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Old 2008-10-21, 05:38   Link #121
houkoholic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
She gave Ami a light slap. I didn't think it was that out of line or upsetting as she was being pretty rude.
I wouldn't call it a "light slap" when the novel described Ami's face as being tinted "bright red". Sure Ami stepped out of line, but it's not like Taiga doesn't have a sharp tongue either, so the fact that Taiga was the first to resort to physical violence says a lot about her character.

Quote:
Taiga is not that physical violent. Snap out of it. Ask any other novel reader and he/she will tell - she can get physical, no one doubts that but she isnt as physical really.
Reviewing the novels again I'm noticing that Taiga gets progressively physically abusive in the later novels towards Ryuji. In volume 3 Taiga kicked Ryuji in the rear for waking her up late due to circumstances (page 46 if anyone even wants to confirm themselves as Ryuji said "ケツを蹴るな!" - lit "don't kick my butt!)), there were scenes of her body-slam and choking/hanging off Ryuji's neck in volume 5 (page 26) just as I'm reading it now - the usual slapstick. It's probably a matter of editors stepping in to add more hook to catering to the core group, the anime in this sense is just reconning the later bits and making the character personality more consistent instead of dailing it up as the plot progresses.

Final note to Darknemo2000 again - sorry but I AM a novel reader, and thus far it seems that I'm the only one in this thread that is actually WAY ahead of the English translations (which is what? not even at the end of volume 2? - whereas I'm on 5 already). Seriously anyone who's only following the English translation does not have enough info to make claims to how JC Staff "screwed it". So who are these people that support these claims that Taiga are not physically violent and how far have they read? And if you do, please bring up facts to support or rufte points like I do instead of making general blanket statements, thanks.
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Last edited by houkoholic; 2008-10-21 at 06:01.
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Old 2008-10-21, 08:07   Link #122
Darknemo2000
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Actually I am on volume 5 as well. Will start volume 6 soon... Don't have much time because I am also ZnT novel translator on B-T.

No one said that Taiga is totally non-violent but her most agressiveness come from words rather than actions, and the instances you mentioned for mee seem lighter than what she did to Ryuuji in the anime (kicking in the guts, trying to stab his eyes etc). Besides we are talking about many instances from many scenes that do not come one after another in anime 3rd episode they just come pouring down on you, making her look more bitchy (more physically violent) than in novels or manga.

PS. B-T novel translations are halfway through volume 4 at this moment (though volume 3 is still not fully finished but two translators working), so even english only readers are not that far behind you, you know.
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Old 2008-10-21, 08:43   Link #123
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Personally I was more bothered by...

Spoiler:
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Old 2008-10-21, 08:51   Link #124
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Then again, they wouldn't have done it if Ami hadn't been a bitch to Taiga. Or left herself vulnerable by boasting about her diet.
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Old 2008-10-21, 09:03   Link #125
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Spoiler for Yes:
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Old 2008-10-22, 01:09   Link #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
No one said that Taiga is totally non-violent but her most agressiveness come from words rather than actions, and the instances you mentioned for mee seem lighter than what she did to Ryuuji in the anime (kicking in the guts, trying to stab his eyes etc).
Again, it just seems to me that you're moving the goal post when it is convient to you. First you said she is not that abusive, then I present cases, and then you go it's not as bad as in the anime because the spots are different etc. Can we actually stick with some actual criteria?

Quote:
Besides we are talking about many instances from many scenes that do not come one after another in anime 3rd episode they just come pouring down on you, making her look more bitchy (more physically violent) than in novels or manga.
But I've already argued that a) she was already bitchy in the novel anyway, which a handful of people just seem to be denying (including you), and b) being more physical does not make her more bitchy than the novle because her verbal insults *is* a form of bitchiness itself. In which your answer was that words aren't as bad as physical wounds - but that's not actually an answer to the point, because which is worse is subjective, some would argue that mental trauma is worse than physical wounds (a lowered self-esteem takes years to cure, whereas physical wounds heals in weeks) and vice versa, but it doesn't change anything about Taiga being bitchy unless you can prove/disprove that abusive words is not a form of bitchy action - which I'm certain that you can't.

Quote:
PS. B-T novel translations are halfway through volume 4 at this moment (though volume 3 is still not fully finished but two translators working), so even english only readers are not that far behind you, you know.
Right...... so volume 3 is not fully finished but they are halfway through 4 and somehow that is considered not that far behind *when chapters in between are missing*?
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Old 2008-10-22, 03:29   Link #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
But I've already argued that a) she was already bitchy in the novel anyway, which a handful of people just seem to be denying (including you), and b) being more physical does not make her more bitchy than the novle because her verbal insults *is* a form of bitchiness itself. In which your answer was that words aren't as bad as physical wounds - but that's not actually an answer to the point, because which is worse is subjective, some would argue that mental trauma is worse than physical wounds (a lowered self-esteem takes years to cure, whereas physical wounds heals in weeks) and vice versa, but it doesn't change anything about Taiga being bitchy unless you can prove/disprove that abusive words is not a form of bitchy action - which I'm certain that you can't.
And you think physical wounds won't lower self-esteem?

I'm fine with calling Taiga ungrateful and bitchy, but sorry - physical violence is much worse than insults you can just ignore or walk away from.
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Old 2008-10-22, 03:46   Link #128
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houkoholic when I said she wasn't abusive I had in mind physical abusiveness, you have to be a total idiot to think that Taiga is not abusive at all. But she is more a dog that barks rather than a dog that bites. So no, goals are still in the same place it is juts you running around without a ball and kicking the air.

Anyways, to your point B I had already said that it is an open question if a physical violence means more abusive than verbal one or not, but it is generally considered (you can read many posts here and in Zero No Tsukaima thread) to be a sign of being more bitchy. You don't agree good for you but it is a matter of taste and you have to admit that majority of opinions lean that way that physical violence is more abusive than verbal one.

And yes they are not so far behind simply because the majority of volume is translated so even with missing gaps it is not that hard to be able to continue to volume 4 without much of problems.
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Old 2008-10-22, 14:23   Link #129
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I've just noticed, the author tells one exactly how is Taiga going to be in the little poem or verse or whatever at the beggining of the first novel.
Lol at me for not realising before

So Taiga is like a high security (extreme security maybe) chest guarding a soft and sweet treasure? lol Tiger treasure!
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Old 2008-10-22, 17:17   Link #130
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Originally Posted by Deadwings View Post
I've just noticed, the author tells one exactly how is Taiga going to be in the little poem or verse or whatever at the beggining of the first novel.
Lol at me for not realising before

So Taiga is like a high security (extreme security maybe) chest guarding a soft and sweet treasure? lol Tiger treasure!
heh... hadn't noticed that -- a poetic version of my "crunchy on the outside, creamy on the inside" variant rather than the classical "linear tsundere".
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Old 2008-10-22, 19:15   Link #131
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heh... hadn't noticed that -- a poetic version of my "crunchy on the outside, creamy on the inside" variant rather than the classical "linear tsundere".
Something like it was in the beginning of the anime too.

I get the feeling that rather than just applying to Taiga, it's also meant to apply to Ryuuji, the guy that no one approaches but is really a kind and helpful who just can't stand leaving someone in need. Not to mention, you know, everyone else. The whole "appearances/first impressions can be deceiving" motif seems to be the main theme of the series.
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Old 2008-10-26, 09:20   Link #132
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Some nice material at the beginning of Volume 4, Chapter 4.

Spoiler:
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Old 2008-10-26, 10:03   Link #133
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Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
Some nice material at the beginning of Volume 4, Chapter 4.

Spoiler:

I agree here wholeheartedly.

My wife was mentioning something to me one day. She said, of course she likes Ryuji, I asked her why is she so sure?
She replyed simply: its a romantic comedy novel and shes currently single. Since there are only 5 characters and she doesnt like Kit or the girls.. whose left? They went thru the trouble of creating a love interest for Kit, but didnt for Ami (tho future novels might change this).

At the end of the day, the rule seems to be, everyone likes somebody. Not much option for our dear characters at Toradora ;p
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Old 2008-10-27, 00:09   Link #134
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I'm continuing to see how violent Taiga is in the novel:

Spoiler:


As for Ami:

Spoiler:
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Last edited by houkoholic; 2008-10-27 at 18:59.
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Old 2008-10-27, 02:08   Link #135
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I have a question for the Novel Readers, is it explained how Minori and Taiga's friendship started or stands?
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Old 2008-10-27, 06:16   Link #136
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@houkoholic

Thanks! very rare to get any future novel spoilers for this series (please keep on coming! how bout Ryuji's current situation?). It is very refreshing to know that the novelist doesnt go outside of the theme of Toradora. My biggest fear has always been that, in order to stretch things out, novel 6+ would be about every character hooking up with one another and entering the stages of hating one another. Again I cite American teen dramas as an example (90210, Dawsons creek, and so on). Those shows do not appeal to me because the it always ends with characters that are fundamentically scarred (example would be character with Aids that dies) by the end of the show's run.

With Toradora, I just want to enjoy teenage interactions and in a way, the wholesomeness of the situation. People on different forums always vaguely mention "dark" and "angst" when describing future novels without elaborating. So thanks!

Last edited by msuwildog80; 2008-10-27 at 06:28.
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Old 2008-10-27, 06:18   Link #137
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Am I the only one who supports AmiXRyuji?...(runs to my nuclear bunker)
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Old 2008-10-27, 07:39   Link #138
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No, I kinda like that pairing, but the way she acts in my head while reading the books is probably a little different than the way the author intended it. I hope she's not too annoying in the show.
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Old 2008-10-27, 23:10   Link #139
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interesting I was really under the impression that Ami had real feelings for Ruuji. It seems I stand corrected.
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Old 2008-10-28, 00:00   Link #140
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Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
I'm continuing to see how violent Taiga is in the novel:


Spoiler:
Wasn't that in volume 5 and directed at Ryuji?
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