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Old 2008-11-21, 21:22   Link #1801
Rembr
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Atashi strongly implies a feminine tone.
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Old 2008-11-21, 21:32   Link #1802
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rembr View Post
Atashi strongly implies a feminine tone.
mhm, the 'a' is softer than a 'wa', so perhaps commonly used by middle aged women of a gentle, fragile nature. (the generation older than us)
(Well that's the feeling i get from it)
Although as of recently, i'm hearing 'uchi' a hell of a lot, that's beginning to feel neutral in terms of gender.
If a man's using watashi and atashi a lot in casual situations, chances are (least in japan) that he's gay or pretending to be so.
It's either amusing or very weird japanese lang wise.
Kinda like in an extreme western sense, a guy going 'you go girl! Moccha was just soooo yesterday!'
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Old 2008-11-21, 22:41   Link #1803
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atashi is being very soft and sweet, almost romantic - very feminine. I'd probably blink a lot if I saw anyone using it in public. I can't even imagine a situation in which a male would use it - even if he was gay (except perhaps in a very private chat between two lovers and then I certainly wouldn't be in earshot).

You'll mostly only hear it used in public by songstresses crooning torrid love songs.

I'll differ from a Mystique a bit... everything I've read implies that males under a certain age will use boku if they're using a self-referential noun at all. Males over 20-something will tend to not use self-referential nouns but will use "watashi" in casual business chatter (especially in terms of "watashi no ..." to indicate ownership).

Japanese in general almost always drop the "I/me" words if they're the subject of the sentence.
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Old 2008-11-21, 22:46   Link #1804
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I've heard "atashi" used a bit by females in casual conversations, but not in public, I think...
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Old 2008-11-21, 22:48   Link #1805
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Thank for the fasts answers.
Somehow it confirm the impression I got from reading one light novel serie.
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Old 2008-11-22, 00:14   Link #1806
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
atashi is being very soft and sweet, almost romantic - very feminine. I'd probably blink a lot if I saw anyone using it in public. I can't even imagine a situation in which a male would use it - even if he was gay (except perhaps in a very private chat between two lovers and then I certainly wouldn't be in earshot).

You'll mostly only hear it used in public by songstresses crooning torrid love songs.

I'll differ from a Mystique a bit... everything I've read implies that males under a certain age will use boku if they're using a self-referential noun at all. Males over 20-something will tend to not use self-referential nouns but will use "watashi" in casual business chatter (especially in terms of "watashi no ..." to indicate ownership).

Japanese in general almost always drop the "I/me" words if they're the subject of the sentence.
Last part is the key.
買い物に行ってくる。
kaimono ni ittekuru.
I'm going shopping.

i/me is rarely used as it is anyways, so on the occasions when men are referring to themselves... well i for those older than me (in their 30's) i hear 'ore' a lot xD
Guys in my age group = ore/boku
Business wise, seems to be full of keigo and set phrases that the chance for personal thought or opinion doesn't seem to be there. But i did say 'casual' speech, totally unrelated to business when i mentioned my post above
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Old 2008-11-22, 04:16   Link #1807
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As a general rule, the more consonants/vowels are omitted, the less formal it will be.

Watakushi > Watashi > Atashi > Atai

cf: Sama > San > Chan, Tan

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Thank for the fasts answers.
Somehow it confirm the impression I got from reading one light novel serie.
You read "Bungaku Shoujo" series. Take it for example: Nanase uses "Atashi", illustrating her girlish adolescence, while Touko-Sempai does always "Watashi", since she is a perfect icon of a graceful lady, though she is just one year older than Nanase in fact. As a native Japanese speaker born in Tokyo, I get the following impressions when I hear a teenager girl using:

Uchi -> immature, trend-follower
Atashi -> rude, girlish
Watashi -> social, well-educated

In fictitious creations, the first pronoun is a useful gadget for authors to depict characters. Readers would have a basic idea on the character's background and mentality in a short sentence. Sometimes authors rely lazily upon the shortcut function that oddly rare or anachronistic ones are employed in entertainments.
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Old 2008-11-22, 08:17   Link #1808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiberLibri View Post
You read "Bungaku Shoujo" series. Take it for example: Nanase uses "Atashi", illustrating her girlish adolescence, while Touko-Sempai does always "Watashi", since she is a perfect icon of a graceful lady, though she is just one year older than Nanase in fact. As a native Japanese speaker born in Tokyo, I get the following impressions when I hear a teenager girl using:

Uchi -> immature, trend-follower
Atashi -> rude, girlish
Watashi -> social, well-educated
As far as I readed in the serie, I remember 3 'girls'' using '' atashi''; Nanase, Himekura and Miu.
Spoiler for Bungaku Shoujo serie:
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Old 2008-11-22, 17:19   Link #1809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
As far as I readed in the serie, I remember 3 'girls'' using '' atashi''; Nanase, Himekura and Miu.
Spoiler for Bungaku Shoujo serie:
To my eyes, Himekura Maki's case has another meaning. Her "Atashi" symbolises the antagonism against "decency" and "grace"; she intentionally try to be rude.

Spoiler for background:
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Old 2008-11-23, 03:46   Link #1810
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I thought about learning Japanese. It just doesn't seem worth it though, since I'll probably never have any uses for it. It's not worth the effort.
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Old 2008-11-23, 06:13   Link #1811
ganbaru
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Sorry to read so.
But at least , it better to stop now than after, no?
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Old 2008-11-23, 09:35   Link #1812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
mhm, the 'a' is softer than a 'wa', so perhaps commonly used by middle aged women of a gentle, fragile nature. (the generation older than us)
(Well that's the feeling i get from it)
Although as of recently, i'm hearing 'uchi' a hell of a lot, that's beginning to feel neutral in terms of gender.
If a man's using watashi and atashi a lot in casual situations, chances are (least in japan) that he's gay or pretending to be so.
It's either amusing or very weird japanese lang wise.
Kinda like in an extreme western sense, a guy going 'you go girl! Moccha was just soooo yesterday!'
"uchi" is not a recent term.
It's a kansai area dialect, not formal Japanese.
It may feel recent, if you live in kantou area... but it's always been in use in kansai.
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Old 2008-11-23, 13:52   Link #1813
Vexx
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Darn that kansai-ben .... (actually I love it and hearing it spoken).
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Old 2008-11-23, 16:44   Link #1814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socko View Post
I thought about learning Japanese. It just doesn't seem worth it though, since I'll probably never have any uses for it. It's not worth the effort.
It's just my opinion, but if you are young and have time and access, then you should learn as many foreign languages as your brain accepts. You cannot judge if you actually use one in the future, and it will be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to start learning after you get aged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
But at least , it better to stop now than after, no?
Stopping halfway may be okay; even fragmentary knowledge can sometimes be helpful. My French is terrible, but it enabled me to communicate with a Belgian who spoke neither Japanese or English a few weeks ago.
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Old 2008-11-23, 20:17   Link #1815
rio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
"uchi" is not a recent term.
It's a kansai area dialect, not formal Japanese.
It may feel recent, if you live in kantou area... but it's always been in use in kansai.
When i was at a college in kantou area, many of my friends use 'uchi'
but when i came back to touhoku area, none of my friends use it '.';;
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Old 2008-11-23, 22:37   Link #1816
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiberLibri View Post
Stopping halfway may be okay; even fragmentary knowledge can sometimes be helpful. My French is terrible, but it enabled me to communicate with a Belgian who spoke neither Japanese or English a few weeks ago.
If you want to practice your French, I would be glad to help
( French is my first language, but I am not french, so I won't bulshit you because you would made a little error)
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Old 2008-11-24, 19:08   Link #1817
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ganbaru
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I'm glad to see that we have a large french-speaking community here at animesuki.com.
I think we should really make a separate thread for speaking and learning french.

Spoiler for en francais et japonais:



LiberLibri
Quote:
but if you are young and have time and access, then you should learn as many foreign languages as your brain accepts.
I like your approach. However it can sometimes be terribly difficult to find a few spare hours a day on a regular basis for language studies.
Personally, I learned french at the uni, so in case of any questions I'd be glad to help.
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Old 2008-11-25, 04:24   Link #1818
LeoXiao
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It's just my opinion, but if you are young and have time and access, then you should learn as many foreign languages as your brain accepts. You cannot judge if you actually use one in the future, and it will be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to start learning after you get aged.
I agree with you fully. And it's not just because of usefulness that one should learn other languages; knowing more than one language can help you get a feel for other perspectives of the world.

Japanese seems actually pretty easy to me. It's not so grammar-oriented like German or Russian, but is definitely more complex than a language like Chinese, and that's probably just because of all the words used in different social modes.
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Old 2008-11-27, 01:39   Link #1819
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Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
I agree with you fully. And it's not just because of usefulness that one should learn other languages; knowing more than one language can help you get a feel for other perspectives of the world.

Japanese seems actually pretty easy to me. It's not so grammar-oriented like German or Russian, but is definitely more complex than a language like Chinese, and that's probably just because of all the words used in different social modes.
I agree with that part on Japanese. Compared to Chinese, it's easier to read and I read it faster than Chinese.

Having only a mediocre proficiency (i.e. usage in most everyday situations but not professionally), I tend to be quite bad at reading Chinese.

Chinese does have a few social modes too but not as distinct as Japanese. At the professional level, Chinese does sound a little different because they substitute some words for others, and can be confusing to those who didn't learn it.

For example, the word 'sorry' i.e. 對不起 (dui bu qi) will be substituted as 抱歉 (bao qian) in formal situation. It's somewhat similar to Japanese 'sumanai' 「すまない」 and 'moushi wake arimasen' 「申し訳ありません」.
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Old 2008-11-27, 12:05   Link #1820
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I have a question for translators or other people who speak the language fluently to ask this question: How do you pronounce English, Spanish, French, German and other names from other countries and nationalities in Japanese? I had only seen a few shows (forgive me if I only based this off the anime I watch) but how would lets say a voice seiyuu pronounce them?

Edit: Forgive me, I didn't realize you guys were already doing that already but I have another question on how to discern certain Japanese dialects.
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