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Old 2008-11-02, 13:48   Link #121
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Your definition of Haki is pretty good, I think you can use that as a first hand explanation to most people. If they can't connect your definition to what they're seeing, you can easily expand from the definition as it highlights the main factors and meanings of the word.
Thanks for your reply. I've been reading all of your posts about Haki and you are certainly very knowledgeable when it comes to it. I find that it is a very simple concept to understand, really.
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Old 2008-11-02, 16:29   Link #122
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Originally Posted by ellifeedn View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but haki and sakki are not able to do "physical" harm to people, living things, and inanimate objects and instead weaken the wills of others.
"Correct me if I'm wrong", you said?

Verdict? WRONG!!!

Haki damaged a ship. I don't see any better way to demonstrate physical damage.

You should just read over this thread, and do this: IGNORE all other posts except Blackbeard D Kuma's, MarvelB's, and C.A.'s. The rest are pure nonsense, to some extent. Either way, you'd want to consolidate the right ideas in your head first, and then go over and scoff at the others.


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Originally Posted by ellifeedn View Post
Off-topic: After following all the haki talk, with the occasional sakki mention, I thought about applying such concepts to other series for kicks. Amazing how much one can describe whole situations in terms of haki and sakki. For example, I applied the concepts to Elfen Lied and found in general overview that the series has massive sakki levels that go off the charts.
I got lost around the elfen-thing, so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackNhite View Post
Alright, let's be done with this "supply and demand" theory of Haki and move on to something else.

So, we've been shown throughout Luffy's fight with Sonia and Marygold that Haki comes in a variety of types. From hardening weapons, predicting movement, overwhelming opponents, and even, at least I think she used Haki, lighting oneself on fire...

So I bring up an argument, does Haki have any limits?
Or is it something completely subject to the will of the user?
Not different types, but different manifestations. It's the same Haki, but used and focused for different goals. Haki doesn't come in different types, unless you're talking about the Haoushoku, and all that stuff. But that's different levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Thanks for your reply. I've been reading all of your posts about Haki and you are certainly very knowledgeable when it comes to it. I find that it is a very simple concept to understand, really.
Yeah, I found that small bit of writing pretty much condensed the whole thing pretty accurately.
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Old 2008-11-03, 10:13   Link #123
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Originally Posted by holypanl View Post
Not different types, but different manifestations. It's the same Haki, but used and focused for different goals. Haki doesn't come in different types, unless you're talking about the Haoushoku, and all that stuff. But that's different levels.
So, your saying Haki is more along the lines of a spiritual Rokushiki; there are different levels, but it's all essentially the same art?

That's interesting, it makes for a parallel between the physical(Rokushiki) and the spiritual(Haki). It's like an east and west metaphor, though I doubt Oda meant for his six form style to be taken that far.
Then again, with the CP9 cover chapters...
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Old 2008-11-03, 10:41   Link #124
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Well here's how I view the strength of Haki:

People can be strong or weak willed. There are people who are stubborn, people who are strong in their opinions, people who are very determined in their ways. There's also people who are easily swayed, choose to avoid than to face problems, do not like competition and thus avoid, also there are people who give up easily.

These different characters with different strengths in their wills, give them Haki of different strengths.

Then there's also other factors, such as their driving force.

People have different dreams and ambitions. If one only wants to enjoy peace by living a simple life, there's no need for an extremely strong will. If one wants to be extremely successful in life and wants the best, he gives his all to achieve that and has a strong will.

Then there's alternatives. If one lives in a chaotic environment, but all he wants is a peaceful and simple life, he will fight with all his will to get out of the chaos. If one only dreams of having a luxurious life, but he is lazy, he has a weak will and thus will most likely not achieve the dream.

The concept of Haki allows characters to be strong or weak based on their characters, interaction with others, upbringing and environments.
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Old 2008-11-03, 12:17   Link #125
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C.A. For one Piece i belive its better if you adjust your reasoning and theories slightly. There is 1 thing thats wrong about the way you explain things that makes things harder then needed to understand for most.

The way you argue you go on how Haki is in everyone etc, while true in the sense "everyone has a inner Haki" Its a huge differance being able to use ones Haki and not being able to. Please try to stick around those that are capable. Because Luffy havent been really using Haki at all intil now, and if he had he wouldent have lost like he have been doing. To Luffy "Haki" is rather new, and has just recently "Becomme strong enough to have a outward effect on other's". While you can argue how even a child has Haki determind by ones belived etc and that shapes them that just gets wrong.

Haki becommes the result OF your Personality, Ambision etc. But Its also a huge differance being confident and set on becomming say the Pirate King then knowing that desire to ones soul, basicly strong enough that it can take a "Physical form" Bad term i know. You generaly explain the prinsiple of Haki well, but so far its way to "Rational" and latly youve been drifting off, your earlier posts on the topic was much better then your recent. Like you go on about Differance in will etc, that becommes wrong in a one piece setting. Its "ONES WILL TO" not the differance that will be important, What i mean is the only time differances matter's is against Goons and Grunts, no Important Figure will really get the same clash.

And sadly also as a reminder. This is about Haki in One Piece, not the real life equlant, and I belive the issue of what its based on has been done more then good enough by you already C.A. no point of just draging it on more. Why not join and change the direction of the thread ? Like How does the Elements of Haki known so far work ? Try to go into theories of the abilities of Haki more, impact of Haki on story, How common will it be ? What other variants of Haki could be seen ?. For the One Piece issue this will be much more relevant since youve cleared the issue really of what Haki is based around. Its not your fault if new reader's dont read your prior posts. Just refer to them instead of repeating over and over. I tried to change the direction before with my "Haki vs Logia" post on a piror page, but nothing really sparked from it, It even got called Pointless or was it stupid ? I dont recall but this thread is starting to Stall and becomme nothing but a repetive feast of the same things over and over, and Honestly. The Haki in one piece "wont be that heavy" it will be made "Easy to understand" and explained around in not to great manner but good enough the general reader understands it. We just havent reached that point in the manga yet, and if one wonder why. Its because the Target Group for one piece aint oldiest above 20 like us C.A. But targets the groupings mainly bellow us, which will get a short introduction to the topic just like we have gotten for instance with the CP9 Abilties.
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Old 2008-11-03, 13:00   Link #126
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I get what you mean, but probably we view it a little different, as in the maturity of One Piece fans.

I believe One Piece is no longer targeting younger audience as it had been 10 years ago. And this ties to why Haki is only revealed now.

Firstly Haki is actually a word that can be used and is used in real and daily life. This is the one main factor that separates it from other power ups such as Reiatsu, Chakra and Spiral Energy. Its the human spirit and lifeforce itself.

And for why One Piece is no longer just a shonen that targets, shonen. And how Haki being slowly revealed is related to that.

I believe One Piece is a story that grows with its original fans and for 10 years, its safe to say most every fan is a mature teenager or adult. And its why Haki is only slowly introduced, is because Oda wants the readers to mature with the story and understand Haki in a mature way.

And Haki doesn't matter only to weak willed 'goons and grunts'. In fact it is that tiny difference that when 2 people of strong Haki clash, that will decide the results. There are times in competition, when it comes to the final round, it will be that slight difference that will decide the winner.

When 2 people are aiming for the same thing and they want it so badly, they will do anything for it. Only the one who's more relentless, determined and willing, will achieve the goal.
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Old 2008-11-03, 13:45   Link #127
Sordes Pilosus
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Im not saying i really disagree with you here. Like, I to feel that One Piece is alot more mature now then the first chapter's where. Its a drastic differance even. But the "Simplicity" of One Piece hasent changed. Enies Lobby and Thriller Park aint to old settings, there we did get a good explenation of the CP9 Skills, and in Thriller Park most things where well explained also. Oda has a good habit in not leaving alot of lose ends that doesent have a "plan to it" that he will return to. Its this main thing i want to point out. Oda wont explain things as heavily as you go on here, which honestly not many here is capable of following well i think. I like reading the replies because Im like already 23 and enjoy these deep conversations and topics alot. But generaly for now its not doing much good, its pretty much made a heavy cloud over this topic that makes few really willing to take part.

This is where i mean that its better to "change the direction" of the topic some so we can bring in possible new light. And getting say your explenations on alot of these issues would help advance your own viewpoint also. It would just however bring some new life to the topic, since recently as mentioned. Its been rather repeative.
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Old 2008-11-03, 13:57   Link #128
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Originally Posted by Sordes Pilosus View Post
Im not saying i really disagree with you here. Like, I to feel that One Piece is alot more mature now then the first chapter's where. Its a drastic differance even. But the "Simplicity" of One Piece hasent changed. Enies Lobby and Thriller Park aint to old settings, there we did get a good explenation of the CP9 Skills, and in Thriller Park most things where well explained also. Oda has a good habit in not leaving alot of lose ends that doesent have a "plan to it" that he will return to. Its this main thing i want to point out. Oda wont explain things as heavily as you go on here, which honestly not many here is capable of following well i think. I like reading the replies because Im like already 23 and enjoy these deep conversations and topics alot. But generaly for now its not doing much good, its pretty much made a heavy cloud over this topic that makes few really willing to take part.

This is where i mean that its better to "change the direction" of the topic some so we can bring in possible new light. And getting say your explenations on alot of these issues would help advance your own viewpoint also. It would just however bring some new life to the topic, since recently as mentioned. Its been rather repeative.
I see, yes really lol, I think I'm getting repetitive also and I think you're making a good point for me to finally have a red light on my own ramblings.

But do also know, which I think you mentioned as well, that I've been repeating myself because there are still a good number of people who don't understand Haki. Maybe its because I've seen those people on AP who have tons of wrong ideas. I don't actually post there, just taking a peek every now and then. But honestly, one reason I'm spamming so much on Haki here because I hope that it will slowly 'leak' to other places lol

And now it seems it really has reached a saturation point here on AS, so I don't really need to repeat my Haki ramblings anymore lol

So yea, you are correct that we should discuss Haki in other aspects.

One thing I feel about Oda's method of story telling is that its always simple with very deep meanings. He tackled stuff like politics and such long time ago and it was also simple to understand but carried important and deep messages. So I have a tendency to carry a deeper mind to discuss this 'shonen'.
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Old 2008-11-03, 14:39   Link #129
Sordes Pilosus
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Indeed he has. In a sense he has even started to bring in the "Sexual" or "Feelings" aspect some more recently also. But lets see. How about we list up some possible topics we can discuss for Haki and make a list, Discuss a topic a "Weekly" Basis ? From Chapter to Chapter ? Since alot of new information could come up each time. And a week is long enough for really most to take part and for us to have a good discussion over aleast a page or two. If im to suggest a first topic, it would probably be Marigold and Sandersonia, those two and Haki. Not Boa, not really Luffy or Shanks etc. But Discuss the Haki thats been revealed through these two. Other interesting topics can be "Margaret and Haki", "Houshouko", "Other Crew Members ?", "Haki vs Devil Fruits" etc. The challange will be to explain it simple enough for most to follow. But generaly, we have qute the list we can start looking into topics on.
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Old 2008-11-05, 18:06   Link #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sordes Pilosus View Post
C.A. For one Piece i belive its better if you adjust your reasoning and theories slightly. There is 1 thing thats wrong about the way you explain things that makes things harder then needed to understand for most.

The way you argue you go on how Haki is in everyone etc, while true in the sense "everyone has a inner Haki" Its a huge differance being able to use ones Haki and not being able to. Please try to stick around those that are capable. Because Luffy havent been really using Haki at all intil now, and if he had he wouldent have lost like he have been doing. To Luffy "Haki" is rather new, and has just recently "Becomme strong enough to have a outward effect on other's". While you can argue how even a child has Haki determind by ones belived etc and that shapes them that just gets wrong.
Actually no. I agree with C.A.'s definition of Haki. It is something that is inherent within everyone. However, only those who have developed this will and determination will be able to manifest it outwardly.

And Luffy had used Haki prior to the Kuja arc. Remember he used it on Duval's bison creature? All the time before that it was growing in power and strength.

Quote:
And sadly also as a reminder. This is about Haki in One Piece, not the real life equlant, and I belive the issue of what its based on has been done more then good enough by you already C.A. no point of just draging it on more. Why not join and change the direction of the thread ? Like How does the Elements of Haki known so far work ? Try to go into theories of the abilities of Haki more, impact of Haki on story, How common will it be ? What other variants of Haki could be seen ?. For the One Piece issue this will be much more relevant since youve cleared the issue really of what Haki is based around. Its not your fault if new reader's dont read your prior posts. Just refer to them instead of repeating over and over. I tried to change the direction before with my "Haki vs Logia" post on a piror page, but nothing really sparked from it, It even got called Pointless or was it stupid ? I dont recall but this thread is starting to Stall and becomme nothing but a repetive feast of the same things over and over, and Honestly. The Haki in one piece "wont be that heavy" it will be made "Easy to understand" and explained around in not to great manner but good enough the general reader understands it. We just havent reached that point in the manga yet, and if one wonder why. Its because the Target Group for one piece aint oldiest above 20 like us C.A. But targets the groupings mainly bellow us, which will get a short introduction to the topic just like we have gotten for instance with the CP9 Abilties.
There are no known Elemental forms of Haki so far...it doesn't come in elements...

It's will...ambition...sheerspirit and force of will...

The manga never stated that it comes in elements. So far its all been pure and neutral, element wise.
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Old 2008-11-05, 21:44   Link #131
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Does it seem possible that Doflamingo is able to use Haki to control people like puppets?
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Old 2008-11-24, 10:35   Link #132
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Originally Posted by ellifeedn View Post
Does it seem possible that Doflamingo is able to use Haki to control people like puppets?
It's late in the story and he's yet to really be explained at all as a character... it's a definite possibility.
The same could be said for Mihawk, "No ordinary man could carve up a ship like that without some kind of fraky power," to quote Don Krieg.

Haki, as it stands right now, has no limits to it's capabilities. With the rise in technology on the Marine's end of the spectrum, we can expect just as much force as a counter on the Haki side.
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Old 2008-11-24, 15:50   Link #133
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It's very hard to distinguish Devil Fruit Powers with Haki powers. I could have sworn I heard that Don Flamingo's powers were that of the Devil Fruit's, but I could be mistaken. The first Haki powers I ever encountered in the series (and could be the first time we actually see them) is when Shanks was sitting in the morning, with a cloud over his head. However of course that brightened up as he saw Luffy's wanted poster.

Were there any Haki powers before that?
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Old 2008-11-24, 19:03   Link #134
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It's very hard to distinguish Devil Fruit Powers with Haki powers. I could have sworn I heard that Don Flamingo's powers were that of the Devil Fruit's, but I could be mistaken. The first Haki powers I ever encountered in the series (and could be the first time we actually see them) is when Shanks was sitting in the morning, with a cloud over his head. However of course that brightened up as he saw Luffy's wanted poster.

Were there any Haki powers before that?
In response to your question, people have speculated that Haki was revealed as early as chapter one with Shanks fending off that Sea King using only his aura...
I've already theorized that Mihawk may use Haki and there seems to be some kind of connection between Haki and Mantara.

Again, we just don't have enough pieces of the puzzle yet.

Also, it's unknown whether or not Doflamingo's powers are Devil Fruit or Haki related, Oda simply refuses to reveal that to us.
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"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.

"It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.

"Your playing small does not serve the world, there is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.

"We were all meant to shine as children do.

"It's not just in some of us, it's in everyone.

"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give others permission to do the same.

"As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."
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Old 2008-11-24, 19:06   Link #135
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Originally Posted by BlackNhite View Post
In response to your question, people have speculated that Haki was revealed as early as chapter one with Shanks fending off that Sea King using only his aura...
I've already theorized that Mihawk may use Haki and there seems to be some kind of connection between Haki and Mantara.

Again, we just don't have enough pieces of the puzzle yet.

Also, it's unknown whether or not Doflamingo's powers are Devil Fruit or Haki related, Oda simply refuses to reveal that to us.
Maybe... just maybe.. Doflamingo's abilities are a combination of Haki and DF abilities? He uses both simultaneously, powering each other up.
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Old 2008-11-24, 19:09   Link #136
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Maybe... just maybe.. Doflamingo's abilities are a combination of Haki and DF abilities? He uses both simultaneously, powering each other up.
Then that would make him a great opponent for Luffy; two DF Haki users.
There's got to be a good reason why Oda's held off on him as a character for so long now.
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"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.

"It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.

"Your playing small does not serve the world, there is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.

"We were all meant to shine as children do.

"It's not just in some of us, it's in everyone.

"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give others permission to do the same.

"As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."
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Old 2008-11-24, 19:12   Link #137
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Originally Posted by BlackNhite View Post
Then that would make him a great opponent for Luffy; two DF Haki users.
There's got to be a good reason why Oda's held off on him as a character for so long now.
I thought it was because he was the main armchair villan of the series? Those never come out until the final confrontation.
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Old 2008-11-24, 19:35   Link #138
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Originally Posted by OtseisRagnarok View Post
I thought it was because he was the main armchair villan of the series? Those never come out until the final confrontation.
But he hasn't really done anything.
The only thing we know for sure about Doflamingo is that he set the record for highest known bounty in the entire series, so we know he's a dangerous customer.
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"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.

"It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.

"Your playing small does not serve the world, there is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.

"We were all meant to shine as children do.

"It's not just in some of us, it's in everyone.

"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give others permission to do the same.

"As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."
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Old 2008-11-29, 23:17   Link #139
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Shanks has also mastered that ability "Haki".
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Old 2008-11-29, 23:31   Link #140
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Shanks has also mastered that ability "Haki".
Is haki really somethin that can be mastered so easily, if at all?
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