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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Second Season - Episode 3 Rating
Perfect 10 140 54.69%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 68 26.56%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 31 12.11%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 3.13%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 2.34%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 1.17%
Voters: 256. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-10-22, 17:42   Link #641
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Before I get my ubermench ready, you did also consider Clyne Faction terrorists, did you not?

Does anyone consider CB terrorist but Clyne faction not?
No, they won. Winning retroactively upgrades you from terrorist to revolutionary and/or freedom fighter.
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Old 2008-10-22, 17:46   Link #642
miles316
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Smile CB gundam misters

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
What, whine that he doesn't change his mind for the sake of sparing your feelings?

In my experience of internet arguments, and arguments in general, people committed enough to, well, argue, rarely change their minds. I'm no exception. Are you?


Oh, it's even worse than that. Even Setsuna realizes they didn't accomplish anything good. Indeed, he didn't try to claim anything like that. So, basically, you're justified as long as your intentions are good. Bit of circular logic, there.


They wear no uniform, and use violence to... terrorize people into following their political agenda, however vague. How are they not terrorists?

the celestial being i mean the gundam misters and the crew of the ship never attacked a civilian target only military and criminal targets they are a legitimate combatant. Executing a military campaign. Members of any military have to be prepared to pay the price. besides are nationalistic bias towards the nations being attacked. They are a legitimate military force.
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Old 2008-10-22, 17:55   Link #643
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by miles316 View Post
the celestial being i mean the gundam misters and the crew of the ship never attacked a civilian target only military
Louise begs to differ.
Quote:
and criminal targets they are a legitimate combatant.
Criminals are a legitimate target if you happen to be the police and follow procedure. The CB had no jurisdiction.

Quote:
Executing a military campaign. Members of any military have to be prepared to pay the price. besides are nationalistic bias towards the nations being attacked. They are a legitimate military force.
Yeah? Which nation declared war? While they were prancing around in enemy territory, did they wear uniforms properly identifying them as Celestial Beings?
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Old 2008-10-22, 17:58   Link #644
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Louise begs to differ.
Team Trinity wasn't legitimately part of Celestial Being, though they themselves did not know that.
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Old 2008-10-22, 18:03   Link #645
kakakka
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Team Trinity wasn't legitimately part of Celestial Being, though they themselves did not know that.
At first.

Though around ep 16 or so, majority of CBs members/observers consider them as Meisters, like Alejandro and Wang.
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Old 2008-10-22, 18:08   Link #646
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yeah? Which nation declared war? While they were prancing around in enemy territory, did they wear uniforms properly identifying them as Celestial Beings?
CB itself declared war on war in its public address. The huge mech with the name Gundam on it should be enough of a hint of who they are. People seemed to know immediately who they were when they got to the battlefield. Not that most armies announce their positions to their enemy before they attack anyway.
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Old 2008-10-22, 18:27   Link #647
miles316
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Smile clarity

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Louise begs to differ.

Criminals are a legitimate target if you happen to be the police and follow procedure. The CB had no jurisdiction.



Yeah? Which nation declared war? While they were prancing around in enemy territory, did they wear uniforms properly identifying them as Celestial Beings?
i am sorry for being unclear i did not mean the thrones i meant the mister and the crew of the Ptolemy never attacked a civilian target.
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Old 2008-10-22, 19:36   Link #648
Ascaloth
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I don't think you are the first person ever to wiki link argumentative fallacies. We all had to take Critical Thinking courses there.
I'm sure I never claimed as such. It was just a trivial comment to Skyfall for laughs. Switch off your SRSBSNS mode for once, please.
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Old 2008-10-22, 19:41   Link #649
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CB never attack civilian target,so there is no civil casualties.Only terrorist La Eden,Thrones,3 superpower & now A-Laws kill civilians.

Think about it,if Gundam 00 anime creator make the gundam meister disable all their target & foe,many people will talk & criticised the damn anime. Someone will then compare CB with Clyne faction & talk how lame they is.

Maybe in S2 gundam meister will only disable their target except Tieria of course.

Last edited by RAVNEN; 2008-10-22 at 19:42. Reason: 0 gundam,Exia gundamm!!!!!!!
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Old 2008-10-22, 19:54   Link #650
Charred Knight
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
No, they won. Winning retroactively upgrades you from terrorist to revolutionary and/or freedom fighter.
That makes absolutly no sense

A terrorist is a terrorist

A terrorist is someone who causes harm to non-combatants to induce fear to achieve a goal. Neither Kataron or Celestial Being has done that. Even Nena attacked the wedding because she was bored, and not to induce fear.
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Old 2008-10-22, 20:21   Link #651
RAVNEN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
That makes absolutly no sense

A terrorist is a terrorist

A terrorist is someone who causes harm to non-combatants to induce fear to achieve a goal. Neither Kataron or Celestial Being has done that. Even Nena attacked the wedding because she was bored, and not to induce fear.
Yeah,Kataron is freedom fighter faction, CB just want to destroy A-Laws & Nena is one crazy chick.
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Old 2008-10-22, 20:28   Link #652
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
That makes absolutely no sense

A terrorist is a terrorist

A terrorist is someone who causes harm to non-combatants to induce fear to achieve a goal. Neither Kataron or Celestial Being has done that. Even Nena attacked the wedding because she was bored, and not to induce fear.
No he's actually right, he just snidely avoided the merit of the question...The one who wins makes the rules in this case, but at the same point in time (for each series) the Clyne Factions' actions weren't much different in-terms of unilateral war stratagem and foolish self-rightousness...
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Old 2008-10-22, 20:42   Link #653
dahak
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Originally Posted by fizzmaister View Post
Well current predictions say that colonies at L points are a lot worse than were originally thought. The gravitational equilibrium that makes it stationary in the three body system, means that a lot of space junk gathers there. So it's not surprising that something would be there, and it's not someplace that would be a good place to build colonies. The three powers would be more likely to investigate L1 if any L point and not a standard orbital colony.
Except that L1,L2 and L3 are not stable equilibirum points in a multi body system, so you wouldn't expect things to stay there. Krung Thep would have to on occasions indulge in some form of powered manuevering to stay in L3.

L4, L5 on the other hand things stay near there even in multi body systems. Thus the Trojan Asteroids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
So, what was their endgame? How were they going to make world peace? Impose it through terror?
Team Ptolemaios planned to die according to Sumeragi.

They were doing a riff on the Divine Crusaders plan. Forcing the world to come together against them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narutaro View Post
Nena mentioned 'level 2' information. are they talking about Veda? unless Nena or Ryumin is Innovator, they must have some other way to use Veda.
We saw Nena interface with Veda during episode 17 of last season. Gold eye effect and all.

Tiera was not pleased.
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Old 2008-10-22, 20:57   Link #654
Dark Wing
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Originally Posted by JediNight View Post
There was conflict in the middle east, terrorist groups in Europe, HRL suppression in Sri Lanka, and an overall arms race cold war between the 3 world powers.

Setsuna tells us in Ep2 that the A-Laws have been responsible for a number of massacres, but they cover it up.

And the Federation is using economic sanctions and lockouts from the solar energy grid, along with military pressure, to force nations into disarming and joining the Federation.
Thank You! someone has finally put it out clear as day...yet it is still ignored...
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Old 2008-10-22, 21:08   Link #655
dahak
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Originally Posted by RAVNEN View Post
CB never attack civilian target,so there is no civil casualties.Only terrorist La Eden,Thrones,3 superpower & now A-Laws kill civilians.
Team Ptolemaios caused several hundred civilian casulties in Moralia. Mostly by dropping bits of AEU and PMC MS's on them.

The anti Drugs and Diamonds missions are likely to have done so as well. And the attack on the HRL Super Soldier project.

Team Trinity of course played a lot rougher. Professor Eifman for example. As did Ali Ali Sarches who was involved with that CB faction when he killed Kinue Crossroad.

And someone in Celestial Being was involved in a violent fraca at Jupiter, 80 to 120 years ago. Or did you think the man in the room with the Purple Haro nailed himself to the door?
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Old 2008-10-22, 21:26   Link #656
indr0008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
No, they won. Winning retroactively upgrades you from terrorist to revolutionary and/or freedom fighter.
so it all comes to that?
so if CB won the S1 and became the ruler then their killing was justified, and now because they did not then their logic forever is marked as stupid?

give them a break
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Old 2008-10-22, 21:37   Link #657
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh Minh
So, what was their endgame? How were they going to make world peace? Impose it through terror?
You're missing the forest for the trees here...No matter how flawed you believe CB is, the FLAW IN THE PLAN was the rouge element within the CB leadership caused by Alejandro Corner (Now Ribbons)...These people had been part of a multi-generational sect, cult, whatever with the expressed goal of conglomerating the world when it was deemed they were on the precipice of disaster (Zero-sum game regarding the elevators and it's possible destruction which would possibly breed a endgame type of World-War)...The generational leadership was suppose to carry the world into a unifying federation not a mercenary for hire breeding ground disguised as a functioning global military faction (A-LAWS)...

Who knows how they would have succeeded?? I think the purpose of this series is to express why something like this probably could never work, but again this show is about the motivations behind trying something this idealistic...Schenberg himself never truly believed this would work, it was only his sincere hope...Otherwise he would have never limited the GN drives on the contingency that Veda would never be compromised...Now you can say Schenberg was a taurd for thinking no one would betray the plan through hundreds of years, but that's why he had his ace the PwnsAM (The reason behind why Veda picked who it picked to carry out this task of accepting the TransAm system after compromise is still somewhat of a mystery--Especially Setsuna who may not even have been picked by Veda)...

After Veda got haxed Schenberg's ghost only cares that the pilots Veda selected do what they can in-terms of their own hearts...This is no longer about World Peace but about singular motivations somehow fighting as one (Celestial Being post TransAm)...

So you see you're asking a question based on practical enforcement, but this plan has always been flawed and based on personal responsibility...Once that function was decayed you have the classic Gundam set-up of Right vs. Right//Wrong vs. Wrong...So to ask the question you are pining after (IMO) misses the true "depth" of this story...
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Old 2008-10-23, 00:20   Link #658
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by dahak View Post
Except that L1,L2 and L3 are not stable equilibirum points in a multi body system, so you wouldn't expect things to stay there. Krung Thep would have to on occasions indulge in some form of powered manuevering to stay in L3.

L4, L5 on the other hand things stay near there even in multi body systems. Thus the Trojan Asteroids.



Team Ptolemaios planned to die according to Sumeragi.

They were doing a riff on the Divine Crusaders plan. Forcing the world to come together against them.
Then what's Setsuna complaining about? It worked! Great. How different would the unification have been without Ribbons or Corner? My position is, not very.
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Old 2008-10-23, 01:20   Link #659
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Then what's Setsuna complaining about? It worked! Great. How different would the unification have been without Ribbons or Corner? My position is, not very.
Setsuna probably just chill out and relax during the 4 year period patting himself in the back for job well done after killing Corner and that maniac Graham, that is until he heard about A-LAWS and feel he still has jobs to do.
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Old 2008-10-23, 03:35   Link #660
Charred Knight
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
No he's actually right, he just snidely avoided the merit of the question...The one who wins makes the rules in this case, but at the same point in time (for each series) the Clyne Factions' actions weren't much different in-terms of unilateral war stratagem and foolish self-rightousness...
No, a terrorist is someone who harms people to create terror

hence the term terrorist

Calling the Clyne Faction a terrorist organization just tells me you don't know the meaning of the word terrorist.

Its kind of cute when you try to create thought provoking discussion by calling George Washington a terrorist, but by the definition used by both the UN, and the United States neither the Clyne Faction or the Colonial army can be considered terrorist.
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