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View Poll Results: Byukugan or sharingan?
Byukugan 407 35.51%
Sharingan 647 56.46%
Neither 92 8.03%
Voters: 1146. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-10-26, 17:57   Link #2021
Cub-Sama
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Originally Posted by Xemn View Post
LOL!

When Itachi said your best friend, I think he meant a human bond. But good idea, lol!
Loop holes my dear friend, loop holes...in fact I think the breaking of my nintendo wii would be enough
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Old 2008-10-26, 19:17   Link #2022
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No 1: By opposing someone else's opinion in a public forum, you are automatically doing what is known as "presenting an argument". Note as well that this is a debatable topic. It's a VERSUS topic. The title is: "Byakugan VS Sharingan".

No. 2: Yes. I actually love arguing. I like making people look stupid. It's fun.

No 3: I did not present 'derogatory insults' (this is a form of tortology, by the way; you're pretty much saying "Insultingly lewd/base insults"). I think what you're trying to say is that I presented 'derogatory comments'. But apparently when your small, insufficient vocabulary is stretched as far as the word 'derogatory' you begin to use the word out of context. The only time I had insulted you in my previous posts was when I called you 'stupid'.

However, the way I used this word, 'stupid', may be described as many things, including, but not limited to: ''unnecessary', 'uncalled for', and 'in bad taste', but it was not in any sense, 'derogatory', which means 'base', 'lewd', 'salacious', and the likes.

Anyway: I'm going to just move on to another topic now, seeing as you've pretty much strayed form the original argument, and are pointlessly rambling on. The original idea was: "Byakugan's 360 degree vision is useless, seeing as others are well able to cope without it, and even avoid danger from their blind sopts without it as well."

You've moved on to: "Byakugan as a whole is not useless, seeing as it can not ONLY see 360 degrees, but is also able to, (And I quote: ) support a deadly hand-to-hand combat style that can dispatch someone in a single blow by aiming at their internal organs that are tied in with one's chakra circulatory system, and is also able to pinpoint multiple targets simulateously and without having to move one's eyes or head at all and effortlessly scout and track individuals."

At this point, the argument now falls through and is no longer what I was originally debating, and therefore I see no reason to continue bashing my head against a thick, unthinking, unrelentingly stubborn wall.

I'm sure we all agree that whilest the Byakugan's 360 degree vision is pretty cool, it has been shown amply that all the more skilled ninjas in the series do not need to have 360 degree vision in order to protect their blind spots. This was the root of the argument. Case closed. God...
So you admit to being a jerk? I'm glad we got that out of the way. But it still seems to me like your assumption of what is useful and what isn't with the Byakugan is just your own stubborn and subjective point of view. So you want to say i'm stubborn as opposed to you? *shrugs* I guess you can call god again on that one.
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Old 2008-10-26, 20:55   Link #2023
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Originally Posted by Cub-Sama View Post
Uchiha are master of genjutsu, any competent sharingan user can create high level genjutsu with the bat of an eye...literally, also mimicry, fire and genjutsu is what the sharingan is known for, the eyes even look like hypnotism wheels when they spin what better hint is that.

Also I would rather have the sharingan cos I just have to have buy a kitten raise it to be my best friend and kill it off to gain the Mangekyou Sharingan! Also with the sharingan get a mirror put yourself into a fantasy and drift away.
You are speaking LITERALLY about three out of all the the Uchiha. How do I know this? Because you only have three Uchiha on which to base that theory. And the fact that the three you're basing it on all have MS means that they were exceptions, not the norm. Most Uchiha couldn't do the things you're claiming. Thus Uchihas are not masters of genjutsu.

A master of genjustu would still be able to cast a man in one without having to make contact with his eyes. This is why Might Gai was able to successfully fight Itachi. I would have liked to see how well and how far Guy could have gone with Itachi using his innovative method of taijutsu. You may even argue that because Itachi's clone cast Naruto into a genjutsu with his finger that I might be wrong.

No, the fact is that Itachi was basically controlling Naruto's focus through hypnotism until he had him. Had Naruto learned to fight Itachi by reading his footwork he too would have been able to avoid the genjutsu.
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Old 2008-10-26, 21:02   Link #2024
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Sharingan i think has a better ability than byakugan
Copy opponent>seeing their chakra network
But i mean some moves u cant copy and so normal sharingan would be noob...thats y u need mangekyo.
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Old 2008-10-27, 05:36   Link #2025
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Originally Posted by Killer Bee View Post
You are speaking LITERALLY about three out of all the the Uchiha. How do I know this? Because you only have three Uchiha on which to base that theory. And the fact that the three you're basing it on all have MS means that they were exceptions, not the norm. Most Uchiha couldn't do the things you're claiming. Thus Uchihas are not masters of genjutsu.

A master of genjustu would still be able to cast a man in one without having to make contact with his eyes. This is why Might Gai was able to successfully fight Itachi. I would have liked to see how well and how far Guy could have gone with Itachi using his innovative method of taijutsu. You may even argue that because Itachi's clone cast Naruto into a genjutsu with his finger that I might be wrong.

No, the fact is that Itachi was basically controlling Naruto's focus through hypnotism until he had him. Had Naruto learned to fight Itachi by reading his footwork he too would have been able to avoid the genjutsu.
The Sharingan also is capable of a unique brand of hypnosis that involves suggesting actions and thoughts to the opponent through simple eye contact. When used in conjunction with the other aspects of the Sharingan, this allows the user to perfectly mimic every move their opponent makes, even before they do, making it appear as if the user can see the future. More advanced Sharingan users can take the hypnosis ability even further by tricking or even trapping their opponent within an illusion. The potency of the Sharingan's illusion is dependent on the user's knowledge and skill with implementing Genjutsus. ~ Entry from Narutowiki

Two tomoe will also allow the ninja to pierce Genjutsu and see the surrounding reality for what it really is.
Three tomoe also grants the Uchiha the ability to do Genjutsu and hypnosis after locking eyes with an enemy. This can be used to cause their opponent to do an attack of the Uchiha's choosing. This hypnosis can also be used as a Genjutsu counter, which is the ability to turn a Genjutsu spell back upon the original caster without the requirement of forming any handseals.
~ Entry from Leafninja

The sharingan users are masters of genjutsu and this is shown by Sasuke and Itachi prime examples of the Uchiha clans power also Amaterasu and Tsuyokomi are perfect for the Uchiha because it embodies what they are known for: 'Genjutsu' and 'Fire jutsu'. Also seeing how Itachi could create a genjutsu from someone looking at his finger it may have been a technique passed down in the Uchiha clan.
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Old 2008-10-27, 12:08   Link #2026
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Byakugan all the way. the advantages of being able to see through things (clothing) far outweighs any advantage the sharingan has to offer for me. And I don't get into much fights either so the sharingan's ability to see through jutsus will not have beneficial for me.

Can you imagine what Jiraiya would've been willing to do for a Byakugan ?
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Old 2008-10-27, 15:17   Link #2027
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Originally Posted by Cub-Sama View Post
The Sharingan also is capable of a unique brand of hypnosis that involves suggesting actions and thoughts to the opponent through simple eye contact. When used in conjunction with the other aspects of the Sharingan, this allows the user to perfectly mimic every move their opponent makes, even before they do, making it appear as if the user can see the future. More advanced Sharingan users can take the hypnosis ability even further by tricking or even trapping their opponent within an illusion. The potency of the Sharingan's illusion is dependent on the user's knowledge and skill with implementing Genjutsus. ~ Entry from Narutowiki

Two tomoe will also allow the ninja to pierce Genjutsu and see the surrounding reality for what it really is.
Three tomoe also grants the Uchiha the ability to do Genjutsu and hypnosis after locking eyes with an enemy. This can be used to cause their opponent to do an attack of the Uchiha's choosing. This hypnosis can also be used as a Genjutsu counter, which is the ability to turn a Genjutsu spell back upon the original caster without the requirement of forming any handseals.
~ Entry from Leafninja

The sharingan users are masters of genjutsu and this is shown by Sasuke and Itachi prime examples of the Uchiha clans power also Amaterasu and Tsuyokomi are perfect for the Uchiha because it embodies what they are known for: 'Genjutsu' and 'Fire jutsu'. Also seeing how Itachi could create a genjutsu from someone looking at his finger it may have been a technique passed down in the Uchiha clan.
Uchiha are not masters of genjutsu. I disagree. Just because you have a M-16 rifle and I only have a 9mm pistol doesn't make you a master of firearms. It just means you have a more powerful weapon. Still, with more skill and experience I can still win with my weaker weapon. Its no different with the comparison of the Uchiha and the Kurama clan, even though the Kurama clan are more skilled at using genjutsu as it is their specific bloodline trait:

The Kurama clan is a clan of extremely skilled genjutsu users, introduced in the anime. This talent in genjutsu is due to the unnamed kekkei genkai that the clan possesses. However, once every few generations, a member of the clan will be born with such enormous skill in genjutsu that their illusions can actually produce tangible effects that occur in reality. The clan member's talent in the field is such that their genjutsu is completely irresistible, so much so that only knocking a person unconscious has any chance of awakening them from it. Furthermore, the genjutsu is so powerful that it causes the brain to make anything that happens to the victim within the genjutsu physically real, allowing the clan member to potentially kill their opponents with genjutsu. ~ Naruto Wikia
Spoiler for manga:
You know ... they say that every human is capable of total memory recall, total control of their body including blood flow, breathing, heart rhythm, rate of healing, etc, but how many people can actually do it? In fact Itachi and Sasuke wouldn't even have their MS were it not for Madara's intervention. He taught Itachi how to get to that level. And Sasuke's MS was awakened by Itachi.
Spoiler for manga:
As far as Itachi's finger genjutsu, it wasn't a genjutsu at all. It was hypnotism. If you can control some one's focus you can hypnotize them, whether it be with your eyes, a swinging pocket watch or yes ... a finger. And once hypnotized, Itachi simply manipulated Naruto's focus into his own eyes.

In contrast, the Kurama clan members don't have to have an opponent look at anything to cast them in a genjutsu. The Kurama genjutsu is second to Uchiha genjutsu only in terms of time manipulation. Advanced Uchiha can use Tsukuyomi to make a second seem like 72 hours once eye contact is made. That's the only advantage. Advanced Kurama can make genjutsu tangible and therefore real without eye contact or any contact for that matter.

Uchiha tsukuyomi is more efficient for interrogation because it happens so quickly.

Kurama bloodline is more devastating because it can catch multiple opponents in a single genjutsu and torture or kill them all in the physical world. It basically lets the user's will become and control physical reality.

No comparison really.

Last edited by Hunter; 2008-10-27 at 20:36.
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Old 2008-10-27, 16:25   Link #2028
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Originally Posted by LeoThugs View Post
Byakugan all the way. the advantages of being able to see through things (clothing) far outweighs any advantage the sharingan has to offer for me. And I don't get into much fights either so the sharingan's ability to see through jutsus will not have beneficial for me.

Can you imagine what Jiraiya would've been willing to do for a Byakugan ?
Oooo...That would have been the tie-breaker for me, but then did you consider with the sharingan you can just "ask" a girl to take off her clothes instead of being all peeping tom like.

You could even hypnotise the whole girls swimming team to think your room is the girls locker room...top that one Byakugan!
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Old 2008-10-27, 16:26   Link #2029
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Oooo...That would have been the tie-breaker for me, but then did you consider with the sharingan you can just "ask" a girl to take off her clothes instead of being all peeping tom like.

You could even hypnotise the whole girls swimming team to think your room is the girls locker room...top that one Byakugan!
Easy: I'm too Lazy to think of a good excuse to get them to strip. I'd rather just have a good look.
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Old 2008-10-27, 17:28   Link #2030
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Well may be its just the creative streak in me, coming up up with all those ideas is half the fun!! Not denying theres anything wrong with a good look, but just imagine all the cosplay scenarios one could have etc. The only limit to the fun would be the amount chakra you have.

Anyways,

Killer_Bee and Cub-Sama both bring up good points, though Im not too familiar with the Kurama clan, are they in the manga? or only the anime fillers?

Also with the whole firearms analogy, maybe with the Uchia/Sharingan users perhaps one wouldnt want to call them master of Genjutsu (firearms) but at least masters of Genjutsu using the sense of sight (i.e. specifically rifles). Also one could also claim them to be masters of counter-Genjutsu, id say its pretty hard to pull a genjutsu over a shaingan user - as the tome in normal sharingan form is designed to see their world for what it really is.
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Old 2008-10-27, 17:37   Link #2031
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is this even a issue lol sharingan or byukugan omg lol xP
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Old 2008-10-27, 18:16   Link #2032
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Originally Posted by Killer Bee View Post
Uchiha are not masters of genjutsu. I disagree. Just because you have a M-16 rifle and I only have a 9mm pistol doesn't make you a master of firearms. It just means you have a more powerful weapon. Still, with more skill and experience I can still win with my weaker weapon. Its no different with the comparison of the Uchiha and the Kurama clan, even though the Kurama clan are more skilled at using genjutsu as it is their specific bloodline trait:

The Kurama clan is a clan of extremely skilled genjutsu users, introduced in the anime. This talent in genjutsu is due to the unnamed kekkei genkai that the clan possesses. However, once every few generations, a member of the clan will be born with such enormous skill in genjutsu that their illusions can actually produce tangible effects that occur in reality. The clan member's talent in the field is such that their genjutsu is completely irresistible, so much so that only knocking a person unconscious has any chance of awakening them from it. Furthermore, the genjutsu is so powerful that it causes the brain to make anything that happens to the victim within the genjutsu physically real, allowing the clan member to potentially kill their opponents with genjutsu. ~ Naruto Wikia
Spoiler for manga:


You know ... they say that every human is capable of total memory recall, total control of their body including blood flow, breathing, heart rhythm, rate of healing, etc, but how many people can actually do it? In fact Itachi and Sasuke wouldn't even have their MS were it not for Madara's intervention. He taught Itachi how to get to that level. And Sasuke's MS was awakened by Itachi.
Spoiler for manga:
As far as Itachi's finger genjutsu, it wasn't a genjutsu at all. It was hypnotism. If you can control some one's focus you can hypnotize them, whether it be with your eyes, a swinging pocket watch or yes ... a finger. And once hypnotized, Itachi simply manipulated Naruto's focus into his own eyes.

In contrast, the Kurama clan members don't have to have an opponent look at anything to cast them in a genjutsu. The Kurama genjutsu is second to Uchiha genjutsu only in terms of time manipulation. Advanced Uchiha can use Tsukuyomi to make a second seem like 72 hours once eye contact is made. That's the only advantage. Advanced Kurama can make genjutsu tangible and therefore real without eye contact or any contact for that matter.

Uchiha tsukuyomi is more efficient for interrogation because it happens so quickly.

Kurama bloodline is more devastating because it can catch multiple opponents in a single genjutsu and torture or kill them all in the physical world. It basically lets the user's will become and control physical reality.

No comparison really.
1. Filler making everything that happened fake because in the manga, after Naruto recovered he didn't stay in Konoha and do missions he went straight with Jiraiya so it never happened and so the Kurama clan does not exist unless they appear in the manga.

2. Filler kekkei genkais don't compare to manga facts, none of the databooks say anything on them as far as I know:
Spoiler for manga:


3. You are confusing the term 'masters' with 'the best' I could be a master at playing Halo because I mastered using the weapons and terrain, doesn't mean I am the absolute best. I am saying that the Uchiha are masters because they are high level genjutsu users, you said before Kurenai was a master of genjutsu yet only using a sharingan jutsu that took no effort on Itachi's part he turned the tides of the genjutsu. Like Itachi was 8 when he mastered the sharingan meaning he learnt how to use all the aspects of it, if someone is better at him than using it doesn't mean he is no longer a master of the sharingan. If I am wrong correct me

4. Utakata is a Genjutsu technique utilized by Akatsuki member Uchiha Itachi. Itachi will start this technique by using only one finger on his right hand. His target does not have to look into his eyes, a glance at the hand itself will be enough. Once inside the illusion, he can control the visions the ninja sees. This illusion can also be used to play on the fears of the target, causing them to see and hear those who they care about degrade them. ~ Entry from Leafninja

The finger thing is a genjutsu, it is not hypnotism into changing their focus to make them look into their eyes, I do not know for sure but it might just be the case of creating a stream of chakra from the finger to the eyes invading the body creating a genjutsu.
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Last edited by Hunter; 2008-10-27 at 20:40.
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Old 2008-10-28, 13:53   Link #2033
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I'm slow in replying because every time that I do, I get an infraction and I just got told I would be banned next time. I'm not exposing things on purpose or maliciously. I just get into these debates and have ZERO experience with having to watch what I write on the net.

I've never had to use a "spoiler" button and wasn't even aware of it until the other day(first infraction).

So after getting a better understanding of what exactly I did wrong, I guess its only safe for guys like me to post on manga topics. Either that or brush up on my proof reading skills.

I do sincerely apologize though.
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Old 2008-11-02, 12:29   Link #2034
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I honestly don`t think Byukugan and Sharingan can better one another.

I believe that it counts on the person that has it. Not the actual blood line limit. Example : Madara has the most advanced sharigan, right? (Please correct me if wrong)
He is what? Around 90 years old? (Again, please correct me if I am wrong :P)
The one hyuuga that is most advanced in Byukugan is Neji. He is what? 16?

Also, Sasuke went under Oroochimaru`s training, and has curse mark. That must help him with his sharigan training, right? Neji only got Guy... and Guy is mostly focused on Lee, (lol).

In the end, I believe it comes down to the person, and his methods of training. Not necessarily the kekkei genkai.


( Mmm, *does not like arguing, but must put my point in* )
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Old 2008-11-03, 19:04   Link #2035
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This thread been going on for almost 5 years. Many point of view has changed over the years.
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Old 2008-11-04, 03:31   Link #2036
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Speaking of Sharingan versus Byakugan, I don't know about you guys but I felt a little betrayed when the supposed Neji versus Sasuke duel in the Chuunin exams didn't happen. Kishimoto gave us quite a tease when he wrote that "confrontation" scene between the two characters. Sasuke was genuinely intrigued with three rookie ninjas, Gaara, Lee and Neji but he only managed to fight Gaara and Lee. I personally want to see that happen some time soon just to prove which bloodline limit is better. Forget Sasuke and Naruto, I want to see a Neji and Sasuke fight.
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Old 2008-11-06, 17:45   Link #2037
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Speaking of Sharingan versus Byakugan, I don't know about you guys but I felt a little betrayed when the supposed Neji versus Sasuke duel in the Chuunin exams didn't happen. Kishimoto gave us quite a tease when he wrote that "confrontation" scene between the two characters. Sasuke was genuinely intrigued with three rookie ninjas, Gaara, Lee and Neji but he only managed to fight Gaara and Lee. I personally want to see that happen some time soon just to prove which bloodline limit is better. Forget Sasuke and Naruto, I want to see a Neji and Sasuke fight.
It would've been a good fight at that point in the series, but as things stand now, Sasuke is wayy too god-modded, whereas Neji barely gets any screentime. I doubt that Neji could even hold up a finger to stop Sasuke at this stage of the series. Not to mention that a good reason for these two to fight seems implausible. Neji would most likely just stand down to allow Naruto to fight Sasuke.
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Old 2008-11-07, 04:16   Link #2038
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It would've been a good fight at that point in the series, but as things stand now, Sasuke is wayy too god-modded, whereas Neji barely gets any screentime. I doubt that Neji could even hold up a finger to stop Sasuke at this stage of the series. Not to mention that a good reason for these two to fight seems implausible. Neji would most likely just stand down to allow Naruto to fight Sasuke.
Spoiler for manga:

Last edited by Hunter; 2008-11-07 at 12:22.
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Old 2008-11-07, 14:24   Link #2039
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Spoiler for manga:
Spoiler for manga:
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Old 2008-11-07, 14:31   Link #2040
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