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Old 2007-08-28, 07:10   Link #1661
Mirificus
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Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Now I'm left wondering what the Kleenex were used for...

*badum-badum bing!*

Narf!
You're terrible for posting that. I'm terrible for having considered posting that
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Old 2007-08-28, 22:44   Link #1662
arkxkra
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if i want to post some window xp theme software where i should post? or i cant post here??
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Old 2007-10-06, 12:42   Link #1663
~ Lawliet ~
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An absolutely amazing anime. Great story and characters followed by great art and sound.
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Old 2007-11-22, 14:41   Link #1664
blitz1/2
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I plan to write a Kanon fanfiction about what may happen after the events of Kanon. But I haven't decided which girl Yuuichi starts out with or end with.

(it may differ a bit from the anime where he ended up with just Ayu)

Look forward to it next week. Any ideas are welcome, (just PM me)
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Old 2007-11-25, 10:11   Link #1665
Setsukyie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
I plan to write a Kanon fanfiction about what may happen after the events of Kanon. But I haven't decided which girl Yuuichi starts out with or end with.

(it may differ a bit from the anime where he ended up with just Ayu)

Look forward to it next week. Any ideas are welcome, (just PM me)

Looking forward to it..

I wonder if you can write something about Makoto...
yea, a bit hard..right...

good luck then~
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Old 2008-04-28, 19:11   Link #1666
ireact
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Hi, everyone! I'm new here. I have some Kanon thoughts, praises, frustrations and musings. And apologies for originally posting this in the 2002 thread.

I've never played a dating sim/visual novel, but there is a scene in the anime "Welcome to the NHK!" where a game designer explains the appeal of these stories. It's mainly that they feature women who are attracted to the male protagonist for no apparent reason, who approach the boy lead with pure intentions, and give off the impression that the entire lives of these female characters revolve around romantically obssessing over the male lead and performing flattering gestures towards him. Basically, entertainment for emotionally arrested boys who can't handle the thought of dealing with women who have their own needs, hopes, insecurities, issues and existences beyond devotion to the boyfriend.

Good Impression

With that in mind, "Kanon" didn't strike me as anything but an object of mockery when my weekly anime group put it on the big screen. However, I was intrigued with the first two episodes. The animation was striking; the character designs were sharp-lined yet softly designed, the colours were splendidly rich, and I really liked Yuiichi. Admittedly, the voice actor played Kyon, so that might have been residual affection, but what I liked best about him was that he behaved like a real person. Confronted with Ayu's bizarre antics and neediness, Yuiichi was exasperated and critical, and also displayed an admirable nature as he made her pay for her stolen baked goods. He had a terrific sense of sarcastic humour when facing off with Kitagawa. While he was surrounded by characters I would generally find sickeningly 'cute', Yuiichi's reactions were believable and likable; he wasn't going to stand for Makoto's practical jokes and could stand up for himself. He wasn't going to let Ayu's hysterics control him. He had a mischevious sense of humour in taking Ayu to see horror movies. And when Makoto dropped the cat off the bridge, Yuiichi's outrage and disgust really made me respect the character. He enjoyed the companionship of the girls, but he wasn't the stammering, unassertive character I'd always thought dating sim leads would be. Admittedly, Makoto, Ayu, Nayuki and Shiori were all very fanciful characters; relentlessly cheerful, hyperactive adolescent girls, but Yuiichi's sardonic humour and biting wit matched with his thoughtfulness and honour balanced out the series.

I really liked the first ten episodes best. I was intrigued by Yuiichi's apparent memory losses, the flashbacks that he apparently didn't remember, the mystery of why he couldn't remember his past with these girls and how it related to the present. But I was dreading what I thought would be inevitable in this sort of story; the female characters fawning all over Yuiichi, being helpless and needy, revealing their backstories where Yuiichi is the only person worth dealing with in the whole of their lives. The sort of flattering fantasies adolescent boys dream up before learning to see women as human beings.

That Girl's a Fox!

However, the Makoto arc was handled so charmingly, disarmingly and somewhat misdirectingly that I was completely won over. I loved the battle of pranks between Yuiichi and Makoto, and the way his regard from her went from irritation to concern really took us through Yuiichi's depths. And as Makoto became the needy, feeble female figure whom the boy gets to take care of and comfort, I found that the show also managed to render this in a sensitive manner. The revelation of who Makoto is and where she comes from is rather pathetic. Giving up one's life and one's memory for a few short moments (weeks?) with a boy? It's such a lonely, desperate, sad gesture, and Yuiichi isn't moved or flattered by it; he's repulsed. He doesn't see Makoto as a more appealing person for it. She's a fox-cub who sacrificed her life for empty, pointless sentiment. But Yuiichi, rather than condemning her for it, takes pity on her. He spends whatever time he can with Makoto, engaged in activities he doesn't actually care for (like reading romance manga). When she starts to recall her past life, he *screams* at her not to, desperate to let Makoto keep what she gave her life for -- a human existence -- even if she won't have it for very long. The relationship between the two is more sibling fondness than romantic, and when Makoto expresses the desire to marry Yuiichi, it's not a moment of romantic tension as much as it is an expression of all the life and experience that Makoto will never live to have. I was stunned by how this anime series tackled the task of rendering the fixtures of this genre, but rendered them in a way that showed them for their tragedy, their horror and yet a fragile beauty within. There's a bitter irony in that Yuiichi's kindness proves Makoto's longings were for a decent person, but it really wasn't worth it. And what I liked best was that these episodes ultimately express that making your entire life revolve around expressing flattering sentiments to one particular individual is a pitiful and unfortunate act.

This seems repetitive...

The Mai arc hits similar notes, revealing that Mai's demons are the result of her long-held wish that Yuiichi had stayed with her. Again, the desire to make one's life revolve around one person isn't the fluffy, flattering nonsense some animes would say it is. Instead, it conjures up monstrosities that can only be defeated through awareness of what they are. However, the Mai-arc made me *really* nervous; this was the second girl who'd lived a life where the only person she valued was Yuiichi. This repetition suggested the disturbing idea that the series really was, after all, going to be basically about how women obsess over Yuiichi.

And damn and blast, that was basically the Shiori-arc, which I felt really torpedoed and burned almost every ounce of goodwill the series had built up with me. I thought Shiori was an appalling character. She's ridiculous, even if one sets aside the series' bizarre assertion that while she's energetic and cheery now, she's very ill and will drop dead after her birthday. The revelation that Shiori shows up at school because she has a fantasy of living out mundane events with a sister who considers Shiori dead to her was laughable. The fact that Shiori values this cruel sister's approval makes Shiori rather pathetic, and not in the tragic sense that Makoto achieved. Worse, however, is Shiori's behaviour with Yuiichi. Ordering food she didn't care for because she was determined to eat whatever Yuiichi ate? Rather than being sweet, that speaks more to Shiori's lack of any personality over her own. And the idea that Shiori's thoughts of Yuiichi kept her from cutting or commiting suicide is incredibly condescending and marginalizes what is a very serious psychological situation in real-life. I felt betrayed by the Shiori-arc -- "Kanon" had basically done the dating sim cliches after all; serving up a girl who exists only to fawn all over a boy protagonist, and calling this a healthy or admirable relationship.

Although considering what followed...

Then came Ayu. Dear God. Yuiichi's relationship had been more condescending older brother to an undisciplined sibling than anything else. The sudden switch to romantic entanglement was incredibly unconvincing. Possibly the worst scene in this arc was where Yuiichi said he didn't want Ayu to see him as his first love because first relationships never work out. This only highlighted how their previous interactions had been more fondly antagonistic than romantic. Seing Yuiichi blush and fret over Ayu when he'd once been a likably sardonic character was a horrific degredation of his character. And also, I realize the series insists that Yuiichi and Ayu are the same age, but Ayu is characterized with such immaturity and drawn to look so much younger than Yuiichi that seeing them make out felt vaguely illegal and tremendously unsettling.

The show regained some of its original stature with the (re)appearance of Makoto. It was nice to know that something of her survived and lived on in *some* form. I know it wasn't the Makoto we saw in earlier episodes, but it brought a measure of comfort to the tragic end of Makoto's story. However, the ending of the series is founded firmly on the idea that Yuiichi and Ayu have some sort of layered, depth-filled romance that is in no way the relationship that was actually onscreen. And the explanations for Yuiichi's amnesia and Ayu's presence throughout the series given where she 'really' was the whole time were... vague, unsatisfying, confusing, uninformative and I basically got lost. The series ends happily, but I couldn't understand at all how everyone turned out so happily. And ultimately, at the end, I found that Yuiichi no longer *reacted* like the sarcastic, sharp, kind and *believable* character he'd been at the beginning of the series. His reactions to the (return?) of Makoto and the apparent nature of Ayu are incredibly muted. He doesn't really seem to find it that odd that he spent so much time hanging out with a person who'd apparently been lying comatose all that time; he barely acknowledges the impossibility of it. He seems rather unmoved by the (inexplicable) happy endings everyone seems to get in the last episode.

... I really liked the first ten episodes of this series, but then I got alarmed, and then appalled and then confused and lost and baffled. I admired the artistic direction of the series, and found the animation beautiful, and there are a good number of episodes that are quite wonderful. However, as a whole, I find myself seeing the series as a valiant but failed effort at... something or other.

Was playing the game a necessity for understanding what the hell I was watching at the end of the series?

- Ibrahim Ng
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Old 2008-06-17, 21:56   Link #1667
Jiggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ireact View Post
I've never played a dating sim/visual novel, but there is a scene in the anime "Welcome to the NHK!" where a game designer explains the appeal of these stories. It's mainly that they feature women who are attracted to the male protagonist for no apparent reason, who approach the boy lead with pure intentions, and give off the impression that the entire lives of these female characters revolve around romantically obssessing over the male lead and performing flattering gestures towards him. Basically, entertainment for emotionally arrested boys who can't handle the thought of dealing with women who have their own needs, hopes, insecurities, issues and existences beyond devotion to the boyfriend.
Well... Hearing this just may have prematurely killed Kanon for you, since your post reads to me like you held these expectations going in and looked for details that might confirm you were right. If you think Kanon is proof of this concept, or any Key production for that matter, then you may want to watch another visual novel or dating sim anime for some perspective. :P There are certainly shallow and dependent females to be found, but I wouldn't say they're here.



Anyway, uh... hmm. I'm not sure how much of this discussion would be considered spoilery, so I'll play safe and spoiler it all. >_> Plus I have a lot to say, so it'll look unwieldy and huge and all that. <_< Anyway, away we go!


Spoiler:
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Old 2008-09-01, 14:05   Link #1668
ireact
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"Welcome to the NHK" also has a delightful scene where the dating sim designers Sato and Yamazaki try to come up with a dating sim girl.

Sato and Yamazaki conceive of a girl who is a childhood friend, a classmate, a neighbour, a maid, a ghost, an alien, and a reincarnation of a fox from the future, and is also a robot. They consider that the girl must also be feeble and weak and in need of the protagonist's tender care because she injured herself protecting him and will take years to recover. They proceed to whip up a sketch, and the result is a hilariously hideous character design.

"Kanon" only lacks a robot. Eventually, Yamazaki and Sato are forced to contemplate the lack of inspiration, creativity, and the appalling misogyny and chauvinism of the clichés they're falling back on....

Is there any particular reason why Yuiichi is drawn in a (relatively) unexaggerated manner, while almost every female character is drawn as highly childlike, to the point where there doesn't seem to be a single female character who looks older than the age of 12?

I'm sure it can't possibly be because the designers and writers can only envision women who are overemotional, fragile creatures who fly into hysterics or burst into tears at the drop of a hat...

- Ibrahim Ng
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Old 2008-10-25, 08:55   Link #1669
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Old 2008-11-09, 10:50   Link #1670
Exar Kun
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I've been trying to come up with a design of the Minase residence and so far I've got something like this:



This is the first floor. On the second floor we see 6 doors (4 opposite the stairs and 2 on the same side). Looking from the stirs perspective the rightmost is Yuuichi's room, next Nayuki's room, Makoto's room and finally Ayu's room. We don't see what's behind the two doors on the opposite side.

Anyone has some thoughts on this?? I'm sure it was based on a real house like the city, but I haven't found any photos of it.
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Old 2008-11-09, 12:59   Link #1671
FatPianoBoy
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By Japanese standards, that house is huge...
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Old 2008-11-10, 04:05   Link #1672
Littm
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Oh common, it isn't so really huge. But by their big overpopulated cities like Tokyo standarts - surely, it's more then huge.
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Old 2008-11-11, 02:09   Link #1673
ZephyrLeanne
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Well, on the house size, I am NOT surprised. Why?

Kanon is set in a 雪下の北国 - Snowy north. This refers to Hokkaido. The trams give away everything - this gotta be Sapporo. And by Sapporo standards, this is small. Really. Land is dirt-cheap there. The prefectural government is giving away plots of land there to attract businesses!

Though where I live, Tokyo, this is not possible. BTW, I live near enough to the school featured in CLANNAD - and had studied in there before.

Back to main topic.
Overall, after watching Kanon, I feel that this is quite unusual for Key as this is not the usual harem setup at all. It's more like Yuuichi is the manager of a childcare! No, really. The characters all look... short. So short, Shima Katsuki of CLANNAD looks tall compared to all of them (except, obviously, Yuuichi and Kaori Misaka)

The setting is excellent too, other than the fact that it can't snow that much in Tokyo, especially the 'old city' area (which means, not the West Tokyo/Tama bedtown area). Worse still, in Osaka, it rarely snows.

Each arc was perfectly covered, except for Nayuki. Needed more semi-zombie/sleepy Darth Vader with blue hair. Oh, and how do you eat Ice-cream at temperatures of sub-zero?
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Old 2008-11-11, 11:28   Link #1674
Littm
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I live near enough to the school featured in CLANNAD - and had studied in there before.
Have some photos ?
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Old 2008-11-11, 23:03   Link #1675
ZephyrLeanne
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Originally Posted by Littm View Post
Have some photos ?
Oops, I meant LIVED there before... which means I'm not there anymore. Besides, I'm not even a local there (come on, why else is my English at least passable...!?)

Anyways, the school is right smack in Tokyo, to be exact, Setagaya -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setagaya,_Tokyo


You'll never get houses of the size in Kanon anywhere in the yellow zone on the map - that's older/central Tokyo for you. But the green area? Anything goes!

And, no, no photos. But you can search for the school:
国立筑波大学附属駒場中学校
(Komaba High School - affiliated to Tsukuba National University)

It's right opposite Tokyo University (another university altogether).
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Old 2008-11-12, 01:15   Link #1676
Littm
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ShimatheKat, thanks. Interesting info.
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Old 2008-11-13, 04:57   Link #1677
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ShimatheKat, thanks. Interesting info.
Indeed an interesting info.
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Old 2008-11-18, 05:16   Link #1678
Tiran86
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Kanon 2006 is an amazing series. I'd give it a 9.5/10. I don't consider it a perfect 10, even though it currently holds the number 9 spot in my top 10 list.
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Old 2008-12-06, 20:23   Link #1679
Penpa
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Is Kanon continuing past volume 6??? I don't know if someone has answered this before.
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Old 2008-12-14, 12:29   Link #1680
Vegard Aune
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Is Kanon continuing past volume 6??? I don't know if someone has answered this before.
No, Kanon is 24 episodes long, and volume 6 is the last DVD. Not like they have anything more to add to the story, anyway.
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