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Old 2007-09-27, 08:18   Link #1
Zu Ra
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[MANGA] Espadas' Ranking

We all know Nell was ranked 3 rd once upon a time but was that ranking system same as Privaron as in former Espada as Dol Cirucci or something different.

Dol is ranked 103 was that in relationship with his former ranking … If we go by creation and numbering theory the Privaron Espada were not created by Hogyoku so numbering according to time of creation is void ..

Nnoitora who is current number 5 defeated Nell the former Espada of rank 3 so what must have been his rank then. He also mentions it happened years ago, as in Nell ranking three was defeated. Therefore, what systems of Espada are they talking about as Privarion were there for a transitional phase a few months at the maximum? Going by the theory Aizen constituted / created Espada the ten swords

This few years raises quite a few questions were the Espada in existence before Aizen took over HM ? I hope this few years is a mistranslation so the confusion is cleared
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Old 2007-09-27, 08:45   Link #2
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Yea it's abit messed up. If Nel's a privaron espada, noitora shouldn't have existed then, because he's a current batch hougyouku espada. And it's obvious Aizen didn't take over HM 3 years ago. If Nel was a hougyouku espada, it makes no sense that she existed 3 years ago.

My own theory is that Nel is a privaron and so is Noitora. And somehow, because of his sheer strength, he is able to make it into the current ranking espada, despite being a previous batch espada. That is also why he has all that pride in himself being the top espada. Well, my own 2 cents.
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Old 2007-09-27, 10:00   Link #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sceptileex View Post
My own theory is that Nel is a privaron and so is Noitora. And somehow, because of his sheer strength, he is able to make it into the current ranking espada, despite being a previous batch espada. That is also why he has all that pride in himself being the top espada. Well, my own 2 cents.
The only thing about that is why Noitora says that her number "means nothing now". It's like he's saying that her strength is obsolete compared to the new batch of Espada. Why would he say that if he were a Privaron also and a lower ranked one at that?

I agree it's confusing and quite possibly a plot hole. If the current Espada were turned into arrancar with the hogyoku, then they shouldn't have existed for more than a few months. I guess it's possible that a few of the pre-hogyoku ones were strong enough to make the cut but they should be in the lower ranks.
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Old 2007-09-27, 11:46   Link #4
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I believe that the tattoo thing is a bit recent. We didn't see the privaron like Dordoni, Cirucci and Gantenbein having a tattoo.
So, maybe, Nell is a more recent espada in comparison to the privaron, which have a different numeration system.

And the whole "years before" thing is a lot confusing. Aizen gained the Hougyoku a few months ago, and there are lots of hints that it's been years since Aizen started to create his army in Las Noches.
The only way I can see an explanation about these two things is that Hueco Mundo could possibly have a different timeline.
One day in the Earth could be a week or more in Hueco Mundo. The same kind of rule should apply to Soul Society either.

And if the answer is not that, maybe Aizen was already creating Arrancars when he still was a captain in Soul Society.
We know that he did lots of experiences trying to hibridizate Hollows. The ones we heard could be only the failed ones.
Following that, at that time he could already have an espada generation, not composed by perfect arrancars, but powerful ones who already were the elite at that time.

And after he returned to Hueco Mundo with the Hougyoku, he started to create even more powerful and perfect hybrids, substituting the former ones and making the current espada that we know now.
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Old 2007-09-28, 06:33   Link #5
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I don't think Nell is a Privaron Espada at all, as she is not part of Aizen's army, i.e. she is rank-less. She was kicked out of La Noches by Nnoitra, while loosing her memory from the trauma and thus her tattoo was never removed.

Also, I think she was part of the same batch of natural arrancar as Dordonii and co. or maybe the first generation of arrancar made with the Ultra-Skittle/Steve/Glorified Magic 8-ball/Hougyoku.
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Old 2008-10-29, 04:11   Link #6
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I have to go with Espada genrations theory revealed during Nel/Noi flashback 2
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Old 2008-10-29, 04:34   Link #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbl View Post
I don't think Nell is a Privaron Espada at all, as she is not part of Aizen's army, i.e. she is rank-less. She was kicked out of La Noches by Nnoitra, while loosing her memory from the trauma and thus her tattoo was never removed.

Also, I think she was part of the same batch of natural arrancar as Dordonii and co. or maybe the first generation of arrancar made with the Ultra-Skittle/Steve/Glorified Magic 8-ball/Hougyoku.
If she is part of Don's litter then she would be Privarion and 103. Can't be... we have one of those already...
First generations occurred naturally. Second are created by Aizen.

I think she was made by Aizen but not with Hougyoku. He said that he had experiments but was looking for the means to create the perfect hybrid.

My guess is...he made her that way. Or Time flows different in HM than anywhere else and she is the 3 that replaced 103, got kicked out by Noi. Aizen probably figured if that could happen...She is useless (You know he just discards useless chicks) So he make a new number 3 which is probably Halibel or Barrigan
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Old 2008-10-29, 04:45   Link #8
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Him, interesting, but I think you're overthinking it a bit. I figure Aizen took over La Noches leaving *most* of the command infrastructure intact. If Nnoitra was strong enough to make it into the Espada, it could be that he worked his way back up, or was a significantly low enough rank that he was passed over during the initial purge, or something like that.

And the only reason he beat Nel was because he got the drop on her from behind in a sneaky ambush after nearly killing her fraccion. He bashed her on the head while she was distracted by her injured fraccion.
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Old 2008-10-29, 05:40   Link #9
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Only likely explanation I can think of is that Aizen took over Las Noches long before he obtained the hougyoku and there are at least three generations of espada: gen 1 - Privaron - the arrancar Aizen found already in HM when he took over, gen 2 - Nel & Nnoi etc - arrancar upgraded with Aizen's experiments, gen 3 - current espada - Arrancar upgraded with Hougyoku, gen 4(?) - wonderweiss - arrancar created with hougyoku.

There may have been alot of in-fighting between espada like Nnoitra and Nel and many rose in ranks while others died.

Otherwise the espada must have existed and served the hollow king before Aizen took over, but iirc it was mentioned that Aizen formed the espada so this is impossible.

Another possibility is that Kubo just messed up his timeline and we're trying to fix it for him.
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Old 2008-10-29, 07:13   Link #10
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Praviron aren't Natural Espada, Praviron are any ex-Espada who got his/her seat taken. Grimmjow (who is Hougyoku 'created') was a Praviron when Luppi took his place.

I think I rememberd Noi to be Ranked 8 when he and whats-his-name ambushed Nel. He moved up either by getting stronger or ranks 6 and 7 got dumped and there was no-one stronger to replace him.

I think Aizen had already set the Espada up when he was a Captain/during his 'death'. Back then, he was collecting the top ten Natural Arrancar, and when he stumbled upon another who's stronger than, say, 8, but weaker than 7, said Arrancar would become the new 8 and the previous one will be pushed to 9, 9 to 10, and 10 would become a Praviron. When he got the Hougyoku, the new Arrancar entered the ranks the same way, pushing weaker ones down making another into a Praviron in the process, provided all 10 slots are full.

So Nel would probably a Natural Arrancar Espada, who while in her prime got ambushed by Noi and Syazel (oh yea...) and dropped off the list. Because there was a space, everyone below 3 moved up one, and I guess Noi had to work for the remaining ranks. That might mean Szayel was the most powerful Numero at that time and got the rank of 10 when Nel was defeated. He then worked his way up to 8. Makes sense, both him and Noi moved up 2 ranks since then.
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Old 2008-10-29, 10:04   Link #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity View Post
Him, interesting, but I think you're overthinking it a bit. I figure Aizen took over La Noches leaving *most* of the command infrastructure intact. If Nnoitra was strong enough to make it into the Espada, it could be that he worked his way back up, or was a significantly low enough rank that he was passed over during the initial purge, or something like that.
Aizen is the LAW in Los Noches the heart of HM....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity View Post
And the only reason he beat Nel was because he got the drop on her from behind in a sneaky ambush after nearly killing her fraccion. He bashed her on the head while she was distracted by her injured fraccion.
Um ...no kidding! I didn't say I didn't understand the reason? It happened right? Does Aizen-sama have a use for fools? Bad question he does...that's beside the point. Just make a new one! *Instant Vizard #3*

Of course I over think it...we all do! (It's called OTAKU) it's why the thread exists...




See Neuro just said the same thing I did but differently...

^0^

EDIT
@Kon...their spots got taken because they occurred natural and weren't suped up. Espada, Fraccion /Numeros are like "Pimp my Arrancar"
First Gen are Privarion with the Exception of the squid with Nejibana...#9 They occurred naturally so Aizen-sama doesn't consider them that great
Tres Cifas thus they are called. Privarion is the name for the class. 3 digit numbers means they are OLD NEWS TO AIZEN!
Nel has 1
1-10 order of power...Termed Arrancar. Former Class...Menos. Called Espada. For the top-u
11-99. Numeros, Class... All Hollows. Ordered by birth so they can be forced in to subservience by top-u hence called Fraccion
100_up. Privarion . Former Menos who became Arrancar Naturally. Been replaced by topu thus given a 3digit # Thus called Tres Cifa's.
Read chapter again...or if you ask. Later when I have time I will get the page for you!

Last edited by Utsukushii Hono'o; 2008-10-29 at 10:20.
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Old 2008-10-29, 11:41   Link #12
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unless I forgot something...I would like to believe that Grimmjow is a Natural Espada, given his flashback.
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Old 2008-10-29, 11:47   Link #13
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His flashback dosen't really prove anything. He was a adjuchas, so he could have transformed into a arrancar through hougyouku or naturally.
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Old 2008-10-29, 13:03   Link #14
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We know D-roy who was the weakest under him seemed to have been an Anacarr durring MiTR durring the part that was cut from the anime showing Iceringer makeing GF an Anacarr (ch25 page 18-19) had what looks like D-roy looking down on them Although it looks as if his bottom half was still sandwormish. So my thoughts are that like GF Grim and his Group were upgrades.
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Old 2008-10-29, 21:39   Link #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsukushii Hono'o View Post
EDIT
@Kon...their spots got taken because they occurred natural and weren't suped up. Espada, Fraccion /Numeros are like "Pimp my Arrancar"
First Gen are Privarion with the Exception of the squid with Nejibana...#9 They occurred naturally so Aizen-sama doesn't consider them that great
Tres Cifas thus they are called. Privarion is the name for the class. 3 digit numbers means they are OLD NEWS TO AIZEN!
Nel has 1
1-10 order of power...Termed Arrancar. Former Class...Menos. Called Espada. For the top-u
11-99. Numeros, Class... All Hollows. Ordered by birth so they can be forced in to subservience by top-u hence called Fraccion
100_up. Privarion . Former Menos who became Arrancar Naturally. Been replaced by topu thus given a 3digit # Thus called Tres Cifa's.
Read chapter again...or if you ask. Later when I have time I will get the page for you!
whaaat? What I said is that Praviron Espada = all and any ex-Espada.
When someone joins Aizen's army as an Arrancar, they start off as a Numero. If he/she is strong enough, then he/she would be promoted to an Espada. If another Arrancar is stronger than above mentioned Espada, said Arrancar would be promoted to Espada and placed according to his/her power. If the Espada is full when said Arrancar is promoted, the weakest (10) would have to be kicked off and he/she thus becomes a Praviron. Yes, everyone starts as a Numero, but those powerful enough are immediately promoted. (Not explicitly mentioned but it makes sense, right? or should i not try to apply logic to bleach?)
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Old 2008-10-30, 00:31   Link #16
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A necessary evil....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konpachi View Post
whaaat? What I said is that Praviron Espada = all and any ex-Espada.
)
...don't feel like getting deep. But...

Privarion are first Generation Arrancar. There is no indication that they all were ex-Espada.

The Tres Cifas. Reason there are two different names and they are called that. It's a class system...

That is why they have a Three digit number that used to be two. They are also ALL MENOS (Of different classes. i.e. Gillian, Adjuchas, VL)<--...Maybe.

The only exception who was not a Tres Cifas nor a Menos. was Aaroniero Arruruerie, Espada #9. Who was hollow that had a unique ability to absorb the abilities of whomever he consumed and use them too.. He ate the Hollow that fused with Shiba Kaien. He was able to use Kaien's power because he had his memories (from the Hollow's Memory & Appearance because of self esteem issues. *can you blame him?!*)

He was the last of his Generation. Privarion. Not Tres Cifas who are the Ex-Espada.

Beside ex means he's fired or retired. Which he clearly was not! Which means Privarion DOES NOT=ALL Ex-Espada...

LOL!

Which brings me to another point. When making that statement It's possible that Nel's life could not have been known about. But then that rules out Noi being from that Generation too! Since last means "There isn't another anywhere"

So I don't believe either of them are former Privarion that Aizen didn't create.

I think Aizen's "Pimp My Arrancar" team worked on them. But they didn't get "Hydraulics" because they didn't have the Hougyoku. I do believe they were created by" Artificial Means" just not with the Hougyoku. I believe that while Nel was out of town. Aizen decided to PUT some NEW"Rims"(20 inch!) on Noi .Looks like he also decided to redo the body since he had the Hougyoku and could afford to put a "New Engine" in that bitch! That's why he looks the different now. His weapon changed...
So Noi is spinning on "20's" *Plays Steady Mobbin* Get in bitch!...

Nel is like the equivalent of having "Fake Spinners and 16's" (Fuckers couldn't even afford 18 inches without the Hougyoku)

You feel me?

The question is when the hell did he do it all?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konpachi View Post
When someone joins Aizen's army as an Arrancar, they start off as a Numero. If he/she is strong enough, then he/she would be promoted to an Espada. If another Arrancar is stronger than above mentioned Espada, said Arrancar would be promoted to Espada and placed according to his/her power. If the Espada is full when said Arrancar is promoted, the weakest (10) would have to be kicked off and he/she thus becomes a Praviron. Yes, everyone starts as a Numero, but those powerful enough are immediately promoted. (Not explicitly mentioned but it makes sense, right? or should i not try to apply logic to bleach?
*Sigh* Let's try this another way...

Aizen made some Arrancar. 1-99 (100 Used to be TEN when he was an Espada)
ESPADA
The strongest of all those he created were taken and numbered by order of Strength. Just so happens all of these except one (#9) were ALL Menos.

They are Espada. (Top of the food chain)


Fraccion.(Middle of food chain)
Because Espada are the strongest they have the right to pick any Numeros they want and make them servants. They can have one or 20. Their choice. Most seem to pick their homies not necessarily the strongest ones.
Which is why I say some are just under Espada Level. You can't tell since they are bound because they roll from the same hood. Not because they are as strong as their masters.

Numeros ( last in the food chain)
11-up Are not numbered by Strength but the order they were born. Thus are called Numeros. Because they have a number but it doesn't really say how strong they are....

Numerous can include all classes of Hollows but only the one that the Espada chose are Fraccion. Some can actually be Menos that didn't make "Team Espada"

Vega could be one of em...

That is how Arrancar Power Level work. The key is figuring out who belongs to what class

Last edited by Utsukushii Hono'o; 2008-10-30 at 02:00.
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Old 2008-10-30, 00:33   Link #17
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Okay, from the manga I got the impression that the espada were around BEFORE Aizen took over HM. Aizen only took over HM recently, hence why there is still some obvious and some subtle resistance to his authority. It would seem from what's been said thus far, that Aizen's Hyogoku only made the pre-existing espada stronger and facilitated the quick creation of new espada.

So in relation to Nel, what you have is
Spoiler for Manga spoiler:
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Old 2008-10-30, 00:52   Link #18
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Arrancar (Broken Mask) seem to have been around but Aizen probably labeled them and sorted them into groups. He could have even coined the term Esapada. Don was replaced by Aizen which means he served Aizen...
"Aizen-sama no longer needs us"

As for Noi vs Nel. Noi's dumb ass thinks that he's hot shit because he's a souped 2020 Ford SUV with 20 inch rims I might add. (That's spinning!)

He doesn't realize Nel the 96 Toyota Corolla with the Fake Spinners and 16's. Will still outrun his ass. And last damn near forever no matter how you injure the body. All you do is give it a tune-up (In this case emotional distress. Itsygo!)

That's why she was kicking his ass. It's only my opinion
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Old 2008-10-30, 00:55   Link #19
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I'm curious to why she reverted back to her child form...I can only come up with she used up too much energy or something...
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Old 2008-10-30, 01:03   Link #20
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because it's plot convenient
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