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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 8 Rating
Perfect 10 44 40.74%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 36 33.33%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 12.96%
7 out of 10 : Good 10 9.26%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.85%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.85%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-11-21, 15:33   Link #121
kir44n
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How in the world did we get to the point of comparing Evangelion and Toradora O_o . Even if it started with Gurren Lagan, its a bizzare comparison to be made between very different shows.

In any case, Toradora is easily my favorite show of this season, though no small part of that will because Toradora will definitley have a happy end (versus, say, Chaos;head. Don't need precognition to know thats gonna end in a trainwreck) ^^
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Old 2008-11-21, 15:33   Link #122
frubam
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So..... does anyone know what a tyrol is? Some anime ref?
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Old 2008-11-21, 15:40   Link #123
Shiroth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Gurren Lagann stood out a bit from "average mecha" -- as in the mecha itself were secondary to the story line
I've seen a lot of mecha shows, and it's basically always like that.

All i'm stating is that saying Gurren Lagann is just for teenagers is a load of bull. I respect what you've just said about the show Vexx, though it's hard to say that Darknemo won't even give the show a chance, let alone understand it's importance to the genre. I mean it's basically a show that's paying homage to 30 years of mecha.

Anyway i really didn't want to get this off-topic. I think just like Gurren Lagann, Toradora can be enjoyed by just about anyone.
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Old 2008-11-21, 16:29   Link #124
Tiran86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frubam View Post
So..... does anyone know what a tyrol is? Some anime ref?
Dunno. I just figured slang for yen or something since it was a bet. No idea how Tyrol translates to yen, but whatever.
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Old 2008-11-21, 16:35   Link #125
Oxtail
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In the novel they were using yen. I figured they changed it to an imaginary currency to discourage underaged gambling.
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Old 2008-11-21, 16:47   Link #126
Vexx
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"700 quatloos on the newcomers winning the duel!!" ... extra points for the reference.

Aye, along with Sudohbucks and such... they seem to have used imaginary currency ala matchsticks. Perhaps it converts to candy...
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Old 2008-11-21, 16:59   Link #127
Zippicus
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
"700 quatloos on the newcomers winning the duel!!" ... extra points for the reference.
That's old school stuff there, one of my all time favorite shows

Some of the youngins here might get the reference via a Futurama episode, but then again maybe not.
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Old 2008-11-21, 17:15   Link #128
typhonsentra
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Goddamn, this topic is moving at a crazy pace. It's already close to being the largest episode discussion topic to date.
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Old 2008-11-21, 18:33   Link #129
satuross
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i definitely give this episode a 10/10

All the scenes i wanted to see in the novel came out, minori eyes, armored tiger, fast-swimming-tiger, sweet-ryuji's mum, gah....i want to give it an 11!

im very sure this anime series could attract many people to read the novels and the manga. im looking forward to finishing this series!
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Old 2008-11-21, 19:04   Link #130
Haesslich
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
That's why i use "much times for things i do not enjoy".

I keeps my words through
If you want a show to get epic complaints about, I recommend Gundam 00 Second Season. Epic, epic flame threads there. The simplistic relationship development here's NOTHING compared to Soma x Hallelujah. Or Allelujah x Marie. Seriously, context is EVERYTHING when it comes to communication - and the context shown in the show is less... adverse than the Louise x Saito one from ZnT, whose infamous acrimony is the reason there's so much ZnT hate and why people (myself included) jumped on the "J.C. Staff fucks everything up by making it just like their Shakugan no Shana or Zero no Tsukaima, and have screwed up the characterization" bandwagon that's been accompanying ToraDora since episode 1 aired.

As for 'manly anime', I highly recommend Black Lagoon. So easy to share, and so like the way good action movies used to be with a bit more humor and thoughtfulness than the average shounen show. Or for men with a bit more emotional depth, Honey and Clover.
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Old 2008-11-21, 19:08   Link #131
Kaisos Erranon
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Wow Haess, you post here too?
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Old 2008-11-21, 19:13   Link #132
KeitaroNagato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
Goddamn, this topic is moving at a crazy pace. It's already close to being the largest episode discussion topic to date.
Hehehehe... It seems this episode is the best in all. I love it.
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Old 2008-11-21, 19:26   Link #133
Vexx
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It certainly closed up the "first semester arc" with a sort of bang with a many threads coming together. Next it looks like we'll get Round 2 in a "summer arc".

I've watched the episode several times now and will readily admit that even without having read the novels to this point it is clear this is a "highlights of" condensing of events - but that just makes me more interested in reading the novels I guess (and the manga).

I seriously don't want to know what Taiga meant with that seaweed line in the trailer preview -- but then dialog in those things is usually composed of bizarre non sequitur.
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Old 2008-11-21, 19:30   Link #134
KeitaroNagato
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
yes, guys like it, too... actually its written for a male audience if you believe the silly japanese industry labeling. One could argue that it has more appeal for more mature males or males more attuned to how people interact.



Toradora delivers much more complicated personalities - the art is not necessarily as fantastic but the story content and how these personalities interact are very compelling. That stems from the wealth of material available in the light novels.
Visual adaptations of novels are always taking a huge risk in alienating the novel readers. Using the houkoholic's LOTR example -- I'm a HUGE fan of the novels, have read them dozens of times since the 1970s. The liberties that Jackson took could easily have turned me completely off -- but as a standalone effort of "retelling a tale", I still feel about 80% of LOTR was brilliantly done.
Moby Dick is a "whale of a book" but the Gregory Peck movie adaptation while leaving out hours of critical moments from the book still is amazing to watch.

I suspect when I read the novel series for Toradora in its entirety I'll find many scenes and nuances that I wish would have been animated.
So it goes...
I love how the story is pulling so far... it's getting more better. I cannot wait for the next episode. ^^
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Old 2008-11-21, 19:44   Link #135
khryoleoz
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Something about how this show is developing is rubbing me the wrong way. I have no sympathy at all for Taiga. I think her type is one of the worst out of which to make a lead character. Being an ill-tempered abuser, there's no way to connect with her even when she is vulnerable. I'm also getting sick of Rie Kugimiya playing these kinds of characters that are derivatives of the kind she played in Shana and Zero. Man, how I wish there was a TV series of Hoi Hoi-san instead where she would have been better used.
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Old 2008-11-21, 19:52   Link #136
Vexx
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Well, then perhaps you should read the earlier posts on the series to see if that adjusts your interpretation. There's a fair amount of discussion and analysis back there. I'm not going to repeat my posts on the subject other than to say many people dispute the 'derivative' assertion as a superficial analysis. I distinctly disliked both those anime series and the characters and don't see a close connection between them and Taiga outside of the "3 second description".

On a separate note relating to an earlier post I had made, I had assumed this was a seinen novel/manga/anime -- but it seems to have started as a shounen series o.O. The relationships seem quite a bit too complicated for that age demographic -- but I do notice that the manga chapters have moved into a seinen magazine now. Just another example of how those classifications aren't necessarily informative.
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Old 2008-11-21, 20:00   Link #137
KeitaroNagato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post

I seriously don't want to know what Taiga meant with that seaweed line in the trailer preview -- but then dialog in those things is usually composed of bizarre non sequitur.
I wonder if its another Ryuuji side dish....mmmmm.

Every since I've been watching, I started to cook some Dashi dishes. Miso soup is so easy to make and good too

Hey, I just realized something... in this episode, this was the first time Ryuuji lost his temper. He is usually cool under pressure, I guess for all he have done for Taiga, she is not been honest on what she truly feels. It could be avoided if she just be frank with him.

Yet, at the end. She did act like a tiger protecting her injured mate against other. Then again telling everyone else in the Jonny's family restaurant that Ryuuji is "That's because Ryuuji is my dog", trying to hide again her true feelings what she really means. But at this point, Ryuuji knows already. I wonder what schemes Ami is up too already, when she whisper "Too bad I can't spend time with you alone... But, there's always a chance!" God ... its getting better and better.
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Old 2008-11-21, 20:33   Link #138
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2 View Post
ToraDora! has good story to base on, Kannagi relies a lot on finesse and good technical skills to mask the simplistic story.

That's my take.
I have to agree with you but that is what anime actually is, since the story, upon adaptation, is prepared for you so anime, to be good, has to work on presentation and directing skills to bring in as much of that story as possible into anime.

Kannagi anime did what it could do the best - showed good directing skills, good visualizations and voice acting, basically the presentation is very good. The manga story is so-so only and anime follows it, making it's plot not so very impressive.

Toradora's strength is obviously plot as it is based one of the current big light novel titles. Yet the part where the anime directing skills and presentation lies - it is not so impressive either. Sure it is not Zero No Tsukaima, thankfully directing skills go beyond the boob-jokes, but at the same time it still lacks the consistence upon following the changes it creates. The visuals are pretty good, but obviously not so good as Kannagi and while voice acting here is also solid - again Kannagi's is simply better.

Kannagis works on visuals but the presentation is what fully depend on anime, while the plot, though obviously is depending on directing skills, is still influenced mostly by the original source (unless the adaptation decide to change quite a few things).

Kannagi is a short-term popular so to say, simply because story is not it's strong part, and characters, though moe are not that impressive either.

So stormy, what do you call visuals to mask simplistic story - I would rather call doing what it can do best. Simplistic story was already determined by the manga (as long as they choose to follow it) so it did what it could do best upon presentation, and you have to admit it really does a good job.

Sure the latest episodes are not that strong as the first ones, but nevertheless Kannagi is definitely a good anime to follow this season.

Shiroth, I do understand that you are a Gurren fanboy/fangirl but I cannot see Gurren as an revolution in the genre. Or maybe I am getting too old to realize it's innovations (considering that Evangelion is still my favorite anime for more than 10 years it is obvious that I am rather conservative). It could be also that Evangelion fans do not like Gurren all that much too seeing it as nothing impressive (the opinions on evageeks and als seem to be rather similar in this aspect).

For me Shinji, Asuka, Rei, Akagi, Misato are much better/stronger characters than anyone from Gurren. Gurren really failed to impress me on the characters level first thats why for me this anime is not mature, but rather trying to look mature. But again we should not be discussing this in Toradora thread.
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Old 2008-11-21, 21:05   Link #139
KeitaroNagato
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Did anyone finished the third novel? I'm so mad they left alot in episode 8, but I guess its only natural. It would be more cool if the argument between Taiga and Ryuuji were more added in the this episode. Anyhow, Toradora! rocks. As far as I can see, not only in this forum, many others are non-stop talking about Toradora! I guess this episode really tops the anime show in general.
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Old 2008-11-21, 21:34   Link #140
frubam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Toradora's strength is obviously plot as it is based one of the current big light novel titles. Yet the part where the anime directing skills and presentation lies - it is not so impressive either. Sure it is not Zero No Tsukaima, thankfully directing skills go beyond the boob-jokes, but at the same time it still lacks the consistence upon following the changes it creates. The visuals are pretty good, but obviously not so good as Kannagi and while voice acting here is also solid - again Kannagi's is simply better.
Now lets be fair here. You're comparing a manga-to-anime transition to a novel-to-anime transition. I haven't read the manga, nor watched the anime of Kannagi yet(I will soon ), but obviously the detail of a manga isn't going to compare to the detail in a novel. From how you highly regard the Toradora novels, it's already as good as it can get, so any hope of you regarding the anime to be 'better' or 'as good' is lost. And I don't particularly blame you. I did the exact same thing in the Index thread. The idealology that you think Kannagi is better stems from the fact that its merely better than its' average source material. Since it's adapted from a manga, its barely going to lose anything in its transition. In fact, you could say it can gain far more, since comedies are more amusing in motion and with voices. It has no abundance of intricate details, inner thoughts or monologues to transition to the anime, esp since its coming from a manga. Realistically, Toradora has no choice but to leave out details, be it important or not, since it's based on a novel that has all of those elements. To someone who's read the story already, knowing bits and pieces are left out, even if it was necessary, your obviously going to think that anything less than the full story isn't good enough. Thus I feel that its rather irrelevant for you to compare the two.
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