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Old 2008-09-30, 12:15   Link #81
marvelB
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Yeah, I've usually seen Haki translated as "ambition" or "spirit", myself. It wasn't until recently (when we see Rayleigh using it) that most people just called it Haki, since it doesn't have a really clear translation (though I suppose "spirit" would be the best term to use, considering how the power works...).
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Old 2008-10-13, 18:12   Link #82
holypanl
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Awww man...We need a new hot topic...

Like: er..

Shanks Vs Whitebeard: Which crew would win!! That would be a really hot topic!!
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Old 2008-10-15, 13:56   Link #83
Captain Roronoa Zoro
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idk if som1 said this but how would haki work on aokiji if he is already hard because doesnt haki just harden things so aokiji would just freeze them like he did luffy soooo idont think haki wuld work on him
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Old 2008-10-15, 14:19   Link #84
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idk if som1 said this but how would haki work on aokiji if he is already hard because doesnt haki just harden things so aokiji would just freeze them like he did luffy soooo idont think haki wuld work on him
That's a very wrong impression of Haki you have there.

I'll explain again. Haki very generally means an aura of intimidation or fear or domination over others.

When one is fearsome, dangerous or intimidating enough it will cause fear and intimdation in his opponent. Making his opponent perform less than he usually does. Someone like Rayleigh with a deadly reputation as first mate of Gol D Roger, is intimidating enough to even cause Kizaru to perform badly. Perhaps the act of logias transforming into their element upon contact is actually a voluntary action that must be activated precisely. And because its precise, Kizaru in his shaken state fighting Rayleigh doesn't allow him to perform such an action.

When you are in fear, your judgement and accuracy drops, you become less effective than normal. If you're even more in fear, you may even pass out from it, like those on White Beard's ship who saw Shanks and also those in the Auction who Rayleigh knocked out.

If someone is such a beast, to even make Aokiji lose his cool, he may actually get beaten up.
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Old 2008-10-15, 18:16   Link #85
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If Luffy ever makes peace with the Kuja pirates (Which I think he will) I think they'll give him some pointers on how to use it, seeing as most crew members learned it.
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Old 2008-10-15, 19:51   Link #86
Captain Roronoa Zoro
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how would fear and intimidation explain how he can cut kizaru? He may be scared but do to his devil fruit he can still allow things to just go right through him unless its a mental thing of wether or not u want something to pass right through u then ur mental stability wuld become a factor but, if it just goes through u w/o u haveing to think about it then however ur feeling wouldnt matter.
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Old 2008-10-15, 21:12   Link #87
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Originally Posted by Captain Roronoa Zoro View Post
how would fear and intimidation explain how he can cut kizaru? He may be scared but do to his devil fruit he can still allow things to just go right through him unless its a mental thing of wether or not u want something to pass right through u then ur mental stability wuld become a factor but, if it just goes through u w/o u haveing to think about it then however ur feeling wouldnt matter.
If you watch just about any shounen anime and think of Haki as something akin to "killing intent" or "pressure," it makes sense in that regard.

I personally feel Haki is a manifestation of Will and Determination, to the point where you can physically awe those around you. Rayleign was able to fend off Kizaru(stil love calling him "Borsalino") because he had the greater Will.

Still, it does make One Piece a bit of a conformist to all these other "power-up" shounen titles, but maybe Oda will astound us with something out of left field. He's never failed us before...

Last edited by BlackNhite; 2008-10-16 at 21:41.
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Old 2008-10-16, 18:07   Link #88
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Oda knows how to take Shounen, and evolve it, while at the same time, keeping it in spec and up to tradition.

Although about Haki: I don't quite see Kizaru being intimidated by Rayleigh so much so that he can't think straight enough to turn into his element. No: I believe Haki, in all its forms uses the Breath of All Things.

Kizaru was simply attacking the Breath of Light...???

That's how I see it. So he synchronised his will to fight with the breath of Light (??) and then concentrated all of it onto attacking Kizaru. I try to see it all in the light of Zoro's experience while fighting against Das Bones. (Mr 1).

Synchronising your spirit and will with a particualr thing you can't normally attack/cut, and then using the now focused, and targeted will, to attack the target.
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Old 2008-10-22, 11:16   Link #89
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Y'know, back in the chapter 518 thread, I said I wasn't too certain about Rokushiki being a series of Haki techniques, but after rereading Enies Lobby, I am actually rather curious about one particular attack.... Lucci's Roku Ougan.



According to Lucci, it's a technique that only those who've completely mastered Rokushiki can learn. Also note that the attack seemed to affect Luffy internally (he says it felt like being hit with an Impact Dial, but much stronger... which would mean it felt like being hit with a Reject Dial). So maybe Roku Ougan is a technique that takes full advantage of a person's Haki (or in Lucci's case, Sakki)? Also note that more recently, we're introduced to Sentoumaru, who also uses some sort of martial arts that actually caused Luffy physical harm (and he even goes as far as to say that he wasn't a DF user). So maybe this means that the strongest forms of martial arts used in this series use Haki to strike opponents internally, which I'd think would be much more damaging than causing harm to the flesh alone.....
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Old 2008-10-22, 17:02   Link #90
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Y'know, back in the chapter 518 thread, I said I wasn't too certain about Rokushiki being a series of Haki techniques, but after rereading Enies Lobby, I am actually rather curious about one particular attack.... Lucci's Roku Ougan.



According to Lucci, it's a technique that only those who've completely mastered Rokushiki can learn. Also note that the attack seemed to affect Luffy internally (he says it felt like being hit with an Impact Dial, but much stronger... which would mean it felt like being hit with a Reject Dial). So maybe Roku Ougan is a technique that takes full advantage of a person's Haki (or in Lucci's case, Sakki)? Also note that more recently, we're introduced to Sentoumaru, who also uses some sort of martial arts that actually caused Luffy physical harm (and he even goes as far as to say that he wasn't a DF user). So maybe this means that the strongest forms of martial arts used in this series use Haki to strike opponents internally, which I'd think would be much more damaging than causing harm to the flesh alone.....
I got the impresion that Sentoumaru did used Haki,I think we should consider that Mihawk and Garp could be Haki users too...
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Old 2008-10-22, 19:50   Link #91
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Well, at this point of the story, pretty much everyone being introduced is someone who's extremely powerful. And these people are so powerful because they have extremely strong wills, be it determination for goals, for duty or evil deeds.

From this point onwards into the New World, its basically a contest of wills for Luffy and his opponents. Another words Haki being the key to defeating his opponents.

And yes, it seems Oda really has incoporated Haki into One Piece right from the start. If Shanks demonstrated it on the Sea King so early, its safe to say stuff like Mantra and Rokuougan is related to Haki.
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Old 2008-10-24, 11:18   Link #92
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Chapter 519 info

Recent chapter revealed lot of new and intresting info of Haki.

It seems there is diffrent types of Haki specializations for diffrent persons along with normal haki.

Luffy and Boa Hancock seem to have 'Haoushoku Haki' , a Kings Haki... When its used while giving an order it forces listener to obey. A very powerful ability for leaders similar to Code geass Lelouch power.

Its possible that Shanks also has Haoushoku Haki because in start of series he ordered that Sea monster to back off when he saved young luffy, although Shanks natural Haki can be so strong that it gives command over much weaker beings.

What we know from raw haki:

It can be used to enchant attacks or projectiles to increase its power greatly.

It can nullify partially Devil fruit powers, Rayleighs slashes hurted Kizaru and Marigolds and Garps punches hurted Luffy even that he is rubber man.

High raw amount of Haki can knock of weaker people as shown by Rayleigh and Shanks.

Not sure can you use raw haki to command people/animals or does Shanks has Kings Haki also.
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Old 2008-10-24, 17:02   Link #93
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haki is probably determined by their spirit

and now we know that luffy possesses it which is no surprised considering his spirit and desire as a pirate

and yeah it doesn't "knock" everyone out and that won't work on people whose strength is around your level but it will work on the much weaker. And now its explained that it does require control and not even Boa can fully control it yet. And haki can be directed and targeted towards certain individuals instead of hitting everyone around you.
It looks like it DOES have the ability to fight against logia type and other devil fruit users. It doesn't fully nullify their powers but it does help lower it a notch so they aren't freaking indestructible so the fights more fair.
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Old 2008-10-24, 17:32   Link #94
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so haki seems to have following effects (correct me if im wrong):

-able to knock out people or at least to disturb ones consciousness determined by strength
-able to neutralize devil fruits powers to some point
-able to strengthen ones attacks
-gives you the ability to read the minds of others (similar to enel)

what i find so interesting about haki is that it explains all the strength differences between the characters which were left unclear in the past... assuming all major strong characters have mastered haki to some degree
for example it would explain why mihawk was so much stronger than zorro when they first met. he enhanced his swordstrikes with haki to the point where he was easily able to cut don kriegs giant ship in half and was able to foresee zorros attacks while they fought.
or when dragon met smoker: even thought smoker was a logia type devil fruit user, which was at that time thought to make him invulnerable and very strong, smoker didnt raise a finger against dragon and did as he commanded. when i first saw this i found it really weird, but with haki dragon would have kicked smokers ass and the whole thing makes finally sense
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Old 2008-10-25, 02:10   Link #95
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Haki and the breath

hello people am new here... but all the same as u have seen in the chapter 519 haki is manifestation of will power and rage.. when luffy was angry about the fact that the sisters were gonna break margaret.. [plus am pretty sure he was mighty angry for all the shit happening with the women worshipping hancock] he let out his anger/spirit/haki which completely affected the weaklings in the crowd. i think they called it the "haoushoku haki" aka "the king's disposition" which just tells us how wonderful the D blood truly is!

i dont know if zoro's "breath of all things" is "haki" but i do know its the key to defeating logia users! imagine if someone with luffy's physical strength attains the breath of all things. he can "hear" the ability!! for example zoro heard the breath of steel and cut it! now imagine luffy hearing the breath of icE! he can kick aokiji's ass! its similar to how reyliegh cut kizaru's face with his blade... the pirate king with no fruit ability stood apart from the rest of them! its only possible if he could attack the logia users and i believe its by hearing the breath of all things....
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Old 2008-10-25, 07:47   Link #96
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First C.A. thank you for being here and explaining details regarding Haki in a nice way for unfamilier user's, it makes the work for people like me with distinct theories much easier since it saves us from brining up alot of the same as basis for our arguments and theories. So hopefully this theory will bring some light into how Haki is capable of Harming Devil Fruit user's, Logia's espesialy.


First a few facts about Logia User's:
Logia user's are basicly Devil Fruit user's with the ability of an Element, while not all are standard elements like Smoke and Sand aint standards elements in the world they have however the same properties as elements like Fire and Thunder etc, a Logia user's before Haki was properly introduced was only weak against its Natural Enemies, for instance shown in Enel with Luffy being imune and able to nutrelise Enel's thunder and hitting him directly. However the fact that Luffy could hit him proves a few more things about Logia user's. Even in their elemental form their stil "connected" to all parts of their body. Which means that when they go "Elemental" like for instance Crocodile when he speaks and luffy hits him to just hit the sand, its stil something that connects the "missing parts" to the main body. So when Luffy hit into the "thunder" or "Enel" wanted to avoid Luffy's punched by going elemental he was unable because Luffy's rubber was able to do a direct connection to the element. Its this prinsiple i will now build on further.


Part of this theory started when I began to wonder, why aint Logia user's supreme ? Intil now there hasent really been shown any true big exploitable weakness in Logia user's so why for instance wherent the Marine's or World Goverment heavily attacked by combined Logia user's, its already shown that there are a few of these outside of the Marines, and with Ace being fire one of the Admirals (Ice) already being at a dinstinct disadvantage. And over time why dident this happend ? Well the answer is that there are things that Negates or is capable of Hurting them in their element form. Before Seastones where known, but why where Sea Stones effective ? because they emited the same type of energy as the sea, and this canceled out the Devil Fruits power. The keyword here is Energy. An element is also a form for Energy. And that, is also what Haki is.


Haki:
Haki is as explained by C.A. a manifistation of ones will or Spirit, Spirit Power in tones of games, Flames in Hitman Reborn, Nen in Hunter x Hunter, Chackra in Naruto etc are all based around the same prinsiples or simular concepts but used differently to give them a uniq feel or use in their respective creations. However it doesent change the fact in all the key common element is that its a form for power or energy. And if you clash two Energies against each other, you cause a reaction, if one energy is vastly superior it will "blow away the other" as if two people with bats aim to strike at the same time at each other's bats, the stronger one will dominate the other because he will produce more energy into the swing. So when attacks with Haki meets up against a Logia user's in their elemental form (basicly their hit imunutity) it creates a clash of energies, its not the "attack itself" that hurts the Logia user, but the Haki in the attack. So its quite different from Black Beards fruit that "negates" the ability much like seastones. Haki however creates "sparks or clashes" of energy. And this again harms the Logia user because its the Logia user's body that becommes the "focus point" for the energy clash.

This theory holds alot of waight based on the most recent chapter by this posts creation (Chapter 519) where the two younger Boa sister's is capable of inflicting Physical/Blunt attacks that directly harms Luffy's rubber body. This is because these attacks that does this dammage is imbued with Haki, this means that the Haki in the attacks directly harms the target even if a fruit power would naturaly make the person imune to it. Raighlith's fight against the Admiral on the Archipello also indicates or more acuraly proves that Haki based attacks is capable of clashing with Logia user's. But its not like Haki removes the fruit abilities, it just allows a method of harming the Logia user. But attacks with Haki also becommes naturaly stronger against Non Logia oponents, the Arrows fired by the Kuja proves this fact as they becomme much stronger and Margaret also explains that its only natural for attacks imbued with Haki. If we piece together these informations that has been presented to us so far regarding Haki, we get the general direction on how and why Logia user's aint the "Most Dominate" while they have the strongest powerups in their fruits, they have a natural enemie on the "higher stages" that limits their value, its like Logia instantly boosts you from level 1 to 70, but with stil alot of levels 70+ around and that Logia fruits are so rare since there is a more distinct limit to amount of Elements it creates the reason why Logia user's arent the "strongest around", that their insanly strong naturaly is a given. But it adds a enemie to Logia user's alongside their Natural Enemies/Oposiing Elements or Seastones that is harder to avoid in battle.


And other reason why Haki can harm Logia "Its a plot device needed at this point of time due to the Straw Hats distinct inability to deal with a now growing range of Logia user's around them. 2 Admirals and 1 Commander with Logia has already gone up against them which they are unable to fight. There is also Black Beard while he takes physical dammage he can negate other fruits so a other form for attack that doesent rely on fruits is needed here. And then we have seen Crockodile, Enel and Ace as 3 other Logia user's. And there are stil a few posibilities left for Logia types they can encounter in the New World, Haki presents the crew with a Method of fighting these enemies thats sure to come and acting as the natural buffer, and its not sudden either just well hidden in the manga so far. This indicates its something planed from the start to act as a natural powerup at the very least for Luffy, but also likly some more of his crew.
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Old 2008-10-25, 09:38   Link #97
KennethJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sordes Pilosus View Post

Haki:
Haki is as explained by C.A. a manifistation of ones will or Spirit, Spirit Power in tones of games, Flames in Hitman Reborn, Nen in Hunter x Hunter, Chackra in Naruto etc are all based around the same prinsiples or simular concepts but used differently to give them a uniq feel or use in their respective creations. However it doesent change the fact in all the key common element is that its a form for power or energy. And if you clash two Energies against each other, you cause a reaction, if one energy is vastly superior it will "blow away the other" as if two people with bats aim to strike at the same time at each other's bats, the stronger one will dominate the other because he will produce more energy into the swing. So when attacks with Haki meets up against a Logia user's in their elemental form (basicly their hit imunutity) it creates a clash of energies, its not the "attack itself" that hurts the Logia user, but the Haki in the attack. So its quite different from Black Beards fruit that "negates" the ability much like seastones. Haki however creates "sparks or clashes" of energy. And this again harms the Logia user because its the Logia user's body that becommes the "focus point" for the energy clash.
Its not completely accurate to compare haki to those. The general meaning, yes, that's what it basically is. While haki does determines ones strength in all of those it plays a much bigger role in One Piece. Closest comparison is probably spirit power from Bleach, where they both determine strength but they also have the ability to disable weaker opponents. One Piece is more unique due to the fact that it is also their spirit (will and desire) and the significance is much greater due to the fact of it's rareness and difference it makes in combat.

Nice breakdown though :>
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Old 2008-10-25, 14:17   Link #98
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One Piece is more unique due to the fact that it is also their spirit (will and desire) and the significance is much greater due to the fact of it's rareness and difference it makes in combat.:>
I doubt Haki is as "rare" as you put it, Oda's been spmming us with possible and proven Haki users ever since he hit his "half-way" point so I'm willing to bet that Haki users are as common in the New World as Devil Fruit users were said to be common in the Grand Line.

The only rare thing I can discern about Haki is what type as it seems the power manifests in various ways. Luffy's "King's Spirit" for example...
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Old 2008-10-25, 19:29   Link #99
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But DF users aren't really common on the Grand Line... the people just aren't surprised very much to see them, but considering, that they most likely originate in the Grand Line, this is nothing unexpected. Besides: Wasn't it said, that DFs are limited in number? I think I remember something like this.


Yep, Oda addresses the number of Devil Fruits in the volume 4 SBS (the very volume where the SBS started!):



Quote:
D: About how many are there in the "Devil Fruit Series", and what kind of fruits will turn up?

O: For what kinds, I'll keep it a secret because I want you to see how they'll show up in the story. But as for how many, according to the rumors I've heard, there are more than 100 of them. And that a lot of the possessors of the Devil Fruit powers are wriggling about You-Know-Where.


Obviously, "You-Know-Where" is referring to the Grand Line, since the story still took place in East Blue at the time. But otherwise yeah, Devil Fruits are rare. My guess is that we'll find out the exact number of fruits after Vegapunk is introduced....
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Old 2008-10-26, 09:54   Link #100
BlackNhite
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But DF users aren't really common on the Grand Line... the people just aren't surprised very much to see them, but considering, that they most likely originate in the Grand Line, this is nothing unexpected. Besides: Wasn't it said, that DFs are limited in number? I think I remember something like this.
Comparing the amount of Devil Fruit users we've seen in East Blue with those in the Grand Line, the difference is phenominal. Granted, we didn't see all of East Blue; but the fact that, as you stated, people aren't as shocked to see them is most likely due to exposure as opposed to the often shocked expressions worn by those in East Blue.

Yes Devil Fruits are limited in number because each fruit blooms only once in a human generation (at least that's what I believe was said at some point). This way, no two individuals will have the same Devil Fruit. But there are still a startling amount of Devil Fruits and they seem to get very specific in terms of type, just look at the Zoan models.

Really though, I'm just making this argument as a way on un-deifying "Haki," it just feels like people are making too big a deal out of it. Much the same way Luffy's Gomu Gomu powers became common-place in the Grand Line, "Haki" seems directed towards being quite the normal occurance in the "New World" (an entire island society seems at least relatively versed in it's usage).

To me, Haki has become sort of like a dormant power, an "inner devil fruit"; I feel it's something everyone has potential to unlock, but not all achieve and even then it manifests itself in various ways. It's like a DF ability that requires actual work to get.

Last edited by BlackNhite; 2008-10-27 at 09:13.
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