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Old 2008-12-03, 04:02   Link #121
Tiran86
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BetoJR, as i said about ichigo - there were hints about the other ending just as much if you look carefully. And if the other girl would have won then others would be saying that it was also hinted from the beginning of the show.
True. The way the relationships developed with both characters made it hard to predict, which I thought was one of the story's strengths. It was a lot of fun to read, even if it isn't particually deep.

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Personally I was rooting for Satsuki too
I wanted Tsukasa to win, so I was glad she did. Satsuki would've been great too. Honestly, they're two of my favorite love interests in anime or manga. I'd be quite happy with a girl like either one.

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Of course, it would also be hinted at the other girl's outcome, as she was the one that fit the role of the "promised girl" and "perfect waifu" to a tee. But I, for one, found it extremely interesting that this particular archetype actually lost, this time.
Me too. Plus she was my least favorite of the three, since I'm more of a fan of outgoing characters who actually try and do something with the main character.

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Maybe that's why I like Toradora! so much: even if, on a superficial level, we can label the characters, they are not all that easy to pigeon-hole, once you get past the first impressions.
I don't really mind superficial characters (a lot of people are superficial afterall), as long as they way interact with each other is interesting. The Toradora cast has an amazing chemistry that I haven't seen since Azumanga Daioh.

Ami in particular adds an interesting dynamic to the story. She plays Satsuki's role in a lot of ways, but in other she's nearly the opposite of her. She's absolutely fascinating.
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Old 2008-12-04, 05:09   Link #122
physics223
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Originally Posted by Tiran86 View Post
Ami in particular adds an interesting dynamic to the story. She plays Satsuki's role in a lot of ways, but in other she's nearly the opposite of her. She's absolutely fascinating.
Very well said. She's absolutely fascinating.

I think she'll end up quite like Satsuki, too. She's the first who truly realized that there were more than merely fleeting emotions about Ryuuji, and I think she'll also be the first one to do something about it (as if she hasn't started already).
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Old 2008-12-04, 05:27   Link #123
Tiran86
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Very well said. She's absolutely fascinating.

I think she'll end up quite like Satsuki, too. She's the first who truly realized that there were more than merely fleeting emotions about Ryuuji, and I think she'll also be the first one to do something about it (as if she hasn't started already).
I think so too. Satsuki was incredibly blunt though. Ami's a tease, but she has nothing on Satsuki. If Ami doesn't step it up she'll never get her feelings across, since the fake personality makes it hard for Ryuuji to read her. I don't think she should go to the lengths Satsuki did though, considering Ryuuji flat out bawled like a baby because of Ami's teasing. Junpei just tended to go into panic mode and push the girls away.

At this point though, I'm still wondering how much Ami likes Ryuuji. I think she's still falling for him, but not quite there. She isn't nearly as close to him as Satsuki was to Junpei, and that fake personality of hers makes her a bit hard to read for the viewer, even if we get more insight than Ryuuji does.
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Old 2008-12-04, 13:02   Link #124
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Bleh, not enough sleep, msg deleted.
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Old 2008-12-04, 17:27   Link #125
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Originally Posted by Tiran86 View Post
At this point though, I'm still wondering how much Ami likes Ryuuji. I think she's still falling for him, but not quite there. She isn't nearly as close to him as Satsuki was to Junpei, and that fake personality of hers makes her a bit hard to read for the viewer, even if we get more insight than Ryuuji does.
I said it in the ep 10 disc thread, but she basically did one of those quite confession things you see in anime, so it's clear she harbors a good level of 'like' toward him. At least she has been able to seriously talk to Ryuuji for once and she makes a point about how he feels about Minorin. I don't remember what anime it was, but I remember in it(the anime) that a char said "admiration is the furthest thing from liking someone". Too bad he didn't hear that indirect confession, but oh well. I also like how Ryuuji interpreted that Ami was lonely. She said she didn't see herself that way, but the fact that she isn't able to truly confide in anyone could constitute that she's lonely, like Ryuuji says. Or could she mean that because she, now, has Ryuuji to be herself around, she's no longer lonely?
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Old 2008-12-04, 18:30   Link #126
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On the subject of cowardice in choosing the main heroine in anime adaptations, that's why I really appreciated Shuffle!, despite the fact that it was in some ways kinda formulaic in setup and tropes. Not only could you not determine who the guy would ultimately end up with from the early plot/the first character he bumps into whom he hadn't already met, you couldn't figure it out from the OP or ED, either. (It didn't hurt that Asa was one of the two characters I was rooting for, the other being Sia.) Actually having suspense makes things much more interesting, but Shuffle! and True Tears are about the only series I can think of that actually pulled that off. When you prefer a certain character, but it's blatantly obvious that they're destined to get their heart broken, a show can get to be a bit of a downer.

Which is a roundabout way of saying that I really would like it if JC staff would do something genuinely surprising and have a RyuujiXAmi ending. But I won't hold my breath, because the odds of that happening are much less than 1%.
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Old 2008-12-04, 18:46   Link #127
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Actually since Toradora! is based on a light novel and *not* an date-sim game, it will probably lead where the novel leads... This simply isn't a "choose the girl" story. I'm a bit mystified why people keep comparing series based on light novels to series based on "choose the girl" adventures.

You also might want to view Shuffle! again and watch the first few episodes more closely. Nerine gives it away quite early, along with a few comments and moments from Asa, followed by Asa submarining in quite clearly when that trip/fall into bed happened.
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Old 2008-12-05, 00:15   Link #128
Voitan
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Actually since Toradora! is based on a light novel and *not* an date-sim game, it will probably lead where the novel leads... This simply isn't a "choose the girl" story. I'm a bit mystified why people keep comparing series based on light novels to series based on "choose the girl" adventures.
That's sort of a passive diss on people hoping for something different in the anime.

So, our interest in a unique ending in a different medium (anime) from the light novel automatically downgrades us to Dating Sim fanboys/girls?
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Old 2008-12-05, 00:33   Link #129
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I just really don't understand why one would want an anime adaptation of a novel to deviate from the novel that severely.

Did you watch LOTR hoping that Frodo would decide to team up with Sauron? In date-sim games, all paths are viable and it makes some sense to "root for your favorite character" to some extent (though I prefer it be arrived at in some interestingly written way whatever the outcome).

yeah, I'd love it if Taiga couples up with Ryuuji, I'd also find it fascinating if each one actually gets what they think they want (Minorin, Kitamura). It'd be intriguing to see how an AmixRyuuji played out.

But mostly I want the anime to be an adaptation of the novel - because that's where all the great material comes from.

Last edited by Vexx; 2008-12-05 at 00:51.
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Old 2008-12-05, 01:33   Link #130
Voitan
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I just really don't understand why one would want an anime adaptation of a novel to deviate from the novel that severely.
Marketing standpoint, it makes good money.

But I guess it's really up to people's stance on whether they want to see the same thing play out (albeit in a different medium) or watch an entirely new thing altogether.

A unique experience on one medium will be interesting because it's new.

The GREAT thing about Toradora is that the characters are all great on their own, that I could see the story play out in different ways and each be just as amazing as the original. So if there were different paths explored it wouldn't feel like any of the characters were done a disservice to them.
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Old 2008-12-05, 01:50   Link #131
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I would find "alternate histories" to be interesting --- sometimes I'll come across a doujinshi that equals (or betters) the original mangaka's work. Haven't seen the equivalent in light novels, though with the manga and anime out now - I sure "alternate path" stories are in the works.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:02   Link #132
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I'm following both the novel and the anime for the first time. It'd be extremely interesting to see both play out in different ways watching them at more or less the same time. I suspect the anime is going to vastly outpace the novels being translated though, considering they've already caught up.

I don't really expect Ami or Minori to end up with Ryuuji, nor do I think the anime will deviate from the novels, aside from the changes JC staff needs to do to make the adaptation from novel to anime. I just think its an interesting possibility if it happened, but I'll be happy with whatever turns out as long as the story and characters continue to be as enertaining as they have been up to this point.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:03   Link #133
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Voitan View Post
Marketing standpoint, it makes good money.

But I guess it's really up to people's stance on whether they want to see the same thing play out (albeit in a different medium) or watch an entirely new thing altogether.

A unique experience on one medium will be interesting because it's new.

The GREAT thing about Toradora is that the characters are all great on their own, that I could see the story play out in different ways and each be just as amazing as the original. So if there were different paths explored it wouldn't feel like any of the characters were done a disservice to them.
JC Staff cannot write original material. If they create an anime-original ending it will just be utter failure.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:07   Link #134
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There is that problem... JC Staff does not have a good track record when deviating from the source material. However, these days its more instructive to look at the names on the team and what they've done before. I'll admit ignorance on the director and writing staff and what their resumes look like.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:09   Link #135
Voitan
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JC Staff cannot write original material. If they create an anime-original ending it will just be utter failure.
Again, some people like to see new spin on the material and then there are those who don't.

I'm actually a little bit of both.

But with Toradora, it feels like any outcome is legitimate due to the strength of the characters.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:19   Link #136
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Well we all saw what happened with the filler episode in the beginning where Taiga totally became Louise. So lets just say that JC Staff will not make it totally original based on their own writing skills. Though the team seems pretty good (no ZnT anime scriptwriters or directors) so far, we already had the taste what they do when being left with their own 'creativity' and it didn't look very good.

But...how is the current point of discussion connected with Ami?
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:23   Link #137
Voitan
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Well we all saw what happened with the filler episode in the beginning where Taiga totally became Louise. So lets just say that JC Staff will not make it totally original based on their own writing skills. Though the team seems pretty good (no ZnT anime scriptwriters or directors) so far, we already had the taste what they do when being left with their own 'creativity' and it didn't look very good.

But...how is the current point of discussion connected with Ami?
People are debating the virtue of unique takes on the source material, and being an Ami thread, people are hoping for an Ami end.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:24   Link #138
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None.. .we're offtopic though it went along the track Voitan described ..... back to Ami - she's cuter anyway

The end of ep 10 was full of portent and potential as to whether Ami has conceded the round or the entire match and moves on to a different sort of game (why am I suddenly thinking of Miho in Megatokyo?). And now I lock the novels away so I won't read ahead
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:27   Link #139
Kaisos Erranon
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There is that problem... JC Staff does not have a good track record when deviating from the source material. However, these days its more instructive to look at the names on the team and what they've done before. I'll admit ignorance on the director and writing staff and what their resumes look like.
Director was involved with Honey and Clover.

The person in charge of Series Composition worked on True Tears and Kodomo no Jikan, among other things.

Yay ANN.

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Well we all saw what happened with the filler episode in the beginning where Taiga totally became Louise.
I felt that those episodes were pretty good, considering. Like half of them were from the first book anyway.

Of course, I've avoided ZnT entirely. Probably because I hate Kugimiya's tsunderes.

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People are debating the virtue of unique takes on the source material, and being an Ami thread, people are hoping for an Ami end.
Yay rabid fandom. So much fun. So much fun. Sunshine lollipops and rainbows.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:37   Link #140
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I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with it though, because in any direction, it'd be pretty believable.
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