mind, even when it costs me~
One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine.

I believe in miracles.


Last edited by Wild Goose; 2008-10-21 at 13:04.
Wild Goose is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 13:32   Link #1169
SethEng
Eating your babies
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to SethEng
Let me link you to two items from the Macross Mecha Manual website that should clear up why the VB-6 can't fire it's rail guns while in shuttle mode. I suppose you could, in theory, but by the time you get the big guns out, you're mostly in GERWALK anyways.

http://www.new-un-spacy.com/macrossg...iordetails.gif

http://www.new-un-spacy.com/macrossg...formation1.gif

Amusingly, the parts of the guns that point backward can be used to generate more thrust in shuttle mode, but to swing them forward and fire would not be good in space unless you wanted to decrease your forward thrust. Macross at least pays lipservice to realistic physics and screwing with your forward velocity in the middle of space combat is a bad thing.
SethEng is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 14:44   Link #1170
March
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Is anyone else besides me failing to see any real discussion of Macross Mecha, Weapons and Technology in these latest points? Everything is being discussed "out of context" with points like "real lasers don't work like lasers in Macross, therefore Macross future warfare is wrong". This latest one is "transforming mecha don't make sense, so what's the point of the VB-6 Konig?". Shouldn't these "revelations" that Macross lasers and Macross mecha aren't real already be apparent?

Take this for example:
Quote:
On land, legs don't provide a stable platform. Actually, they would just be more likely to break, or cause the mech to fall flat on its back. Tracks would be more logical if you wanted it to remain mobile.
This isn't discussing Macross technology, it's discussing why we use tracks in the real world and why no one would build a legged machine; because legs would break or cause the mecha to fall flat on its back. And how would we know that? Because that's what happens in the real world. Why doesn't it relate to Macross? Because Macross has so obviously built reliable, practical legs that don't break or cause the mecha to fall flat on it's back. And how would we know that? Because that's what happens in the Macross world.

I'd like to see discussion of Macross Mecha, Weapons and Technology from the basic assumption that it's practical and has a valid purpose. It's then our jobs as the audience to "imagine" why it works. If we're not suspending our disbelief and instead benchmarking Macross by how things work in the "REAL WORLD", where then is the discussion of "Macross Mecha, Weapons and Technology" in the recent pages of this thread?

From what I can tell these latest discussions are really just a way of saying the fictional science of Macross doesn't make sense/doesn't work. We might as well be criticising Star Wars for lightsabers and Star Trek for transporters for all the good it does.
March is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 15:14   Link #1171
Urei
Star Designer
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Europe
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by March View Post
This isn't discussing Macross technology, it's discussing why we use tracks in the real world and why no one would build a legged machine; because legs would break or cause the mecha to fall flat on its back. And how would we know that? Because that's what happens in the real world. Why doesn't it relate to Macross? Because Macross has so obviously built reliable, practical legs that don't break or cause the mecha to fall flat on it's back. And how would we know that? Because that's what happens in the Macross world.
QFT,

As I said a whole lot posts back when I still had the patience to reply to those senseless arguments, thinking using 'possible in the current world' assumptions is the WORST thing you can do as it's practically a pure error at it's core. Get rid of this mind set and then post your questions.

EDIT.

A question about VF-25F and S variation. Considering all the previous VF designs and the F/S versions the most obvious feature that is changed in the S version is the amount of the Head Laser turrets as well as weight and engine output. S Variations are commander type and thus provide a better performance to the F version. Is there any solid info on the specs of VF-25S ? We know that it has 4 x fixed Mauler RÖV-217C coaxial 12.7mm beam guns while F has 2. Is there anything more?
__________________

AD 2314 Mobile Suit Gundam 00
~A wakening of the Trailblazer~


Last edited by Urei; 2008-10-21 at 15:28.
Urei is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 18:28   Link #1172
Daigo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
<reudndant>

Quote:
Ah, but the tank's gun is already exposed and ready to fire. The Koenig Monster's guns, meanwhile, are folded in while in Shuttle Mode.
So what's stopping it from deploying its railguns later? It can transform into a mech, so I don't see why not.

Quote:
I'm discussing this in the planetary context. In Space, on the other hand, you'd be drifting away crazily each time you fired the railguns: note the amount of recoil generated - it actually creates a sizable dent in the Dulfim's hull when Kanaria fires. There is also a chance that the recoil thrust the railguns generate could be more than that of the stationkeeping verniers in Gerwalk mode. Such things aren't beyond plausibility; the GAU-8 on the A-10 was always fired when the plane was in a dive so as to reduce the risk of stalling due to strong recoil.
Like I said, in space it could be used as an auxiliary propullsion system, or its thrusters would counteract the recoil force. It can't stall in space. Honestly, if it needs to be braced against a more massive ship to fire in space, then wouldn't it make more sense to just build a railgun turrent on the ship in the first place? It seems illogical to make a machine that needs to brace against another ship in order to fire every time. But if we are discussing within a planet, then this stuff is mostly moot.

Quote:
True, tracks would be more mobile, if you were thinking of it being a self-propelled gun (though the South Africans prefer wheels). On the other hand tracks don't really serve a point, because the Koenig Monster gets its mobility from shuttle mode. It's essentially towed artilley that flies to where it's supposed to deploy to.

Also, note that despite its superior mobility vs. towed artillery, there are still terrain types that tracked artillery cannot reach. This is a non issue for the Koenig Monster, which can just fly there and park.
Yea, but I'm asking what's the point of the legs then? Ok if mobility isn't important at all, why not just use fixed mounts to hold the machine in place like traditional artillery? Why use legs at all? They are just more complex, harder to repair, and prone to failure. I just assumed that you would argue they provide some mobility on the ground, in which case, tracks would be preferred. In other words, it could transform from a shuttle/bomber into an artillery machine with tracks (similar to self propelled artillery).

Quote:
You're turning around in a circle, or moving short distances. How much mobility do you really need for such short distances? You're forgetting that when the long distance travel that favors tracks over legs comes into play, the Koenig Monster transforms and takes off and flies. In fact, note that for long distances tanks and other tracked vehicles are transported using vehicle transporters whenever possible, due to the fact that tracks do break down over long distances, and that they chew up roadways. For long distance, the hierarchy of traveling efficiency is wheeled > tracked > legged; for all terrain mobility is tracked > wheeled > legged; for turning around in a small circle and moving short distances, whatever differences in efficiency are so small so as be be of little practical difference.
See above. Basically I'm asking why it has legs at all then.

Quote:
True. It would be more accurate to say that it's easier to do a 360 turn in GERWALK mode, due to the placement of stationkeeping thrusters.
I don't really see how. It just needs either lateral/ventral thrusters or a flywheel device of some kind.

Quote:
You do realise that having the railguns out in shuttle mode would interfere with the airflow, right?
In an atomosphere? Sure. In space? No. And for atmosphere, there's nothing stopping it from merely deploying tracks and the railguns when it lands. No need for legs.

Quote:
GERWALK mode is the entire point of the Koenig Monster; Shuttle mode is the means to get there.
But what is the point of those legs? You gotta somehow argue why they are better over either stationary mounts, or tracks.

Last edited by monir; 2008-10-21 at 19:59.
Daigo is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 19:05   Link #1173
Ithekro
Space Battleship
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 36
Maybe the feet of the legs can grip the surface better than treds for when it is firing. Or if not, then so it can grip onto a ships hull in zero gravity. You can't do that with a tred. Remember it was designed based on a walking mech that didn't have a shuttle mode or any kind of transformation ability. It was not intended to move very far or very fast. But it does seem to be intended to provide mobile weapons coverage in the orginal Macross, as these were used on deck and inside the Assault carrier arm for the Macross' punch-like attack (to deliver heavy ordinance to an enemy ship's interior).

The shuttle mode makes the vessel more useful as it can now be used as part of a fleet's force projection group when needed, or for rapid redeployment to vessels in the fleet that need heavy firepower (civilian ships).

As for its battleroid mode....I have no idea really. Its GERWALK mode was the original standard mode and the shuttle gives it superior self deployment capability. I guess the battleroid mode is for its own personal self defense? Instead of being ripped up at close range where it's massive guns are useless (because it would take itself out in the blast), and it can't outrun whatever is attacking in shuttle mode, them it would have to have a means of defending itself. Fists and/or a mech sized rifle would do I suppose to get it to the standards of the various variable fighters.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is online now  
Old 2008-10-21, 19:34   Link #1174
Tri-ring
The Censor Bat
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Land of the rising sun
Firing the railgun while in shuttle mode has a nagging problem of EMP that may render flight, navigation computers as well as the engine to shut down needing to reinitialize the system again. Not very good in a combat situation.
Especially in flight mode where there will be no system to compensate recoil.
Tri-ring is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 19:36   Link #1175
Evangelion Xgouki
NERV Personnel
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tokyo 3, Japan
Age: 28
Send a message via AIM to Evangelion Xgouki Send a message via MSN to Evangelion Xgouki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Maybe the feet of the legs can grip the surface better than treds for when it is firing. Or if not, then so it can grip onto a ships hull in zero gravity. You can't do that with a tred. Remember it was designed based on a walking mech that didn't have a shuttle mode or any kind of transformation ability.
The original Monsters were designed to be "land battleships" to provide long-range heavy fire support. The one we see in Macross Frontier, the VB-6, takes the basic concept and applies it to space combat. Remember, the SMS is a space escort service. Their main area of operation is space, not terrestrial. They can operate in atmosphere but the bulk of their work is in space. Treads and wheels would not be very effective in space other than used for landing (which Valkyries and the VB-6 do have). The feet of the VB-6 in GERWALK mode also double as a clamping apparatus so it can mount itself before firing to absorb the recoil and not get thrown back into a possible uncontrolled spin (which would make it vulnerable to enemy as well as friendly fire).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
It was not intended to move very far or very fast.
The Shuttle mode was primary designed as a means of self-transportation to get it to the battlefield and back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
But it does seem to be intended to provide mobile weapons coverage in the orginal Macross, as these were used on deck and inside the Assault carrier arm for the Macross' punch-like attack (to deliver heavy ordinance to an enemy ship's interior).
Well, the original Destroids were designed for ground assault and support. They weren't designed with the Macross Attack in mind since that battle tactic was 'developed' after the Destroids were deployed onto the SDF-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
As for its battleroid mode....I have no idea really. Its GERWALK mode was the original standard mode and the shuttle gives it superior self deployment capability. I guess the battleroid mode is for its own personal self defense? Instead of being ripped up at close range where it's massive guns are useless (because it would take itself out in the blast), and it can't outrun whatever is attacking in shuttle mode, them it would have to have a means of defending itself. Fists and/or a mech sized rifle would do I suppose to get it to the standards of the various variable fighters.
Pretty much. The original Monsters had no alternative forms or means to get to the battlefield other than a slow and dangerous walk or from transport vehicles. The Battloid mode of the VB-6 is primarily for self-defense in close-range combat. Since it only really has long-range weapons in GERWALK mode with limited mobility except the one 30 mm Vulcan small-bore anti-aircaft gun if an enemy fighter can get in close the VB-6 is fairly vulnerable. In addition it gains added mobility in Battloid mode like its smaller Valkyrie cousins. But it's still only really used in emergency cases since its roll is primarily long-range heavy artillery support.
__________________

Last edited by monir; 2008-10-21 at 20:01. Reason: Portion of the post no longer needed!
Evangelion Xgouki is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 19:45   Link #1176
Daigo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
Firing the railgun while in shuttle mode has a nagging problem of EMP that may render flight, navigation computers as well as the engine to shut down needing to reinitialize the system again. Not very good in a combat situation.
Especially in flight mode where there will be no system to compensate recoil.
By that logic, railguns can't be used on anything. But yet, the Navy doesn't seem to have a problem developing them for their warships.

Quote:
Maybe the feet of the legs can grip the surface better than treds for when it is firing.
How does that work? Why would feet on the legs have a better grip than treads or some other less complicated device?

Last edited by monir; 2008-10-22 at 18:12.
Daigo is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 19:50   Link #1177
Evangelion Xgouki
NERV Personnel
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tokyo 3, Japan
Age: 28
Send a message via AIM to Evangelion Xgouki Send a message via MSN to Evangelion Xgouki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigo View Post
How does that work? Why would feet on the legs have a better grip than treads or some other less complicated device?
Treads and wheels have their advantages in terrestrial theaters. In space they would serve little purpose in combat. In the VB-6's case, the feet had a means to impale sections into a surface to keep itself grounded while it fired and absorb the massive recoil.
__________________
Evangelion Xgouki is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 19:55   Link #1178
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Daigo you don't own the thread so you don't have a right to complain when it is on-topic. Unless you want to be reported for thread spamming again.

The reason you switched back to Macross discussion is because you'be been taking the heat from everyone around here. You don't like also being rebutted on your arguments even if others are more knowledgeble than you in physics and history. Having better sounding arguments than you and disproving your statements. That is why you keep on repeating yourself even if it was disproven.

March is right keep this thread a Macross discussion. Read the title and the rules.

Anything else is considered spamming.

Last edited by monir; 2008-10-21 at 20:04. Reason: quote removed for consistency's sake
ReddyRedWolf is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 20:00   Link #1179
Tri-ring
The Censor Bat
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Land of the rising sun
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigo View Post
By that logic, railguns can't be used on anything. But yet, the Navy doesn't seem to have a problem developing them for their warships.
Well, since we still have not a rail gun deployed that is still up for grabs.
One more thing warship that will be equiped with rail guns will have a larger frame, mass made from highly conductive material(steel) not some kind of titanium alloy and, floating on sea(which acts as an Earthing system) not in mid air.

Frankly speaking you are trying to mix apples with oranges.
When you have a working rail gun deployed on a B1 bomber call me.
Tri-ring is offline  
Old 2008-10-21, 20:13   Link #1180
monir
cho~ kakkoii
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
Question to Daigo: Are you discussing Macross technology as this thread intended to do?

I also have an observation to make to the general. If a post isn't partaking to the intended discussion of a thread-topic, then instead of making it an issue, one can always go around such post. If one is going to entertain a post that is considered off-topic by replying to it, then there shouldn't be any complaints later on, now should there? Discussing a topic shouldn't be that difficult to do just because one poster is going off-topic. If I have something to contribute to the topic at hand, then I can always do so. An off-topic isn't going to hinder my intention. Hopefully, I'm making sense!
__________________
Eat and sleep! And Solace. Sig by RRW.
Space Brothers Executive member of the ASS. Ready to flee at the first sign of trouble.
monir is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.