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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 8 Rating
Perfect 10 44 40.74%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 36 33.33%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 12.96%
7 out of 10 : Good 10 9.26%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.85%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.85%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-11-24, 08:11   Link #201
taiga_tiger!
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..i'm so excited..episode 9 is coming..villa, villa, VILLA!!! yayY!
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Old 2008-11-24, 08:24   Link #202
KeitaroNagato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taiga_tiger! View Post
..i'm so excited..episode 9 is coming..villa, villa, VILLA!!! yayY!
we are at the villa ye ye yea!!!

we are at the villa ye ye yea!!!

we are at the villa ye ye yea!!!

we are at the villa ye ye yea!!!

Doing my Mirorin impression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samatarou View Post
Is this the screenshot you were trying to get?
Samatarou - Domo Arigato.

Do u know how to make this picture smaller, so it could be like a signature?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
From what I understand, the novels do focus on the other characters, not just Taiga and Ryuuji.

I don't think she's quite as tsundere about it either, but I'm not totally sure.
I always thought "Tsundere", was a strong female that is undecided about her true feelings towards the other person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
...She's totally a tsundere. Just that she's tsun towards Ryuuji and dere towards Kitamura.

This will probably change eventually.
I believe so, but Taiga is more of a person that also have a double side like Ami-chan. With Kitamura she totally different then with Ryuuji. Mirorin she is more relax, lay back... er... I think she is that way with Ryuuji. It's feel like she enjoy making the class feel afraid, and others that are not consider "close" to her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiHikari View Post
I love the turn of events in this episode. Could it be the beginning of romantic developments between Taiga & Ryuuji? Hehe. I find their concern for each other very endearing. Good materials to head into the summer vacation.

BTW, I don't think Taiga is tsundere, primarily cuz she's not outspoken enough to be considered tsundere. She's just a bully--a big bad bully (minus the "big" part). It's very slick and sneaky when she stripped Ami of her bikini to get a good headstart in the competition. Go TAIGA!
. Like that answer ^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
She is a tsundere. You don't have to be outspoken to be tsundere. Eriko from Kimikiss also is considered to be tsundere though she is far from being outspoken or loud. She just treats the main character both harsh (tsun) and sweet (dere). It's enough for you to act both dere and tsun to be a tsundere...

However it is also needed that both tsun and dere would be part of the same relationship (with the same person(s)). Since Taiga for majority of time was treating Ryuuji badly (tsun) without giving any dere moments to him she wasn't a real tsundere up to this point. Yet with episode 8 she can be considered a full-blown tsundere.

But because of later popularity of the term now tsundere definition became so wide so that now almost any stronger female character can fall into this definition.
Usually tsundere character are indecisive about how they feel towards the other person they love. Yet in Taiga, she is not an indecisive type, she does love Ryuuji, remember the incident at the pool after they pull Ryuuji out, how she reacted when she saw Ami-chan and Ryuuji after the stalker incident. Whatever Taiga says or meant, is the opposite on what she truly feels. She does not want to communicate about her true feelings, yet at the end of episode it seems she is glad that Ryuuji finally understand her a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by taiga_tiger! View Post
"..no one touches him! ryuuji is mine!!!"

LOL
poke.... ryuuji, and runs away.
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Last edited by Pellissier; 2008-11-24 at 13:03. Reason: please use the "edit" button instead of making several consecutive posts in a short timespan
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Old 2008-11-24, 10:55   Link #203
BigJimmy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samatarou View Post
Is this the screenshot you were trying to get?
Now put "Exactly as planned" on there, and we're golden.
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Old 2008-11-24, 11:03   Link #204
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato View Post
I always thought "Tsundere", was a strong female that is undecided about her true feelings towards the other person.
Nope. Very specific moe archetype that practically all of Rie Kugimiya's characters fall into.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tsundere
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Old 2008-11-24, 11:05   Link #205
typhonsentra
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This is probably my most re-watched episode so far too. So many great funny scenes and there's a lot of small details in some of the conversations you may or may not catch on the first view, the one in the rain in particular. I also love that shot where it's Taiga FPS and Ryuuji dangles the food in front of her eyes. Very nice scene direction.
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Old 2008-11-24, 11:12   Link #206
msuwildog80
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I love this episode as well.

Expecially since the translator beat it by a few days and got the anticipation up! By being able to see how the novel works, I have to agree that the anime is doing a fantastic job. As much as I would love a 12 episode series covering 2 novels...

I would much rather have what we have now, so that all the material will be covered.

And yay! Volume 4 coming up, cant wait.
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Old 2008-11-24, 12:39   Link #207
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Taiga is mine!
Kugimia is mine!
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Old 2008-11-24, 12:39   Link #208
Vexx
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tsundere has an original specific meaning that really only eroge software games can emulate (where the term originated). Anime adaptations have to deal with more of the realities of multi-layered characters and when the source material is a light novel or manga .... the author is usually trying to develope a more complex character than a classic tsundere. One of the Shiriashi rants in Lucky*Star addressed this morphing of the word directly.

Other than using the term as a checkpoint - it is somewhat pointless to try and *label* characters -- it is just trying to squeeze more complicated characters into simple boxes.
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Old 2008-11-24, 12:44   Link #209
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But elbelling is for purpose of being helpful as well. Without labels you would not be able to understand what this or that is about in short.

Yes labels do rarely totally match, but they do help to give out a short-information for you to pick, so I view labels as useful.
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Old 2008-11-24, 12:52   Link #210
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well, a "pure" tsundere character is no more popular these days
need multiple elements
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Old 2008-11-24, 12:55   Link #211
Vexx
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Only if everyone has the *same* understanding of a label... I could easily pull you into a several page argument over what "loli" means. The "tv tropes" description of tsundere is quite different than the Wiki version. Any given two japanese otaku could spend an hour arguing over the nuances of the term.

Just because you might be Lithuanian doesn't mean you're going to fit whatever stereotype your neighboring countries have of you.

So its only useful as a starting point as a cardboard figure archetype --- the kind you have to mention when writing academic essays on literature ("Christ metaphors", etc).

The more "tsunderes" I gather in a room, the harder it is to say there's a single "thing" as a tsundere.
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Old 2008-11-24, 13:38   Link #212
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You can improve the understand by the focused and clear description. Something that Tsundere word is lacking, though the core principle still remains - the interaction between dere and tsun.

If you hear word tsundere you know that this someone cannot be a silent shy girl devotionally loving and never saying a word against.

It is rough and allmots all tsundere's do not match the lebel in one or the other aspect but it really helps to deal with the amount of information when you lack of time or when you have too much information to deal with.

Thats the purpose of labels - to help to adopt the situation better, faster, even iof you do not have a 'deep' understanding of the situation.

In this case term tsundere is useful even if a meaning that you put to a word is different from the other it cannot be a total opposite.
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Old 2008-11-24, 13:52   Link #213
BetoJR
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I find labeling to be a very poor mark of character. Sometimes, we resort to it, in order to over simplify our impressions. In sum, I neither like nor condone it. In regards to works of fiction, it is pandering to the lowest common denominator. In real life, it's cause for horrible fights.
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Old 2008-11-24, 14:19   Link #214
BigJimmy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post

The more "tsunderes" I gather in a room, the harder it is to say there's a single "thing" as a tsundere.
The inevitable epic bitch fight that would break out with all those tsunderes in one room would make for some great viewing though
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Old 2008-11-24, 15:22   Link #215
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Other than using the term as a checkpoint - it is somewhat pointless to try and *label* characters -- it is just trying to squeeze more complicated characters into simple boxes.
I disagree. Unlike people in real life, fictional character are infinitely less complex and therefore often benefit from having a label, as a basis for character growth.

Of course, characters that do not fit into neat little boxes are awesome, but few writers are actually skilled enough or confident enough with their skill to create such a character.

Also, I do think that a character growing out of the box is a mark of excellent writing, even if the creator started by using said box for the character. Like, you know, what I've heard that Toradora does.

...I hope the novels are translated faster.

Lastly, as I have said before, Shiraishi's rant kind of ignores the fact that language has a tendency to mutate like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
I find labeling to be a very poor mark of character. Sometimes, we resort to it, in order to over simplify our impressions. In sum, I neither like nor condone it. In regards to works of fiction, it is pandering to the lowest common denominator. In real life, it's cause for horrible fights.
See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimmy View Post
The inevitable epic bitch fight that would break out with all those tsunderes in one room would make for some great viewing though
I do agree. Best catfight ever.
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Old 2008-11-24, 15:28   Link #216
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BetoJR, labels or steroetypes are unavoidable there isn't a single person without a stereotype as long as he is part of human socium.

They may be the cause of conflicts but they also help in everyday functions. A lot of stereotypes exist without us even knowing that they are steroetypes and so on.

Labelling and steroetype are a helpful mean to survive in information society and we all have them, some more obvious, some hiden ones but you would not be able to function in society without them. There are quite a few good sociology books regarding this theme. Baudrillard may be too extreme but Gadamer and his direction specialists give a pretty good analysis of it.

Yet the label should only help to find a direction isntead of being a form and purpose. Then we are reaching an extreme but as long as we keep a healthy medium it is fine.

If we are talking about anime then as Kaisos Erranon mentioned a lot of characters are even more simplistic than real life humans. yes there are deep ones but they are constructed artificially thus a stereotype was the first start of it, the basis then the author creates situation to make a character break out of the box. While talking of that character and using a lebell we put it back into a box but thats only for information purposes. A sort of direction giver.
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Old 2008-11-24, 16:05   Link #217
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I like how this thread has turned into an analysis on the social phenomenon of human stereotyping, how it pertains to literature and media, as well as how this phenomenon changes & morphs over time.

In any event, Toradora is interesting in that it has multifaceted characters, and deals with certain things in a slightly different style than one has already come to expect. For instance, I expected Taiga to have her crush on Kitamura unknown to him for at least half the season. When she confessed to him by the second episode, my expectations for the show were completely blown out of the water, and I had no idea how to possibly gauge how future events may play out.
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Old 2008-11-24, 17:20   Link #218
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Well, as pertains the facilities provided by stereotyping, I'll leave each of you to your own ideas. I've stated my piece, and even when doing so, I'm not out to force it on anyone - and this is hardly the place for such a discussion, anyway.

So, let's all agree to disagree and move on, shall we?
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Old 2008-11-24, 17:38   Link #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato View Post
Samatarou - Domo Arigato.
Do u know how to make this picture smaller, so it could be like a signature?
(Response to that bit moved to sig request thread)


Returning to the discussion, on the tsundere thing, I'm in the camp that doesn't think of Taiga as tsundere, but rather as someone who's emotionally out of control with her wild mood swings. I just don't see her as the same character type as people like Kagami or Naru Narusegawa, she's too psychotic and random. I also agree with MaiHikari that a tsundere should be more verbal in their tsun'ing and not just bully people.
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Last edited by Samatarou; 2008-11-24 at 18:13.
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Old 2008-11-24, 19:48   Link #220
Beo
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She sounds like my sister. She grew up with three boy's and learned early on to defend herself. It's like we beat-up on her, we just got into rowdy wrestling matches over stupid things and she got dragged into them.
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