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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 8 Rating
Perfect 10 44 40.74%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 36 33.33%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 12.96%
7 out of 10 : Good 10 9.26%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.85%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.85%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-11-20, 19:57   Link #61
fict_ticious
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Well, that episode made me eat my words in my comment on 7. They followed through with the whole thing in episode 8.

Next up is obligatory summer holiday episode. Will we get a ghost story/test of courage in addition to this?
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Old 2008-11-20, 20:26   Link #62
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frubam View Post
Yeah the emphasis was placed on what Ami said she told Kitamura, but she also, just before saying that, said Ryuuji no longer cared about her, and he left Taiga for Ami. It could be said what Ami's intentions were in telling her that, which is to crush[that's her word(translated) in ep 6 preview] her emotionally.
The problem is that Taiga is calling Ryuuji a dog before becoming friends. She just abuses him and considering how others see that relationship other thing it is not 'right' as well. They just eventually learn to ignore it as both seem happy, one can abuse, the other can suffer from it - perfect sadist and masochist relationship. Though it is still out of norms it makes them happy so whatever.

Its funny that Ami thinks Taiga likes Ryuuji, and could be actually right (girl intuition anyone) maybe more right than those who think she likes Kitamura...

And yep she is a bitch. But so is Taiga... and I happen to think that Taiga is a bigger one on the way she treats Ryuuji and what seh did to ami in the pool. Even if Ami took it ok, normally doing that to a girl before crowd of people who are from your schooland classroom do not lead to good results. Worser than just saying that the one you love do not care about you.

Well Ami is also Taiga's personal nemesis and you cannot enjoy that specially knowing how Taiga goes over the board using Ryuuji.

I mean put Ryuuji and Louise together, and there would be no whipping, no explosions and alsmot no screaming (she is still Louise). Meaning that Ryuuji is a really nice guy which makes every Taiga's bitchy act on him look more evil than lets say on Saito (who usually deserves majority of it anyway).

Chibi I already ecplained why. Basically the difference between the scenes in ep 6/7 and the 8th pool scene look too random.

And no randomness is not good. Look at ZnT. It is full of randomness like characters appearing without a reason, loosing magical abilities without a reason, moving to another city without a reason, returning back from a war without ANY reason and so on... ZnT is full of randomness and I think you would would agree with me that it does not make the show better.

It is better to avoid randomness and inconsistency in directing, even if it became a sort of visiting-card of JC Staff lately.
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Old 2008-11-20, 20:31   Link #63
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ooo nice episode as always.

Next ep should be good. Taiga with badminton racket. What awesomeness. Badminton!! Woot! rofl.
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Old 2008-11-20, 20:34   Link #64
typhonsentra
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Wow, Crunchyroll's been good about getting this show up early lately.
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Old 2008-11-20, 20:38   Link #65
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Some people are just not seeing what other people see as emotional cues and shifts as the series develops. I don't know if that's cultural, experiential, their subtlety skills, or what.
Agreed.

The subtle stuff that I sensed so far made me like this series. There's quite a fair bit of things here that can't be taken literally. I'm surprised myself by how some of the comments here can be so polarised. Maybe it's really a clash of cultures that caused this.

For the info, I haven't read the novels yet, and staying away from novel spoilers, though I do planned to start them once this series ends, to find out what's skipped, and what's different.
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Old 2008-11-20, 20:39   Link #66
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
frubam, did Ami knew that Taiga cannot swim? I think she didn't thats why the whole thing is not as bad (yeah a joke but it happens, as if you haven't been pushed into a pool/water at least once). While Taiga pulling off her bikini was intended and knowing full cruelty of that. they are bit different so you cant compare those two acts.

Too bad that some interesting bits were ignored oh well, can't put everything into it, I guess. Specilly not with such ridiculous pace.

Mind you taht even in anime-terms such the way Taiga is acting looks weird and rather abusing to others. Remember that Ami questioned why actually Ryuuji allows Taiga so much. Meaning taht she thinks Taiga is going overboard and yet Ryuuji allows her which she wonders why. So even in anime standards Taiga's acts are not nice.
Exactly what I think.

I don't know how people here can compare Taiga's acts to Ami's acts. Ami plays jokes like a bitchy immature little girl, while her jokes may be a bit harmful they're exactly what you expect a normal bitchy girl would do. I've seen girls cat fight like she does, and I've seen 2 faced girls exactly like her.

However in Taiga's case, throwing things at people on the diving board is amazingly dangerous... not only that, she also rips Ami's bikini off and throws it a long way. If this happened to any normal girl, she would have left the pool/room in tears a long time ago.... All I'm going to say is, Ami's acts are what a normal bitch would do. Taiga's acts are just completely utterly outrageous. She should be put into jail.

8/10 because I'm getting annoyed by Taiga's assholeing and Ryuuji being such a pushover. However Ami hitting on Ryu and Minorin's sleeping was the highlights of the episode
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Old 2008-11-20, 21:03   Link #67
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Like I said, people are watching the same series and coming away with wildly different interpretations. That is informative as it shows how people bring their own baggage into the processing of what they see. No one is immune to it - all one can do is be aware when they're projecting.

Ami isn't a "normal girl" -- she's a model aka one who changes clothes surrounded by lots of people.

Throwing things at someone at a pool in an anime is no more dangerous than.. .throwing people into a pool unwillingly or jumping off into the pool on top of people. They're all forms of assault.

You're labeling Taiga an ass and Ryuuji a pushover, other people see it in a more complicated light or perhaps its a challenge. All of these characters are broken in some way, can they adapt to each other?
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Old 2008-11-20, 21:55   Link #68
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@ Dark:

Quote:
It is better to avoid randomness and inconsistency in directing, even if it became a sort of visiting-card of JC Staff lately.
This is 100% your opinion. This whole 'inconsistency' line of yours is making me roll my eyes back so far that I'm viable to pull a muscle somehow.

Why are you even watching this show to begin with, it's like you just happily sit there waiting to nitpick it to hell, going right for its knees, without giving it a chance to stand on its own two legs and be its own damn entity.

Damn.
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Old 2008-11-20, 22:05   Link #69
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I absolutely loved this weeks episode. The moment for me was taiga's complete conviction with her utterance "Ryuuji is mine" . If the class wasn't already positive she liked him before, they damn well know it now.

Although...I'm noticing alot of taiga hate, especially referencing her constant describing ryuuji as a "dog". I myself don't see an issue with this. She originally used the term as a derogative insult towards him. However, this only lasted so long as their formal "agreement" did, which ended in episode two. She began using the term again after Ryuuji gave her support after Kitamura rejected her. Looking at the context in which its being used (context of their interpersonal relationship), I believe its become a term of endearment as opposed to an insult.

It also has the side benefit of appearing to be an insult to an outside observer, while those who know otherwise (Ryuuji, Kitamura, Ami) don't take the term at face value.
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Old 2008-11-20, 22:18   Link #70
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A fundamental difference between the anime and novels is that anime is pressed for time, whereas novels are not.

A good anime needs to use atmosphere, facial expressions, and inflections in tone to cut out those wordy inner monologues in the novel. Thus, everything is not gonna be spelled out for you, and a few extraneous scenes will be cut out.

I've been reading the novels and watching the anime concurrently, and I am very pleased with how the anime is handling things. I don't see any inconsistencies. There are just some things that you need to infer. The changes they do make are intelligent and allow for more consistency for someone who has not read the novels. There is also a great deal of content packed into one episode, which I prefer.
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Old 2008-11-20, 22:39   Link #71
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good episode, very fun to watch.
early part of the show, lol at Minori, sleeping and drawing the eyes on her eyes .
I guess Taiga was quite complicated of her feeling, this episode it show how she care Ryuji so much.
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Old 2008-11-20, 22:42   Link #72
Samatarou
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I'm surprised at how so many people are censuring Taiga's behavour in this episode, I mean this is a girl who punched Ryuuji in the face (hard) in the first episode and yet he became friends with her instead of having her thrown into jail or at the least expelled, so clearly this is a series with a high degree of cartoony behaviour that isn't meant to be taken literally. Ripping Ami's bikini top off is one of Taiga's milder acts and certainly one of the funnier things she's done. Moreover that kind of thing does sometimes happen in real life and although it might cause embarrassment such involuntary wardrobe malfunctions are unlikely to scar someone emotionally IME. I saw it as a comeuppance for Ami wearing a bikini when she knew it was against the school swimming dresscode.

Overall I enjoyed the episode and am looking forward to the next one where hopefully similar antics will reoccur! Also Minori seems to be warming to Ryuuji more and more, I wonder whether Taiga is going to realise that her own feelings for Ryuuji are creating a quandry regarding helping him with Minori (not that she's been doing anything much on that front!)
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Old 2008-11-20, 22:43   Link #73
Master Chibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kir44n View Post
I absolutely loved this weeks episode. The moment for me was taiga's complete conviction with her utterance "Ryuuji is mine" . If the class wasn't already positive she liked him before, they damn well know it now.

Although...I'm noticing alot of taiga hate, especially referencing her constant describing ryuuji as a "dog". I myself don't see an issue with this. She originally used the term as a derogative insult towards him. However, this only lasted so long as their formal "agreement" did, which ended in episode two. She began using the term again after Ryuuji gave her support after Kitamura rejected her. Looking at the context in which its being used (context of their interpersonal relationship), I believe its become a term of endearment as opposed to an insult.

It also has the side benefit of appearing to be an insult to an outside observer, while those who know otherwise (Ryuuji, Kitamura, Ami) don't take the term at face value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kro View Post
A fundamental difference between the anime and novels is that anime is pressed for time, whereas novels are not.

A good anime needs to use atmosphere, facial expressions, and inflections in tone to cut out those wordy inner monologues in the novel. Thus, everything is not gonna be spelled out for you, and a few extraneous scenes will be cut out.

I've been reading the novels and watching the anime concurrently, and I am very pleased with how the anime is handling things. I don't see any inconsistencies. There are just some things that you need to infer. The changes they do make are intelligent and allow for more consistency for someone who has not read the novels. There is also a great deal of content packed into one episode, which I prefer.
Oh man, where are you wonderful people and your logic coming from?

Seriously, let's all have babies.
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Old 2008-11-20, 23:09   Link #74
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Old 2008-11-20, 23:23   Link #75
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Since episode 6/7 unless you are saying that she didnt had any emotions then, and suddenly had a massive character development during a single episode which is hard to believe.
I did a quick re-watch of six: in more than one instance her anger boils over to the point that she becomes violent (mostly involving projectile garbage).

Seven: hits Ami with her bag, panic attack/break down in the swimsuit store and crying about how she looks in her swimsuit later on, descends into nearly incoherent gibbering after Kitamura talks to her; and then there's that little desk-earthquake at the end of the episode.

I didn't mean emotions towards Ryuuji, but rather emotions in general. Taiga's a naturally outspoken, knee-jerk, moody, and violent person. She has a low tolerance for intense emotion and in most cases, it's obvious when she's dealing with more than she can handle internally.

What changes between episodes six, seven, and eight isn't her ability to control her emotions, but what she becomes emotional about, i.e. what she thinks of/how she feels towards Ryuuji.

Her perception of Ryuuji began in the very first episode with their very first interaction: punching him in the face. In terms of actions, their relationship had been progressing almost every episode: eating at his place, eating his lunch boxes, taking him to Johny's; asking Ryuuji for help to get a picture of Kitamura; showing herself in her swimsuit to him.

The thing about feelings is that they're not always apparent or obvious. As the saying goes, one doesn't realize what one has until it's taken from them: from episodes six to eight, Taiga (thinks she) sees Ryuuji becoming closer to Ami (Ami coming onto him, Ami inviting him to her villa, Ryuuji saying he would go to her villa) and considering the kind of person Taiga is, she's like to presume that also means he's moving farther away from her. That, if anything, is when she realizes that Ryuuji's always there for her.

Spoiler for Hidden because of long-windedness and--oops Somebody already said the same thing:


Addendum: I've been re-watching a few different episodes while writing up all of the above. Guess who I am: "Duru-duru-duru-duru-duru-duru-duru-duru-duru--hmph-jum!"
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Old 2008-11-21, 00:14   Link #76
risingstar3110
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Originally Posted by frubam View Post
I always say "Wassup dog" to my friends. I call just about all of my friends 'dogs' . Yeah bad joke, i know.
...then following with "you are my dog afterall, and it's master duty to restraint their own dog from messing around...". Then it's no longer a joke.

Of course it could be "people with poor relationships might not understand that you can insult one another in a friendly manner"... Surely there must be a culture where high school students identify such talks as friendly manner that they could throw at each other and use them as joke; and i doubt i if i ever want to be in such one.

Whatever. I can't spend much times for things i do not enjoy.
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Old 2008-11-21, 00:46   Link #77
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Old 2008-11-21, 02:12   Link #78
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Originally Posted by Caster13 View Post
Taiga being a violent bitch is exactly what makes the tender moments about her so wonderful. It's the necessary bipolar dichotomy of the tsundere archetype. Ryuuji plays a key part in not only being the target of her tsun abuse but also the main catalyst in bringing out her dere tenderness.
See though... Taiga's nature is really pushing the "tsundere" to rather harsh extremes. In accordance of the famous Shiraishi tsundere speech, I'd be more inclined to call Taiga 'severely bipolar', instead of referring to her as a true tsundere. Does she fall in that technical definition? I guess, but she really rides the maximum peaks of those sadistic highs, and bawls like a baby during those deep sea lows. These don't even seem like natural emotional progressions either, kinda just change emotions on a whim. A lot.

She's got some serious problems that need to be addressed. A little screwed up, if you will. But can I truly blame her though? She lives by herself and can't cook, is completely flat, people are afraid of her, and gets called the Palmtop Tiger. By this rationale, I'd be a little pissed off at the world as well.

Still love the kiddo, though.
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Old 2008-11-21, 02:16   Link #79
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See though... Taiga's nature is really pushing the "tsundere" to rather harsh extremes. In accordance of the famous Shiraishi tsundere speech, I'd be more inclined to call Taiga 'severely bipolar', instead of referring to her as a true tsundere.
Shiraishi's tsundere speech fails to take in to account the evolution of language and how language is used. Shiraishi's definition would more fall under "Defrosting Ice Queen", these days.
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Old 2008-11-21, 02:18   Link #80
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Of course it could be "people with poor relationships might not understand that you can insult one another in a friendly manner"... Surely there must be a culture where high school students identify such talks as friendly manner that they could throw at each other and use them as joke; and i doubt i if i ever want to be in such one.

Whatever. I can't spend much times for things i do not enjoy.
... so if you don't enjoy it, why are you watching ToraDora in the first place? To have something to complain about?

Beyond that, friendly insults don't 'just' happen in high school. I've seen them in the workplace, at sporting events and in team sports, and just about everywhere else. To say that someone calling someone else a bitch is meant to be hurtful, no ifs, ands, or buts, is a sign of either extreme presumption or else that one takes things too seriously. Or has no friends, or lacks any interaction with other human beings. Context is everything when it comes to statements - otherwise calling someone a genius would be always an acclamation of someone's intellect, when the situation could be the reverse; that's what we call sarcasm, after all. Or the reverse example of 'magnificent bastard' - which should be an insult (calling someone a very large or exceptionally exemplary product of a union between unwed parents aka: illegitimate child)... isn't.

Beyond that, idiom depends on context as well as shared understandings... and humans aren't always very literal minded. Look at how the exclamation "look out' developed - it doesn't usually mean to look around; it is used rather to tell someone about an immediate danger. Or should I point to the usage of one-word statements like "Duck!" which are dependent on the tone of voice as well as situation? Thus in this situation, one has to look at when and how Taiga's calling Ryuuji a certain name - just as 'Palmtop Tiger' isn't a literal description of Taiga (she is neither four to six inches long or an actual Siberian or Indian tiger), 'dog' in this situation may not be her calling him a dog or even a serious insult. As Yasuko pointed out earlier in this episode, if Taiga really hated Ryuuji she wouldn't be getting all worked up over him.

Last edited by Haesslich; 2008-11-21 at 02:35.
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