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Old 2008-11-22, 05:53   Link #1981
herbert
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Kaioshin Sama

Your post is too vague for us to make clear sense.

Mind explain why you think Sheryl's character development is in "a gimmicky sort of way" and how her personalities is "flip-flopping"?

You want us to reply you in a sensible way, don't you? Then you need let us know what you exactly mean. We can't give you any good answer because we yet know what make you think that way. Remember, even though this is not a Sheryl fan thread, most people here are Sheryl fans, and Sheryl fans would not think what you are thinking. Right?

btw I had answered to the parts of your post which I could make sense. I'd be grateful if you take one minute to read it.
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Old 2008-11-22, 06:51   Link #1982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herbert View Post
Kaioshin Sama

Your post is too vague for us to make clear sense.

Mind explain why you think Sheryl's character development is in "a gimmicky sort of way" and how her personalities is "flip-flopping"?

You want us to reply you in a sensible way, don't you? Then you need let us know what you exactly mean. We can't give you any good answer because we yet know what make you think that way. Remember, even though this is not a Sheryl fan thread, most people here are Sheryl fans, and Sheryl fans would not think what you are thinking. Right?

btw I had answered to the parts of your post which I could make sense. I'd be grateful if you take one minute to read it.
Sigh....apparently it's not enough that I can just say that I find her character irritating, cite my view of her and be done with it, I have to justify my opinion and thoughts on her for some reason. Truthfully I never really cared if anyone replied at all because I know how it goes with this character and what to expect, I was just trying to leave my say in the thread but....

If you're looking for the answer as to flip-flopping, I believe I already shared it in one of the earlier episode threads, but a primary example is during the part where we first learn of the attack on the Macross Frontier fleet. Sheryl seems to flip flop between being this unfazed sort of character that is strong in the face of the uncertainty as to her home's safety and believes everything is honky dory, and one who is crumbling under the fear of what might have happened and can't seem to take it. And it seems to have nothing to with her street life versus her idol life either, it's just appears like she's holding contradictory reactions and is both the popular ideal of an emotional strong woman, but somehow one who can evoke pity from the audience as well (the "gimmicky" part, though perhaps I just used that term because I couldn't think of any other way to describe the impression I got here) despite the fact that both shouldn't be able to exist simultaneously. And if it was supposed to be a contrast between her idol and street life then I can't say it came across very well as there were other aspects of her street life versus her idol life that were quite obvious and portrayed well enough.

There's also the issue where she seems to alternate between a mature sort of character who is a clear-headed thinker with her words of advice towards Alto and Ranka in a couple of episodes and one that is a totally impulsive and irresponsible hothead who would do something like run off of a building or trip a person in the middle of a street. Some might argue that it's supposed to make her "a woman that knows what she wants" or a complex character, but I say that the writers played fast and loose with the development of her personality and just went with whatever they needed from her at any given moment in order to make her popular. Her character development seemed far to flexible, almost schizophrenic at times such that she seems like more of a symbol than an actual character.

As for her background, I just felt it was cliche. The usual she puts on a strong exterior but really she's had a hard life sort of thing. As I said though it was suitable and fitting.
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Old 2008-11-22, 07:10   Link #1983
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Kaioshin Sama, your two primary points can all be chalked up to one thing: people are contradictory. What, you think someone can't put on a brave face to others and, on the inside, be dying a little bit? Even to the extent of letting it on to some? You don't think we can be level-headed and impulsive at different times? Honestly, you seem to be nitpicking, here... granted, you have every right to do so, just don't expect us to agree and bow to you.

After all, you went to the trouble to state your view, so it's only natural, being this a discussion thread in a discussion forum, that some people are gonna disagree and counter your points - or even, simply comment on your post. Don't play the world-weary part, as if you didn't really care you wouldn't have posted anything to begin with.

As for the cliché of the poor orphaned child background... c'mon, it was shown once and mentioned one other time. Really, it was less of a cliché than what you could expect from such a plot point. None dragged it out any. And, it was a surprise twist. So, I'm okay with that. Your mileage may vary.
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Old 2008-11-22, 07:12   Link #1984
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If you ask me the amnesia card Ranka had was more cliche. X3
At least Sheryl's background gave a surprising and interesting twist.
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Old 2008-11-22, 10:45   Link #1985
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In terms of emotional involvement, Sheryl got my pity more than Ranka during their down moments.
After Grace told Sheryl she will die soon from the V-type infection. Sheryl was walking in the rain and she saw her poster on the street, it's just too sad.

For the fun moments though, I remember Ranka more than Sheryl (The pineapple pie tastes bad oniichan! ).

Last edited by Liddo-kun; 2008-11-24 at 05:38.
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Old 2008-11-22, 12:08   Link #1986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
There's also the issue where she seems to alternate between a mature sort of character who is a clear-headed thinker with her words of advice towards Alto and Ranka in a couple of episodes and one that is a totally impulsive and irresponsible hothead who would do something like run off of a building or trip a person in the middle of a street. Some might argue that it's supposed to make her "a woman that knows what she wants" or a complex character, but I say that the writers played fast and loose with the development of her personality and just went with whatever they needed from her at any given moment in order to make her popular. Her character development seemed far to flexible, almost schizophrenic at times such that she seems like more of a symbol than an actual character.
To this I would say I have known women who are exactly like Sheryl. Their personalities tend to bounce between invincible and vulnerable so much you'd think they were bipolar. I felt like Sheryl is the type of person who knows when to guard herself and when to let her defenses down. This made her character flawed in a way that was interesting to me.

But I suppose it's impossible to please everyone, just like there will be people who hated The Incredibles or even My Neighbor Totoro. Even so, you're nowhere near as bad as *shudders* Wesley84, who seemed to have a personal vendetta against every single character in the series save for Klan, and yet he was here every single week to spew his venom over and over again. He was fun.
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Old 2008-11-22, 22:35   Link #1987
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It seems like this thread is coming full circle back to our discussions in June.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Look, there is really no inconsistency with Sheryl. She is the kind of woman who will not take a beating lying down. Yes, she isn't perfect, and she has feelings too, but her arrogance and pride would demand her not admitting any of them unless she was sure she had someone she can trust (Alto, who knows its 'healthy' to keep Sheryl's secrets).

She makes the best out of the worst situations, we've seen that. She adapts quickly and responds quickly, thats her and there is nothing wrong with it. As a comparison, Alto is a more straight forward person, but both of them share one same quality, they both have a clear idea of what they want and sought to attain them (despite exercising slightly different methods in the process).

Sheryl isn't omnipotent, and she is no Lacus Clyne.

But she doesn't make irrational choices like Lacus Clyne, where in the events of Destiny she was saved by pure luck many times! Nor does Sheryl overly-rely on Alto to attain her goal.

Ranka on the other hand, requires a catalyst. Such is her character, which, needless to say, is different from both Alto and Sheryl.

- Tak
I think I can somewhat agree with this stance.
It's not that people are "inconsistant". It's just that their circumstances change.
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Old 2008-11-23, 00:44   Link #1988
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Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
It seems like this thread is coming full circle back to our discussions in June.
And I still stand by those very comments I have made since then.

- Tak

Last edited by Tak; 2008-11-23 at 01:58.
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Old 2008-11-23, 01:49   Link #1989
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*will read all comments later*

Take care darlings. *tosses confetti*
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Old 2008-11-23, 15:20   Link #1990
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Lovely discussion, and it´s nice to see that something is happening again here.

And I´ve caved and begun Dl'ing Gundam Seed and will, later if it is any good, DL Gundam Seed Destiny. Gotta see what that talk about Lacus is all about, after all.
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Old 2008-11-24, 00:43   Link #1991
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Gundam Seed is good, until a certain Mrs thought her hubby doing a bad job by wanting to kill off her favourite character and work her way off into the story as the scriptwriter. GSDisaster is godly (for the first 8 episodes) .. Then evaporate into a pile of shit because stupid fark missus got delusional and never finished the script in time.. prompting the animator to whored off battle scenes with recycled garbage. And the story she cooked up is still garbage.. You cant expect much from delusional peoples.

But I'm still a die hard Lacus fanboy <- the only reason I stayed for 42 episodes of Disasters
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Old 2008-11-24, 02:10   Link #1992
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Sigh...Asucaga..;_;
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Old 2008-11-24, 05:39   Link #1993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiNA View Post
Gundam Seed is good, until a certain Mrs thought her hubby doing a bad job by wanting to kill off her favourite character and work her way off into the story as the scriptwriter. GSDisaster is godly (for the first 8 episodes) .. Then evaporate into a pile of shit because stupid fark missus got delusional and never finished the script in time.. prompting the animator to whored off battle scenes with recycled garbage. And the story she cooked up is still garbage.. You cant expect much from delusional peoples.

But I'm still a die hard Lacus fanboy <- the only reason I stayed for 42 episodes of Disasters
Hm. I´m 33% in and accidentally shut down my PC before running off to work, so I won´t be able to even see what you mean before Wednesday ( at the least ). Not that I´m ungrateful for the information, but is there somewhere a more detailed write-up on what happened? It sounds interesting...
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Old 2008-11-24, 06:11   Link #1994
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PM me if you really wanted spoiler.. this isn't the place for other series talk
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Old 2008-11-24, 16:32   Link #1995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiNA View Post
Gundam Seed is good, until a certain Mrs thought her hubby doing a bad job by wanting to kill off her favourite character and work her way off into the story as the scriptwriter. GSDisaster is godly (for the first 8 episodes) .. Then evaporate into a pile of shit because stupid fark missus got delusional and never finished the script in time.. prompting the animator to whored off battle scenes with recycled garbage. And the story she cooked up is still garbage.. You cant expect much from delusional peoples.

But I'm still a die hard Lacus fanboy <- the only reason I stayed for 42 episodes of Disasters
It's too true, because GSD as it's handled in SRWZ fixes most of the problems with the overall story and I swear even makes fun of how it was handled as a TV series at times. Sheryl is also an amazing take on an idol character compared to Lacus though, I still just really care much for either. Though, at least the former comes across as having a couple of character flaws she has to work out so I think that much can be said for the parts I did like about her character.
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Old 2008-11-25, 05:34   Link #1996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Sigh....apparently it's not enough that I can just say that I find her character irritating, cite my view of her and be done with it, I have to justify my opinion and thoughts on her for some reason. Truthfully I never really cared if anyone replied at all because I know how it goes with this character and what to expect, I was just trying to leave my say in the thread but....
look mate this is discussion board, you say something, give some backing to it, people will counter your comment even if it is a positive one(let alone a negative), and do i need to say we are not super human with ability to read your mind?

like say.. you say i hate i cream! in an ice cream discussion board, and someone who do like ice cream ask you "why" is wrong? if you can't justify your opinion or let alone leave it to bait people countering it without caring at all.. that's called trolling/flamebaiting or whatever that is

you never really care anyone replied at all? don't bother posting then..

leaving your say in the thread and let whatever questions that people ask un answered because your "saying" and your whole idea not caring at all, is not a sign of being mature.

my 2 cent
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Old 2008-11-25, 11:48   Link #1997
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Sigh...Asucaga..;_;
Worst pairing in Gundam Seed story ever. I never wanted a female character to just disappear so bad...
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Old 2008-11-25, 15:43   Link #1998
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Well, Natsuki was kind enough to send me a few scans today, and I decided to share one page (for now) with you guys here, because it is relevant to what we want to know. That, and because I am extremely lazy when told to work on something I am not being paid for, therefore, other pages would have to wait . Although they were not character specific, and most are stuff we already know.

Anyway:



Don't ask me for a Ranka version, there aren't any.

The title here is: The Love between Sheryl and Alto

The paragraph reads:

Initially, Alto did not think Sheryl was anyone special, and their first encounter hardly made a positive impression. In fact, Alto was more irritated than enjoying it. But before long, that begin to change into something else entirely, something very comfortable. Then they realized they were men and women. Being straight forward, they were able to communicate with each other from the bottom of their hearts without guile during the many times they were alone.

On the right is just a basic description of Sheryl, stating how she held the top of the charts with her songs for the past 17 times. Although as a person, she has a lot of pride, but initially lacking coordination in terms of her speech and attitude (we seen this since the first episode). Her memories of her family is almost forgotten, thus her earrings, left to her by her mother, is most important.

(Anyway, usual stuff).

On the right it reads: Although Enduring A Harsh Destiny, She Stood Back Up and Became the True Top Idol

There are some interesting information. She might not be 17, and she might be older. Then again, if that is true, its not surprising. Besides, Alto is 18 in Frontier, Sheryl being slightly older than Alto doesn't really matter to me. In fact, it makes her more attractive.

- Tak
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Old 2008-11-25, 17:24   Link #1999
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Don't ask me for a Ranka version, there aren't any.
No scan, or no page at all? Where is this from by the way?

I mean, you can't be serious. That's just too good to be true. There probably will be one in the future anyway just to give the impression that they're balancing it all out.

Thanks for the info.

And yes, while it's already a given that she's older than Alto and Ranka, I too won't be surprised if she happens to be a bit older than she claims to be. The funny thing is, for me Sheryl seems older than she really is whereas Ranka seems younger.
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Old 2008-11-25, 17:36   Link #2000
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No scan, or no page at all? Where is this from by the way?

I mean, you can't be serious. That's just too good to be true. There probably will be one in the future anyway just to give the impression that they're balancing it all out.
Well, its from Macross Frontier, Official Files.

Yeah, they probably will have a in-depth analysis of Ranka's character, but I doubt it will be done in the same light as Alto and Sheryl's analysis.

- Tak
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