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Old 2008-12-03, 03:45   Link #41
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
How interesting...

4 political parties taking on one, very fair battle. What happens if the Conservative government collapses on December 8th, but then.. The ultimate coalition loses the following election? I thought the Obama vs McCain election was interesting, but the Canadian one is just as interesting.
If they lose the following election then Dion gets crucified, of that much I'm fairly certain. And it's actually 2 parties taking on the Conservatives with the Bloc Quebecois promising to back the Liberal coalition on all confidence motions for at least 18 months.
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Old 2008-12-03, 13:06   Link #42
SeedFreedom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
If they lose the following election then Dion gets crucified, of that much I'm fairly certain. And it's actually 2 parties taking on the Conservatives with the Bloc Quebecois promising to back the Liberal coalition on all confidence motions for at least 18 months.
Dion has already stated he has no plans to continue to lead this party. He's only going to play caretaker until the Liberals decide who they want to lead.

Personally, im quite mixed on this. While i really like anything that takes the cons out of power, im quite worried about the new power the bloc is going to get.
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Old 2008-12-03, 13:10   Link #43
Shadow Kira01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
If they lose the following election then Dion gets crucified, of that much I'm fairly certain. And it's actually 2 parties taking on the Conservatives with the Bloc Quebecois promising to back the Liberal coalition on all confidence motions for at least 18 months.
Not really. Based on what I just learned, this is mainly related to the planned civil servant salary reduction and also a 3-year freeze on salary raise. As for the Bloc, it is relevant to the Conservative Party's anti-separatism. However, the leader of the Bloc has no intention to run a coalition government alongside the Liberals and the NDP and plans to refuse any purposals. The Green Party on the other hand has been coming up with a list of hypothetical questions and answers as to hoping to get a seat in the coalition government, if the Harper Cabinet collapses.

However, taking into considerations that the Canadian elections was only held a few weeks ago and that the Conservatives won a miniority over a very low voters' turnout rate. The idea of holding an election during the Christmas season would be going against the plans of the voters which can result an even lower voter turnout rate. More over, the ideal over underground deals by the leaders of the political parties may not be the same as members of each respective political faction and also the ideal of the citizens as a whole. Generally, regardless of what each political leader claims and says, the results of the censure motion against the current Canadian government may not go as smoothly as the leaders' wishes.

Nonetheless, I find the Canadian political system to be rather different than the American one or any other country's. Perhaps, this is what people call unique.
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Old 2008-12-03, 23:43   Link #44
Nerroth
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Coming from Ireland, where we have a parliamentary system based on proportional representation (and from the EU as a whole, where we have many other parliamentary systems to compare with, and several federal - or pseudo-federal - countries to look at) I've been hoping for Canada to introduce Irish-style PR-STV at a federal and provincial level for a long time.

Indeed, that last referendum on STV in BC really should have been enough of a Yes (50%+1, anyone?) to pass - but at least there'll be another chance to get it implemented in '09.

If STV, or some other PR system is introduced to Canada, Canadians will be getting pretty used to the idea of governing coalitions - which result when you actually try to have a set of elected representatives which somewhat reflect the popular vote percentages - and back in Ireland, we've been able to wrap our little minds around the concept for some time now.


I didn't expect the idea of coalition governance to happen this way, however...



I will say that not only is coalition governance nothing new in parliamentary democracies out there - including ones that are negotiated after the results are tallied (sometimes parties campaign on a coalition platform in Irish elections, but not always) and in places like Spain, even have to deal with the presence of nationalist parties holding a balance of power in the assembly!


Keeping with Spain, it's even more diverse - instead of just one Bloc Québécois, there is the Basque Nationalist Party on the one hand, and the various Catalan nationalist parties, such as the Esquerra Republicana de Catalunya (which, as you may guess by the name, advocates an independent Catalan republic) on the other.

Having them trying to further their causes in the Cortes in Madrid does not mean the sky is falling, however.

(Ironically, I wish that the Spanish Constitution allowed referenda to be held in places like Catalonia and the Basque Country - so that there could actually be a proper debate and campaign, and vote, between those who believe in independence, and those who favour remaining a part of the Spanish kingdom. Plus, if a fairly-fought referendum went pro-Spain in Euskadi, it would help cut the legs out from under the more militant groups present, or at least deprive them of the kind of standing that the old FLQ only wished they could have stirred in Québec.)


So, while the current events are somewhat... odd, it would be wise for the anglophone media here to stop being so focussed on the United States all the time, and actually take the time and effort to look at the many other parliamentary systems out there - including the Spanish example - and try to see things in a broader, and less bitter, context.
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Old 2008-12-04, 01:34   Link #45
Shadow Kira01
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Don't know much about Irish politics, but Irish Breakfast Tea is great!!!

And on topic..

For some strange reasons, I am starting to find Canadian politics to bear resemblances to Japanese politics. Currently, the ultimate coalition of the Liberals' and the NDPs' alliance with the separatist Bloc seems to be borrowing the Liberal Democratic Party's dovish Fukuda Yasuo's backroom politics, which is pretty much overthrowing the government, taking control of it without the vote and consent of the Canadian citizens. Fukuda style!

At the same time, the Democratic Party of Japan also announced a very recent "super coalition" to force the current prime minister of Japan, Taro Aso to step down on Monday, which is the same exact day as Canada's quadraple coalition launch. Very interesting!

Similarities do occur. While prime minister of Japan Taro Aso is talking Ozawa Ichiro (opposition leader) to a degree of confusion and silence, Canadian prime minister Stephen Harper is doing pretty much the same thing to Stephane Dion (opposition leader). Hmm.. Strange!
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Old 2008-12-04, 13:25   Link #46
SeedFreedom
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Seems Canada will be in lame duck mode for 7 weeks as the GG has granted Harper's request to suspend parliament
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../politics/home
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Old 2008-12-04, 15:38   Link #47
Nerroth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
And on topic..

I was being on-topic.


I'm trying to make the point of comparing the House of Commons to other Western parliamentary systems (and in the case of Ireland, ones which derive a, well, 'common' heritage from the Houses of Parliament in Westminster to that in Ottawa) and how these examples could work for those unsure as to what coalition governance is all about.

And the point about Spain was intended to refer to the situation people are getting worked up over concerning the Bloc - by pointing out that a central parliament being influenced by nationalist parties from various regions is nothing new.


(Although funnily enough, the Catalan nationalists took a pasting in the 2008 election, partly due to splits within the various parties involved...)
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