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Old 2008-08-30, 23:25   Link #1341
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightViper88 View Post
Then you're not even an Atheist; You're just an Antireligionist (And yes, there is such a technical term)...

I hate it when people claim that they're Atheist when they're actually Antireligionists, against the entire concept of religion itself...True Athiests are actually open to the concept of religion, but deny the existence of any higher deity such as God...
Not really, atheists just deny the existence of the divine. Their attitudes to religion do not affect their atheistic status.

They could be atheists but consider religion positively essential for maintaining society and admirable to human development, for example; or like him they can be rabidly anti-clerical. It doesn't matter either way as long as the definition of atheism, in its simplest dictionary form (as opposed to a philosophy or somesuch).
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Old 2008-08-30, 23:34   Link #1342
MidnightViper88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Not really, atheists just deny the existence of the divine. Their attitudes to religion do not affect their atheistic status.

They could be atheists but consider religion positively essential for maintaining society and admirable to human development, for example; or like him they can be rabidly anti-clerical. It doesn't matter either way as long as the definition of atheism, in its simplest dictionary form (as opposed to a philosophy or somesuch).
Uhh, check my post again; You're saying in that many words what I just said in a short sentence...

Of course, it makes me wonder what degree of an antireligionist he would be, since he specifically singles out Christianity as the reason to his "Atheism", when there are two other Abrahamic religions next to Christianity, and the popular Eastern religions as well...
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Old 2008-08-31, 04:52   Link #1343
Echoes
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Quote:
Not really, atheists just deny the existence of the divine. Their attitudes to religion do not affect their atheistic status.
Truth. Whatever you choose to do after you've decided you don't believe in God does in no way affect your atheism. There is no "true atheist", there's no doctrine other than disbelief or denial of Gods.

I am an atheist and an anti-theist, and I am particularly unimpessed with the Abrahamic faiths.
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Old 2008-08-31, 05:32   Link #1344
MidnightViper88
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Semantics

Atheism does not always equal anti-theism; That's what I'm trying to get at, since people throw around the term "Atheism" loosely as a generic description of such by generally being anti-theistic without even being specific with their outlook on the existence of a deity, understood that if they're anti-theistic, they also disbelieve in a god, or their opinion of the existence of a god is a non-issue in the first place, being generally anti-theistic first and last...

The core of an Atheist is to deny the existence of a god; Makkusu simply hates Christianity in general, so the term "Atheist" in that application might or might not even be proper in the first place, if he just hates the concept of Christianity itself...

I'm not talking about philosophical points, I'm nit-picking terms, since there is a difference between being an Atheist and being an Antireligionist...
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Old 2008-08-31, 05:47   Link #1345
Zoned87
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I have no real faith in anything, I wouldn't call myself an "athiest" as I would like to believe there is something else out there.

But I seriously have doubts
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Old 2008-08-31, 06:25   Link #1346
Echoes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightViper88 View Post
Semantics

Atheism does not always equal anti-theism; That's what I'm trying to get at, since people throw around the term "Atheism" loosely as a generic description of such by generally being anti-theistic without even being specific with their outlook on the existence of a deity, understood that if they're anti-theistic, they also disbelieve in a god, or their opinion of the existence of a god is a non-issue in the first place, being generally anti-theistic first and last.
Granted, we are in complete agreement. They are distinct terms, and you can certainly be either one without being the other. I think this might tie into the belief some people seem to have, that there are no real atheists, just people who hate God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightViper88 View Post

The core of an Atheist is to deny the existence of a god.
Disbelief is enough, denying it is not a necessity. Most atheists are also agnostics, on some level. The terms strong and weak atheist are also thrown around at times, strong atheism being people who claim they know for certain that there's no God. Most reasonable atheists just think there's no evidence to support the claim, and live their life assuming there's no God.

But yeah, this is all semantics. I think it's important to figure out what kind of definitions we're working with, though, otherwise it'll be hard to have a meaningful discussion.

Edit: Also, none of what I'm saying is in defense or relation to anything Makkusu may or may not believe. If he indeed just dislikes Christianity, that would not make him an atheist, but I'm not going to put any words in his mouth.
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Old 2008-08-31, 16:20   Link #1347
Skullchukka
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I was born in a Muslim country, yet I'm not a Muslim If the people that claim to be one are.

I can say pretty much my religion is not a part of my life, I sometimes question stuff about religions, then I find myself believing a creator, but not any religions.
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Old 2008-08-31, 16:39   Link #1348
solomon
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Agnostic here. In real terms, I'm secular, jury is still out if there is a god or not.

God is code for many different things in different religions. I admire certain tenants of many religions but abhore fundamentalism of any stripe (even secular)
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Old 2008-09-01, 04:20   Link #1349
HiroInazuma
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Christian born and raised! I believed in God for as long as I can remember and there is nothing really anyone can say or do to make me change!
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Old 2008-09-01, 06:27   Link #1350
Agent Orange
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I'm not religious.

Apatheist/Atheist. I'm very unconvinced of the existence of anything supernatural.
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Old 2008-09-07, 13:55   Link #1351
lethal_lunacy77
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I supposed I could be deemed a pantheist...but I call myself atheist
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Old 2008-11-27, 15:05   Link #1352
Ilija
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I'm an atheist. I don't mind the existance of religion but I simply don't believe in God.
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Old 2008-11-27, 15:15   Link #1353
Narona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiraishin View Post
I'm an atheist. I don't mind the existance of religion but I simply don't believe in God.
I quote you but don't take it personally since there are a many messages like this one apparently.

Some people seem to have not understood the subject of this thread. the question is not" are you religious?" but "what is your religion?"

Just posting to say that a person doesn't believe in god and blablabla is offtopic, don't you think? I don't see the point of jumping in that thread just to say "i am not religious".
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Old 2008-11-27, 15:47   Link #1354
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
I quote you but don't take it personally since there are a many messages like this one apparently.

Some people seem to have not understood the subject of this thread. the question is not" are you religious?" but "what is your religion?"

Just posting to say that a person doesn't believe in god and blablabla is offtopic, don't you think? I don't see the point of jumping in that thread just to say "i am not religious".
The definition of religion does not necessarily mean a belief in a god or other supernatural forces.

Quote:
re⋅li⋅gion
   /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ S [ri-lij-uhn]
noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
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Old 2008-11-27, 15:58   Link #1355
Narona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
The definition of religion does not necessarily mean a belief in a god or other supernatural forces.
Yeah, but it was not what the OPoster meant I think.

I fail to see how does it serves the discussion to just come here to point out a blatant "I don't believe in god" (it's an example). But maybe it's just me.
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Old 2008-11-27, 16:01   Link #1356
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Yeah, but it was not what the OPoster meant I think.

I fail to see how does it serves the discussion to just come here to point out a blatant "I don't believe in god" (it's an example). But maybe it's just me.
And how does it serve the discussion if someone comes in here saying he's Christian and believes in God? Is there a difference?
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Old 2008-11-27, 16:06   Link #1357
ganbaru
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''Born'' catholic ( you don't choose your fate when you are soo young).

Now , I don't follow any Religion.
But if I had to pick something, I would say than Spinoza was probably the one closest of the True.

Do it make me a bad person??
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Old 2008-11-27, 17:36   Link #1358
LeoXiao
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I don't follow any one religion. But I believe in higher intelligence and principles that could be considered godlike, and I think most religions have teachings that are generally good to follow (with a grain of salt of course).
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Old 2008-11-27, 19:51   Link #1359
u43368
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Cosmicist. To be honest, it's kind of a philosophy but I think it can count as a religion too.

I find the idea of cosmic indifference to make a whole lot of sense.
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Old 2008-11-28, 00:31   Link #1360
Edgewalker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightViper88 View Post
I hate it when people claim that they're Atheist when they're actually Antireligionists, against the entire concept of religion itself...True Athiests are actually open to the concept of religion, but deny the existence of any higher deity such as God...
Not really. Atheism has no defined official book or set of philosophical beliefs/doctrines that must be followed. If you don't believe in a god, you are an atheist. If you hate religion and you don't believe in god, you are an atheist that hates organized religion. There is no "True" atheist. The only thing that comes close is weak atheism vs strong atheism, which was already mentioned somewhere else.
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