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View Poll Results: Haruka or Mitsuki?
Haruka, and respondent is male 258 45.50%
Haruka, and respondent is female 53 9.35%
Mitsuki, and respondent is male 216 38.10%
Mitsuki, and respondent is female 40 7.05%
Voters: 567. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-05-10, 20:15   Link #21
Arwyn
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Very well put chuckert, I agree for the most part.
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Old 2004-05-11, 21:27   Link #22
EIFY
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I also agree with chuckert.

What Takayuki needs in these three years when Haruka is in coma is encouragements, not love from Mitsuki. Haruka is not dead. If you ask a doctor, he/she will tell you stories that patient in coma have much better chance to wake up if people close to her stay by her side and talk to her. What happiness is really depends on people. If I were Takayuki, I would consider talking to Haruka everyday and imagining the day she wake up my greatest happiness. I really don't like the part when Haruka's parents told Takayuki not to come anymore.

There is no conflict between Takayuki's love with Haruka and his life. If he gets into college (maybe even majors in child psychology), stays at Haruka's side and declines Mitsuki's love, I believe there will be less damage to everyone.

That wouldn't make a good show, though....
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Old 2004-05-12, 02:58   Link #23
Mentar
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You're forgetting several important things, EIFY.

First, the probability of someone waking up after a year in coma are next to nil. Yes, it happens, but that's the extreme exception, rather than the rule. Also, Haruka's parents have forbidden Takayuki to visit Haruka anymore. On Mitsuki's side, Takayuki was going to hell. The guy wasn't about to snap, he HAD snapped, see the "let's visit the book exhibition" drama, when he was carrying a comatose patient out of a hospital.

At that stage, Takayuki was pretty much unable to care for himself. And the teary scene of Mitsuki at Haruka's bed indicates that Mitsuki was also about to break down. It was time for Takayuki to get a grip on himself and move on - and it was time for Mitsuki to tell Takayuki to do it either. Still hanging on is something you can possibly do in an idealized movie - but not in real life.
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Old 2004-05-12, 10:52   Link #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar
At that stage, Takayuki was pretty much unable to care for himself. And the teary scene of Mitsuki at Haruka's bed indicates that Mitsuki was also about to break down. It was time for Takayuki to get a grip on himself and move on - and it was time for Mitsuki to tell Takayuki to do it either. Still hanging on is something you can possibly do in an idealized movie - but not in real life.
Yeah, I would say that's a pretty good summary of the "moral" of KgNE (if there is one). Romantic idealistic love is a nice dream, but that's all it is - a fleeting dream. Practical love is a lot less perfect, and littered with struggles, but it's a lot more real. In the end, that's something worth fighting for.

KgNE was a very unromantic show, in that way. It was a journey of letting go of dreams past, and grabbing hold of the here-and-now. Sort of a sobering story, especially when compared with others in the genre. It's what made the show so unique in my book, but also somewhat depressing when it's all said and done. Having Takayuki end up with Haruka would have been the true idealist romantic end, but that wasn't what KgNE was trying to say. Still, though, if I ever play the game, that's the ending I'd want to see first.
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Old 2004-05-12, 11:11   Link #25
musouka
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I'm a woman and I voted for Haruka.

I found Mitsuki too weak for my taste. From a feminine perspective, I found her too insecure and needy for me to really respect her. She was too intent on lying to herself so many times. This is not to say I hate her, just that I didn't adore her. I came close when finally got up and left him after all the heartbreak he had put her through, but then that sappy, unrealistic ending was the nail in the coffin.

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Old 2004-05-12, 11:18   Link #26
EIFY
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Given the psychological states of the main characters in KGNE, I agree that what Takayuki and Mitsuki did is a valid option. What I am suggesting is that hanging on the slight chance of Haruka waking up and carrying out a positive life at the same time is also a realistic (and in my opinion, better) alternative, and that's what I would suggest Takayuki to do if I were his friend.
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Old 2004-05-13, 00:07   Link #27
kujoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracus
And just as a side note, it had only been about a year after the accident when Mitsuki got naked.
True. And I'm not even going to waste my time discussing the sex part, since everyone has their own principles and valuations regarding that. However, I would just like to point out, that while it's only been a year since Haruka's coma, it's also been a lot longer than that since Mitsuki had developed feelings for Takayuki.

Add the complicated matter of Mitsuki standing by his side during his worst days, her imposed self-guilt and what she feels for the guy, and you'll have a complex situation that cannot be pinned down by one person alone. We may have our own opinions--but in the absolute sense--who are we to judge something like that?

Last edited by kujoe; 2004-05-13 at 03:46.
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Old 2004-05-13, 02:05   Link #28
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Originally Posted by kujoe
--but in the absolute sense--who are we to judge something like that?
In the grand scheme of things, no one can, except for the people living through it.


But then again, being human means everyone else is going to put their 2 cents in anyway...

No matter what we do, the actions of the characters are percieved differently by every person that watches. We all have our own set of personal filters that we run things through, which is built up on culture, the way we were raised, and our own experiences.

Perception isnt a matter of right or wrong, it just is. Part of why I posted the poll was to see the underlying reasons why folks felt the way they did. The two basic things that it boils down to seems to be the split between love and trust.

Most folks faulting Mitsuki for her behavior focus on the fact that she wasnt honest, and she betrayed people.

The folks forgiving her focus on the fact that her actions were done because of her love for Takayuki.

Which is right? Both. It just depends on how your personal perceptions color it.

While I personally felt for Haruka, I can understand Mitsuki's actions. I dont necessarily agree with all of them, but I can understand them. But thats my personal take, and nothing more.

After all, if we all thought the same way, life would be pretty boring.
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Old 2004-05-13, 03:42   Link #29
kujoe
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Originally Posted by Arwyn
Perception isnt a matter of right or wrong, it just is. Part of why I posted the poll was to see the underlying reasons why folks felt the way they did. The two basic things that it boils down to seems to be the split between love and trust.

Most folks faulting Mitsuki for her behavior focus on the fact that she wasnt honest, and she betrayed people.

The folks forgiving her focus on the fact that her actions were done because of her love for Takayuki.

Which is right? Both. It just depends on how your personal perceptions color it.
Yup. That's what I was trying to imply. In a discussion such as this, it's quite tempting--and downright easy--to take up the mantle of judge and jury from an impersonal and detached perspective. We are simply witnesses, not judges. Finalizing what is "right" and what is "wrong" is just one of the pitfalls that I hope we will be avoiding.
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Old 2004-05-13, 14:44   Link #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kujoe
Yup. That's what I was trying to imply. In a discussion such as this, it's quite tempting--and downright easy--to take up the mantle of judge and jury from an impersonal and detached perspective. We are simply witnesses, not judges. Finalizing what is "right" and what is "wrong" is just one of the pitfalls that I hope we will be avoiding.
Well, beyond simply being a judge, being third-party observers in this drama certainly gives us an opinion about what we wish Takayuki would have done. The fact that this show is able to enlicit such strong feelings and opinions is a testament to the power of the story and characters. I'm not sure that I could say that what any of the characters did was right or wrong, but I certainly wish, after seeing the whole show, that Takayuki would have stuck with Haruka instead of chosing Mitsuki. But, that's just my personal opinion. If these were real people, we could certainly say that it was his choice to make. Keeping in mind, though, that this anime was based on a game where you control the actions of the protagonist and thus create your own destiny, I think that these types of reactions were precisely what the anime producers were intending.
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Old 2004-05-13, 15:43   Link #31
Kracus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kujoe
True. And I'm not even going to waste my time discussing the sex part, since everyone has their own principles and valuations regarding that. However, I would just like to point out, that while it's only been a year since Haruka's coma, it's also been a lot longer than that since Mitsuki had developed feelings for Takayuki.
Regardless, she still betrayed her best friend. She didn't like takayuki in the very beginning, Haruka did. That's why Mitsuki did what she did to become friends with him. Realize she started developing feelings, the right thing to do would have been to express that to Haruka. She didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kujoe
Add the complicated matter of Mitsuki standing by his side during his worst days, her imposed self-guilt and what she feels for the guy, and you'll have a complex situation that cannot be pinned down by one person alone. We may have our own opinions--but in the absolute sense--who are we to judge something like that?
I agree it is complex. And it may just be my opinion, but it wasn't the right thing to do. That can be shown by how much drama occurred afterwards. It was complex and she made it even more complex (actually both of them did, takes two to tango).

Also 'absolute sense'? You mean relative since you wanna say we can not say anything cause it is only relative to our opinion and can't apply to someone going through that. Because in common sense, if she was a friend, she would have done what she could to help him back on his feet and not help him stay in a rut and babysit him. Shinji's aspect is also felt cause he wasn't shown doing anything. He just left Takayuki behind.

blah I gotta go.
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Old 2004-05-13, 20:25   Link #32
kujoe
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Originally Posted by Kracus
Also 'absolute sense'? You mean relative since you wanna say we can not say anything cause it is only relative to our opinion and can't apply to someone going through that. Because in common sense, if she was a friend, she would have done what she could to help him back on his feet and not help him stay in a rut and babysit him. Shinji's aspect is also felt cause he wasn't shown doing anything. He just left Takayuki behind.
Mitsuki helped Takayuki stay in a rut, you say? Is that how you see it? That's quite a negative picture you paint there. Takayuki was at his lowest, and even though Mitsuki stood by him all that time, the decision to move on has always been his in the end. I doubt Mitsuki was putting Takayuki in a rut. Actually, it could be said to be the other way around.

Sure, Mitsuki offered herself--but still, Takayuki accepted, realized something at that point, or perhaps just went with the flow. It takes two to tango, as you say. Why should I only blame the woman? As for Shinji, all I can say is that there are limits to how much help can be offered to one's friends. There are times when nothing can be done, when you don't want to meddle in the affairs of others, or when what's needed is a chance to help oneself. He was still there to give a beating or two to Takayuki after all. I actually find it quite natural.

And when I said, "absolute sense" I primarily meant going beyond descriptions of right and wrong. I'm not asking you to leave them by the doorstep, but to go beyond it. Things can be easily oversimplified in the long run if everything was a matter of right and wrong. That's what I think anyway.

Last edited by kujoe; 2004-05-14 at 05:08.
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Old 2004-05-14, 15:05   Link #33
Lemartes
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I'm not a fanatical christ or something, but still I strongly believe in the values of the ten commandments. And the 7th commandment is: "Thou shalt not commit adultery"
This referred to a man engaging in sexual intercourse with a woman who was either married or betrothed to another man.
However the value of this commandment still exists nowadays and therefore I think, that either Takayuki, Mitsuki and takayuki's friend are morally wrong.

Of course all of them knew that they were wrong. The point for Mitsuki and Takayuki is: they realized that they did wrong things and were really upset about themselves.
The only one in the series I don't like in the end is takayuki's friend who did never show any real sign of regret for betraying either his gf and best friend with Mitsuki - or he rather acts too much like a morale aphostle towards takayuki even after sleeping with Mitsuki.

Last edited by Lemartes; 2004-05-14 at 15:18.
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Old 2004-05-14, 15:20   Link #34
Arwyn
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Originally Posted by Lemartes
I'm not a fanatical christ or something, but still I strongly believe in the values of the ten commandments. And the 7th commandment is: "Thou shalt not commit adultery"
This referred to a man engaging in sexual intercourse with a woman who was either married or betrothed to another man.
However the value of this commandment still exists nowadays and therefore I think, that either Takayuki, Mitsuki and takayuki's friend are morally wrong.

Of course all of them knew that they are wrong. The point for Mitsuki and Takayuki is: they realized that they did wrong things and were really upset about themselves.
The only one in the series I don't like in the end is takayuki's friend who did never show any real sign of regret for betraying either his gf and best friend with Mitsuki - or he rather acts too much like a morale aphostle towards takayuki even after sleeping with Mitsuki.
Well, technically adultery would require one of them to be married, which they are not. Nor was anyone engaged at the time. Bascially what they did was just good old fashioned fornication.

Now if you want to include committed relationships in that as well, then you could argue that Mitsuki and Shinji did, but that would be a stretch.

Now is what they did wrong? I would have to go with saying yes, but that is really part of the whole plot. I do agree with you that Shinji really comes off as the worst of the bunch. Not only does he cheat on his girlfriend, and betray his friend, he they gets up and makes a hypocrite of himself by preaching to Takayuki and insisting that its his fault in the first place. Thats a bit of stretch.

Shinji really isnt much of a character though, he is more of a convienient plot device. He shows up when needed, then disappears, and much of the story goes right past him. He doesnt seem to care a thing about Haruka, shows up to do the nasty with Mitsuki, beats the hell out of Takayuki, and then goes back to life as normal with school and his girlfriend. Pretty weak, but thats just my opinion.
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Old 2004-05-14, 15:25   Link #35
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shinji does make the fnunniest face in teh first episode
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Old 2004-05-15, 07:18   Link #36
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hm the whole thing about mitsuki betraying her best friend and all.. i think it comes down to motive. and in this example, mitsuki's motive definitely isnt "to steal/seduce her best friend's boyfriend".. she's just in love, it's as simple as that.
add in all those years in highschool where her feelings are unrequited, plus the 18 months after haruka's accident while she's trying to help takayuki move on.. and her actions become really understandable, and very human..

on a sidenote.. to all of the people who think that mitsuki should have told haruka that she also fell for takayuki in highschool...? no way :P
when your best friend likes someone, and they say it first, they sorta..get "dibs" on em you know? even if you like the same person, your job as their best friend is to support them and just keep your feelings inside. if you say "hey i like him/her too" now all of a sudden you are competing with your friend. to be sure, this does happen in real life, but it shows that those two friends weren't really friends in the first place. mitsuki doesnt confess to haruka OR takayuki while those two are together, cuz she's a good kid and she knows what friendship is
course things do get very complicated later on...
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Old 2004-05-15, 08:06   Link #37
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I agree. For those that said Mitsuki 'betrayed' Haruka is just a shallow way of summing things up without giving enough thoughts about the story.

If you think carefully from a non-bias point of view, things wouldn't have gone so complicated if Haruka had to courage to approach Takayuki direct right at the start. And when Haruka eventually confessed to Takayuki, the reason that he didn't reject her was because she was Mitsuki's best friend, and he didn't want to hurt her feeling (even though Takayuki fell into love with Haruka after getting to know her, if it wasn't because Mitsuki he would had probably rejected her without even trying to get to know her).

Anyway, for the so called 'betrayal' part, no matter how much Takayuki was still caring for Haruka when she was in the coma, as far I'm concerned their relationship was officially over when Haruka's parents decline Takayuki to visit Haruka anymore and told him to move on with his life. He could have moved on and found someone totally new, but it just happened that Mitsuki was the one.

The future of all three them were basically ruined because of that one accident, and it was nobody's fault....even though Takayuki keep blaming himself thinking 'if he wasn't late on that day then none of that would have happened', but in reality no one can know the future with certainty to avoid any unpleasant events, and for the things to come is simply to be decided by fate......so I don't believe it is Takayuki OR Mitsuki fault that Haruka got involved in the accident......it's not like they knew if Takayuki was late then Haruka would get into the accident and then got into a coma for 3 years.

Last edited by Marine-RX179; 2004-05-15 at 08:21.
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Old 2004-05-15, 21:11   Link #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HelloMuggle
on a sidenote.. to all of the people who think that mitsuki should have told haruka that she also fell for takayuki in highschool...? no way :P
when your best friend likes someone, and they say it first, they sorta..get "dibs" on em you know? even if you like the same person, your job as their best friend is to support them and just keep your feelings inside. if you say "hey i like him/her too" now all of a sudden you are competing with your friend. to be sure, this does happen in real life, but it shows that those two friends weren't really friends in the first place. mitsuki doesnt confess to haruka OR takayuki while those two are together, cuz she's a good kid and she knows what friendship is
course things do get very complicated later on...
I respect your opinion on this. But if Mistuki is such a good friend and supports Haruka, she shouldn't have asked Takayuki for a ring while he was running to meet up with Haruka. Even if it was her b-day, she should have thought of something else. She asked him this knowing full well he was dating Haruka and they were getting closer and closer. Now if he was single, it's a green light I say. Did you see Mituski's face after Takayuki ran off after buying her the ring? She was clearly falling in love with him in my opinion.

As far as Mitsuki declaring Haruka her rival, I said this because I'm a firm believer in: You only live once, if you want something, go after it. If you hesitate and let it slip away from you, it's your own fault. Love is something you shouldn't sacrifice to make someone else happy. It only leads to bitterness.
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Old 2004-05-19, 11:42   Link #39
nephilim
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i voted for haruka because she is strong enough to accept the truth after she woke up.

personally i think that having sex with someone other than ur husband/wife is wrong (i tried but can't change my mindset) but putting the act aside, i can sympathise the feelings of lonliness and and despair with mitsuki because i've been through these feelings, in a different situation of course.

i point the finger at takayuki for not handling the situation properly, hurting mitsuki in the process. i feel that mituski has suffered much more than haruka though.

if it wasn't for the bed part i would have probably chosen mitsuki instead, because i've seen her go through more character development than haruka
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Old 2004-05-21, 17:05   Link #40
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Mitsuki. And why? Blue hair, It's all about the blue hair.
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