AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Gundam

Notices

View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Second Season - Episode 7 Rating
Perfect 10 114 52.05%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 39 17.81%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 36 16.44%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 4.11%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 3.65%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 7 3.20%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.46%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 5 2.28%
Voters: 219. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-11-22, 16:35   Link #581
Arabesque
Licensed Hunter-a-holic
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 25
The funny part about all of this is that neither Marie nor Soma was ever involved in killing any one until the second season.

As Marie, she didn't have a moving body at all, and had a gentle nature, so there is no question that she couldn't manage to kill anyone.

As Soma, she was only involved in the fight against the Gundams as Sergei shielded her from going into other battles at the time, which helped her develop from the brainwashed-obey-orders (not blood thirsty) solider faux personality into someone who dislikes fighting. Heck, when she was at the mission to exterminate Katharon at their base, she basically froze and was pretty distracted during the whole thing. And now, she is pretty much the same person as Marie and Soma, as she said that she still retains her memories of Soma and part of her personality, so unless she develops another one (unlikely) we won’t see this battle crazy Soma anytime soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinku View Post
i dont think they are defenseless kids..... they are growing up to be weapons preatty much
Yes, but being brainwashed in acting as a weapon and being someone who loves killing and is blood thirsty are two different things.
__________________
Arabesque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-22, 18:41   Link #582
Kinku
Hate a Hater.Love a Lover
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 29
Send a message via MSN to Kinku
i was trying to defend allelujah action about killing all those kids back in season 1.. they would have grown up to be either just a weapon or bloodthirsty killer either way i didnt think allelujah wouldnt want that to happen.
__________________
☆● PeAcE N Love●☆
Kinku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-22, 18:57   Link #583
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Or maybe they'd have found their own Russian pedobear to adopt them and turn them into nice kids. We'll never know. Because some bastard with a giant robot decided they didn't deserve to live.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-22, 19:14   Link #584
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Or maybe they'd have found their own Russian pedobear to adopt them and turn them into nice kids. We'll never know. Because some bastard with a giant robot decided they didn't deserve to live.
The cub bear decided to forgive him. That's good enough for me.

She understands what happened better than any of us, it is her right to decide how Al was to be judged. The rest of us are just outsiders throwing opinions around.

What was it called again? "Judged by your peers"?
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-22, 19:56   Link #585
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The cub bear decided to forgive him. That's good enough for me.

She understands what happened better than any of us, it is her right to decide how Al was to be judged. The rest of us are just outsiders throwing opinions around.

What was it called again? "Judged by your peers"?
If being judged by your girlfriend isn't illegal, it ought to be.

And who is she to forgive him, really? Was she friends with the kids that got killed? And even if she was - let's say Al kills a family. Just for kicks. Let's say a survivor of that family forgives him. Does that make him less of a murderer?

I'm all for forgiveness. I'm even willing to grant that his upbringing made him crazy and therefore not wholly responsible. Let's even say, against all evidence (he's still fighting for the CBs. The guys who, instead of putting him in therapy, gave him a giant robot and told him "OK" when he announced he wanted to slaughter a few dozen kids.), let's say he won't do it again. If only because there aren't any super soldiers left to kill.

I'm still vastly uncomfortable with saying that what he did was nothing, or even comparable to firing at an armed enemy combatant.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-22, 20:01   Link #586
NyxOne
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Of course, disregard that Al doesn't kill for kicks.
NyxOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-22, 20:22   Link #587
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
If being judged by your girlfriend isn't illegal, it ought to be.

And who is she to forgive him, really? Was she friends with the kids that got killed? And even if she was - let's say Al kills a family. Just for kicks. Let's say a survivor of that family forgives him. Does that make him less of a murderer?

I'm all for forgiveness. I'm even willing to grant that his upbringing made him crazy and therefore not wholly responsible. Let's even say, against all evidence (he's still fighting for the CBs. The guys who, instead of putting him in therapy, gave him a giant robot and told him "OK" when he announced he wanted to slaughter a few dozen kids.), let's say he won't do it again. If only because there aren't any super soldiers left to kill.

I'm still vastly uncomfortable with saying that what he did was nothing, or even comparable to firing at an armed enemy combatant.
No one said what he did was nothing. Even Al was uncomfortable with what he did, that's why he felt he had to tell Marie what he had done. He wanted her to know the whole truth about what kind of man he is, and would be fine if she was to reject him for it. Marie was the only person in the position to damn him or to forgive him, it was her choice to make.

If Al truly felt what he did was nothing major, he wouldn't have brought it up at all.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-22, 20:23   Link #588
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Well, that was just an example.

And even if the deal with the kids wasn't for kicks, his reasons were pretty specious.


Al felt kinda guilty about it, yes. Marie, OTOH, is quick to make light of it.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-22, 20:30   Link #589
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Well, that was just an example.

And even if the deal with the kids wasn't for kicks, his reasons were pretty specious.


Al felt kinda guilty about it, yes. Marie, OTOH, is quick to make light of it.
What would you WANT her to do?

This reminded me of the Discworld Novels. In the Discworld, there is an "organization for equal heights", essentially a pressure group against dwarf discrimination. The weird part is that the Dwarves were never really discriminated against in Discworld, and that the organization members are all humans only...

Marie decided, from what she understood of the super soldier program, why Al had to do what he did. You can't say she wasn't qualified to judge. She was the ONLY person qualified to judge.

Otherwise you would just sound like a human trying to defend a non-existent Dwarf discrimination...
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-22, 20:44   Link #590
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Super soldiers are people too, and unlike your dwarfs not asking any special treatment, I think they did mind getting killed. In fact, I find your argument pretty dangerous too. "Super soldiers aren't real human beings anyway. Let's leave them settle it between themselves."

I agree there wasn't much Marie could do. But she could have refrained from trying to justify it with some kind of "it's the same as shooting enemy combatants."
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-22, 20:53   Link #591
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Super soldiers are people too, and unlike your dwarfs not asking any special treatment, I think they did mind getting killed. In fact, I find your argument pretty dangerous too. "Super soldiers aren't real human beings anyway. Let's leave them settle it between themselves."

I agree there wasn't much Marie could do. But she could have refrained from trying to justify it with some kind of "it's the same as shooting enemy combatants."
I am saying your attempt at claiming you know what the super solders feel more than Marie, a REAL super soldier, is like the humans trying to defend dwarf rights when they don't have a dwarf who agree with them.

If you care so much about what the super soldiers feel about the incident, then you shouldn't disregard Marie's opinions as that of a homicidal maniac. She IS the person you are trying to defend, not your opponent.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-22, 21:01   Link #592
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
OK, so if a black man kills a few other black men, should I only care about what black people have to say about it? And if I find a black girl to tell me it was OK, then it was, and nobody needs to go to jail?

And no, Marie isn't the one I'm trying to defend. She's not the one who got murdered. She just happens to have a background similar to theirs.

You want to talk about Super-Soldiers' feelings? How about that of the kid saying "Allelujah, I don't want to die"? How about the feelings of the screaming children dying a fiery death?
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-22, 21:09   Link #593
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
OK, so if a black man kills a few other black men, should I only care about what black people have to say about it? And if I find a black girl to tell me it was OK, then it was, and nobody needs to go to jail?

And no, Marie isn't the one I'm trying to defend. She's not the one who got murdered. She just happens to have a background similar to theirs.

You want to talk about Super-Soldiers' feelings? How about that of the kid saying "Allelujah, I don't want to die"? How about the feelings of the screaming children dying a fiery death?
Marie knows.
She knows better than you or me, at least.

And A-Laws was certainly not interested in the dead kids. So no one is going to throw Al into jail because like it or not, the only people who cared about those kids in the entire world is Al and Marie.

(And using your example, if black people believe the death of one of their own was somehow justified, there must have been a REASON. It certainly would not be because the people you talked to were psychos, it would just mean they know more than you do in what happened.)
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-23, 06:32   Link #594
LoweGear
Device Meister
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of the usual flamenco
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
This applies only to the time, we've seen her in the series.
We've got no information, on how many battles she was before beeing assigned to sergei, or how many people she killed during training.
Marie/Soma herself states that she's thankful to Sergei for putting her only on Anti-Gundam operations. Given that Soma seems to have no prior record of being in combat before being assigned to Sergei, and since you don't kill people during training, it's a fair bet that she's never actually killed another person in combat before. There's also her comment in episode 5 about "this is a real battlefield" after the Katharon base raid...
__________________

On Perspective: "Depending on who you talk to, twintails are either ponytails multiplied by two, or divided by two.
LoweGear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-23, 06:54   Link #595
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Marie knows.
She knows better than you or me, at least.
What does she know? That Allelujah needs help rather than recrimination? Or that she doesn't give a damn about the dead kids?

Quote:
And A-Laws was certainly not interested in the dead kids. So no one is going to throw Al into jail because like it or not, the only people who cared about those kids in the entire world is Al and Marie.
Yeah, he'd end up in jail because he's a CB. Not my point.

Quote:
(And using your example, if black people believe the death of one of their own was somehow justified, there must have been a REASON. It certainly would not be because the people you talked to were psychos, it would just mean they know more than you do in what happened.)
One black person believes. And do you truly support having one justice for Blacks, one for Whites, one for Asians and so on? I know that justice and moral aren't quite the same, but still.

And I don't see why you take it on faith that the person saying the murder of children was justified isn't crazy.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-23, 06:59   Link #596
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
And I don't see why you take it on faith that the person saying the murder of children was justified isn't crazy.
People in the Federation take it on faith that the murder of children by A-Laws was justified, so why not?

You are trying to speak for the super soldiers, while disregarding the opinion of super soldiers. Just because Marie disagree with you doesn't make her wrong. She knows the situation better than you, so claiming you are better informed than her is outragous.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-23, 07:53   Link #597
LoweGear
Device Meister
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of the usual flamenco
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Normally not, that's true. But after all we've seen about this supersoldier programme, I could imagine, that they let them fight against each other for real, to only get the best ones out.
This isn't Sparta though, this is the HRL, where economics matter. They'd want each and every supersoldier to survive so they can have more of them, hence make all of them strong rather than have them go out in a survival of the fittest bout. Only the ones with the irreversable defects would be thrown out, such as Al.
__________________

On Perspective: "Depending on who you talk to, twintails are either ponytails multiplied by two, or divided by two.
LoweGear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-23, 08:09   Link #598
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
People in the Federation take it on faith that the murder of children by A-Laws was justified, so why not?
Because we should be better than that?

Quote:
You are trying to speak for the super soldiers, while disregarding the opinion of super soldiers.
One super-soldier. You, on the other hand, are disregarding the opinion of all the super soldiers who died screaming in terror.

I also find it funny you claim Marie knows so much about it, when she only heard a few on-screen phrases from Allelujah. We, as spectators, saw how he decided to do it, and saw his victims die. I won't say I know more than Marie about the Super-Soldier program, but I don't see why I should blindly trust her judgment either.

Quote:
Just because Marie disagree with you doesn't make her wrong. She knows the situation better than you, so claiming you are better informed than her is outragous.
If she's that well-informed and right, then she can make a better argument than "me too, I shot at you while you were in a MS and trying to kill me."
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-23, 09:33   Link #599
patnam
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
After i watch this episode, I can sense Regene may possible going to betray the Innovators and Ribbons...
patnam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-11-23, 13:02   Link #600
Synria_
Aboard Kallen's Bandwagon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Ok well I posted this awhile back but apparently a heated discussion was going on.

Did anyone notice what sumeragi said after allelujiah was found that she "didn't lose her reason for fighting".

Could this mean there could be some deep relationship going on between them?? or at least from sumeragi's perspective?
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=74320&dateline=120433  1734
Synria_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.