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Old 2008-11-30, 01:41   Link #1041
WanderingKnight
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I don't really know how the whole nuke thing really works. I mean, if Pakistan counterattacks with nukes, what makes them think India won't use their nukes, either? It's not as easy as it seems.
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Old 2008-11-30, 01:44   Link #1042
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
I don't really know how the whole nuke thing really works. I mean, if Pakistan counterattacks with nukes, what makes them think India won't use their nukes, either? It's not as easy as it seems.
Mutually Assured Destruction. No country in the world can afford a nuclear war, even if they have nuclear weapons to retaliate. Still, many people I know share the same opinion - that attacking Pakistan might very well be a move that the Indian government would consider, its just not my opinion.
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Old 2008-11-30, 01:45   Link #1043
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Mutually Assured Destruction. No country in the world can afford a nuclear war, even if they have nuclear weapons to retaliate.
But that's exactly my point. I'm sure India won't be foolish enough to attempt annexing the whole of Pakistan (I wouldn't think it's their desire, either), so why would Pakistan risk a complete destruction by using their nukes?
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Old 2008-11-30, 01:54   Link #1044
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Say, if WWII were purely due to economic problems, I don't see why Germany attacked the USSR, a move that ensured her defeat.

And I lol at Pakistans not using their nukes if on verge of losing. Ever heard of total war?
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Old 2008-11-30, 01:55   Link #1045
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
But that's exactly my point. I'm sure India won't be foolish enough to attempt annexing the whole of Pakistan (I wouldn't think it's their desire, either), so why would Pakistan risk a complete destruction by using their nukes?
Well sure, thats how it is if you think about it logically. As soon as you start a war with Pakistan the threat of nuclear war appears. just the fact that either country can use nuclear weapons is enough to stop either country from starting a full fledged war. Just what if, what if either country used their nuclear weapons, no matter how slim the chance is? Once a war starts, theres no way you can ensure that it wont happen. Its definetly definetly not worth the risk. Once again, this is just my point of view.
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Old 2008-11-30, 02:02   Link #1046
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Death toll and finger-pointing aside, Mumbai's "9/11" will have chilling implications for defence establishments throughout the region.

This is the first time that a terrorist cell has pulled off such a blatant frontal attack on civilians and public buildings, and it amply demonstrates the severe operational difficulties of preventing and coping with such low-scale attacks on a crowded urban environment.

I'd be very surprised if senior officers in my country's armed forces aren't studying the proceedings and aftermath of India's response very closely at this very moment, to draw some important lessons with regard to Singapore's defence.
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Old 2008-11-30, 02:09   Link #1047
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Death toll and finger-pointing aside, Mumbai's "9/11" will have chilling implications for defence establishments throughout the region.

This is the first time that a terrorist cell has pulled off such a blatant frontal attack on civilians and public buildings, and it amply demonstrates the severe operational difficulties of preventing and coping with such low-scale attacks on a crowded urban environment.

I'd be very surprised if senior officers in my country's armed forces aren't studying the proceedings and aftermath of India's response very closely at this very moment, to draw some important lessons with regard to Singapore's defence.
Mumbai got pretty lucky actually.. They uncovered 16 kgs of RDX. i suppose if all of it was used somewhere between 2000-5000 people wouldve died. Indias Union Home Minister has just resigned, after taking responsibility for failure to cope with the attacks.
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Old 2008-11-30, 09:18   Link #1048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Death toll and finger-pointing aside, Mumbai's "9/11" will have chilling implications for defence establishments throughout the region.

This is the first time that a terrorist cell has pulled off such a blatant frontal attack on civilians and public buildings, and it amply demonstrates the severe operational difficulties of preventing and coping with such low-scale attacks on a crowded urban environment.

I'd be very surprised if senior officers in my country's armed forces aren't studying the proceedings and aftermath of India's response very closely at this very moment, to draw some important lessons with regard to Singapore's defence.
When I was in Singapore, it just happened that Mas Selamat escaped from Changi Prison. Now I know what the Selamat ~ jokes are about in Malaysia. Everyone can learn a lesson from the Mumbai incident.
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Old 2008-12-01, 02:03   Link #1049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
Say, if WWII were purely due to economic problems, I don't see why Germany attacked the USSR, a move that ensured her defeat.

And I lol at Pakistans not using their nukes if on verge of losing. Ever heard of total war?
Short answer why they attacked is "oil fields in south USSR" ... the Germans hoped to get there, grab them and then negotiate a truce if they hadn't finished mopping up Britain. They had an unusually bad winter (mud) - or they quite probably would have succeeded even allowing for the time wasted in the Sealion operation.

Using nukes invokes the possibility of cultural suicide... not just a bunch of people - but the whole entirety of a culture. Fortunately, most governments are run by or staffed by people that think about that.
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Old 2008-12-01, 11:43   Link #1050
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Short answer why they attacked is "oil fields in south USSR" ... the Germans hoped to get there, grab them and then negotiate a truce if they hadn't finished mopping up Britain.
economic reasons were a part, but not all of it. e.g. three other reasons were:1) the general Nazi Lebensraum ideology had involved expanding the Reich to the Slavic territories for a long time, 2) Bolshevism was seen as the archenemy and 3) the Soviet system was considered very pro-Jewish and thus an enemy to the Nazi dogmas.


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They had an unusually bad winter (mud) - or they quite probably would have succeeded even allowing for the time wasted in the Sealion operation.
you mean the Eastern front or the planned invasion of the UK?
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Old 2008-12-01, 17:47   Link #1051
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Quote:
economic reasons were a part, but not all of it. e.g. three other reasons were:1) the general Nazi Lebensraum ideology had involved expanding the Reich to the Slavic territories for a long time, 2) Bolshevism was seen as the archenemy and 3) the Soviet system was considered very pro-Jewish and thus an enemy to the Nazi dogmas.
Germany and the Soviet Union actually signed a non-aggression pact in the beginning of the war. Conflict between them came much later.

I mean, it's nice and all to try to explain things by ideology and stuff, but at the end of the day the practical reasons always are the better ones when trying to fully explain any given event.
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Old 2008-12-01, 20:13   Link #1052
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Originally Posted by Mumitroll View Post
you mean the Eastern front or the planned invasion of the UK?
I meant the weather conditions on the Eastern Front during the first winter (and some of the second winter). It was separately not a lot of help that the nazi political leaders wasted resources even early on in the western theater that could have been used in the east.

Generally, I find that behind every "glorious ideology" or "righteous theology" throughout history there lurks banal greedy economic or resource drivers. "Follow the money" in other words...

But we're digressing from "news stories" --- this would be "history chatter"...
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Old 2008-12-01, 21:24   Link #1053
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http://voanews.com/english/2008-12-01-voa37.cfm

President-elect Barack Obama has selected his former Democrat rival Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State.

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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
But we're digressing from "news stories" --- this would be "history chatter"...
Although this thread is "news stories", the discussion is more like "History 101".
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Old 2008-12-01, 22:22   Link #1054
Hari Michiru
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Canada: Coalition set to topple present government

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/canad...ent-government

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TAWA (Reuters) - Canada's three opposition parties have reached a tentative deal to defeat the minority Conservative government and then put together a coalition to rule for 2-1/2 years, television networks said on Monday.

They said the deal was struck very late on Sunday at the end of three days of talks between the opposition Liberals and New Democrats, who insist the government must go because it has failed to tackle the effects of the global financial crisis.

A spokesman for the New Democrats said the reports "seemed to be accurate, more or less" but declined to give details.

Parliament is due to hold a confidence vote on Dec 8 and if the government loses, the opposition parties are likely to get their chance to run the country.

The 2-1/2 year lifetime of the proposed coalition is highly ambitious since the Liberals and New Democrats would have to rely on the separatist Bloc Quebecois for support.

The Conservatives, who won a strengthened minority in the October 14 election, say the Liberals and New Democrats are trying to subvert democracy.
I fear for the worst for my country. Dion as PM....
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Old 2008-12-01, 22:28   Link #1055
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Originally Posted by Hari Michiru View Post
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/canad...ent-government

I fear for the worst for my country. Dion as PM....
Dion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harper.
I'm actually more worried about the blocs influence in all of this.
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Old 2008-12-01, 22:35   Link #1056
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Dion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harper.
I'm actually more worried about the blocs influence in all of this.
Anyway Mr Dion would not be PM too long.
And Yes, the Bloc might be finaly make something at Otawa, but we might be prefering THe Bloc to be useless as usual.
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Old 2008-12-01, 22:42   Link #1057
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Bush: I was unprepared for war
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United States (Dec 1, 2008): Looking back on his eight years in the White House, President George W. Bush pinpointed incorrect intelligence that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction as "biggest regret of all the presidency".

"I think I was unprepared for war," Bush told ABC News' Charlie Gibson in an interview airing today (Dec 1) on World News.

"In other words, I didn't campaign and say, 'Please vote for me, I'll be able to handle an attack,'" he said. "In other words, I didn't anticipate war... one of the things about the modern presidency is that the unexpected will happen."

In a wide-ranging TV interview, he declined to say whether he would have decided to invade Iraq if he had known it had no weapons of mass destruction.

Asked about what he regarded as his greatest achievement, Mr Bush said that his administration had fought a war against "ideological thugs".

He also defended his actions over the recent economic crises. "When the history of this period is written, people will realise a lot of the decisions that were made on Wall Street took place over a decade or so," he told ABC.

Mr Bush — whose approval ratings are at an historic low — said he was happy for history to be his judge.

"I will leave the presidency with my head held high," he said.

- ABC NEWS, BBC NEWS
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Old 2008-12-01, 23:40   Link #1058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Short answer why they attacked is "oil fields in south USSR" ... the Germans hoped to get there, grab them and then negotiate a truce if they hadn't finished mopping up Britain. They had an unusually bad winter (mud) - or they quite probably would have succeeded even allowing for the time wasted in the Sealion operation.
Greedy as it was, without enough hatred to blind itself, the Nazi would not attack the Soviet for any economic reason. First of all, Stalin would not negotiate. Secondly, even the Soviet itself was unable to utilize all of its resources in those accursed regions: the infrastructure was beyond horrid, the weather was so damn harsh.Thirdly, due to the first reason, it would be very likely that what they would build could not keep up with what the Soviet would destroy. And finally, there was abosulute ZERO chance for the Nazi to stand up against the Soviet in a prolonged war. Napaleon failed there,yet no body seemed to learn the lesson.

If you ask me, I'd say the Nazi had driven a horrible deal. And honestly, any half witted planner when comparing the size of Germany with that of the Soviet would say "lulz."

As for "news:" Bush never declared war on anybody. How can he say he was "unprepared for war." What war?
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Old 2008-12-01, 23:58   Link #1059
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Originally Posted by SeedFreedom View Post
Dion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harper.
I'm actually more worried about the blocs influence in all of this.
You would prefer to have an idiot be the PM than someone with an Economics degree (or something like that)?

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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Anyway Mr Dion would not be PM too long.
And Yes, the Bloc might be finaly make something at Otawa, but we might be prefering THe Bloc to be useless as usual.
Separatist parties gaining power is not a good thing .
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Old 2008-12-02, 00:11   Link #1060
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All this talk about how Russia was "saved by the winter" is nonsense and is borne from anti-communist sentiment.
The nazis never had a chance to win against the Soviets, unless they bombed every airfield in England and even then they'd end up like napoleon. Also, the reason why Hitler was winning so much in the beginning was because the nations he was attacking were small enough for blitzkrieg to work, and even then they didn't work in the long run because of partisans. For a huge country like the USSR its amazing that the Germans got as far as they did.
Also consider that in 1941 Germany had 3000 tanks sent to attack Russia while the Russians had 12000 in their western regions. The Russians didn't do very well at first because their entire army was undergoing upgrades and training at the time, so their forces weren't organized whereas Germany had the blitzkrieg tactic perfected. The victory had very little to do with snow or ice.

Quote:
As for "news:" Bush never declared war on anybody. How can he say he was "unprepared for war." What war?
Just because war wasn't declared doesn't mean there isn't a war. What's going on in the Middle East at the moment constitutes a war, since different sides are actively fighting each other. It's just not a big war, which is what it seems we reserve the declaration for.

If you still don't like that, we can edit the headline and change it to:
Quote:
Bush: I was unprepared for military conflict
Sounds stupid and totally unnatural. Nah, let's leave it at "war."
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