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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 10 Rating
Perfect 10 39 36.79%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 38 35.85%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 18 16.98%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 6.60%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 2.83%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.94%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-12-05, 01:31   Link #81
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanutbutter003 View Post
It's obvious by now he doesn't fall for Ami's seduction, while maintaining his interest in Minorin, and taking great care of Taiga. Between Minorin and Taiga, if he had to abandon one so as to get the other, who will it be?
"We'd be lonely without each other" is Ryuuji's way of saying Ami's important to him and he to her --- but he doesn't see that as the "special bond". She concedes the round in this ep but not the match.

Right at this moment in ep 10.... I do believe Ryuuji would simply "die with both of them" so as not to have to choose who to save --- or in the daily life filter; simply keep things as they are. He's still going after Minorin but I don't think he's thought through how that will affect Taiga's daily life *now*. Taiga, OTOH, seems to be slowly percolating the idea that she's gotten really used to being with Ryuuji and how that would change. Ep 10 seems to imply that her view of Kitamura took a few damage points as she spent much time in his presence.
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Old 2008-12-05, 01:32   Link #82
KeitaroNagato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voitan View Post
I though, from my dire need to see people respected, feel like people aren't coming to the show, championing their ideal choice, are coming because they're treating the show like a harem anime.

We see Toradora a lot in teen drama shows. There is a tangled web of relationships and multiple love interests in these shows, and they're not something as supposedly disreputable, or percieved to be shallow as, a Harem Anime.

And I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt that they're looking at this show in not some misguided way.
A show that is a harem, I always think of just one one, Love-Hina always comes to mind. This show is way different, and many people think so too. For god sake, its a Character-Driven show, like the West-Wing was. From wikipedia :

Harem is an informal fan term used to describe a trend in Japanese anime or comics wherein a single average male character is surrounded by three or more [1] attractive females, most of whom are romantically interested in the main character.

None have relationship tendency towards Ryuuji, and none go out of their way to do so. It a Romantic comedy, a slice of life, a tsundere and deredere anime. There are no single males, there are two, the females have different perspective based on both.

In the words of Darknemo2000.

from discussion episode 8:

Quote:
She is a tsundere. You don't have to be outspoken to be tsundere. Eriko from Kimikiss also is considered to be tsundere though she is far from being outspoken or loud. She just treats the main character both harsh (tsun) and sweet (dere). It's enough for you to act both dere and tsun to be a tsundere...

However it is also needed that both tsun and dere would be part of the same relationship (with the same person(s)). Since Taiga for majority of time was treating Ryuuji badly (tsun) without giving any dere moments to him she wasn't a real tsundere up to this point. Yet with episode 8 she can be considered a full-blown tsundere.

But because of later popularity of the term now tsundere definition became so wide so that now almost any stronger female character can fall into this definition.
Which says it all, even though its both tsundere and deredere anime.
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Old 2008-12-05, 01:38   Link #83
Voitan
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Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato View Post
None have relationship tendency towards Ryuuji, and none go out of their way to do so. It a Romantic comedy, a slice of life, a tsundere and deredere anime. There are no single males, there are two, the females have different perspective based on both.
I know it's Dawson's Creek.

But hey, holy wow.

I think Ryuuji finally understood Ami was saying something serious for once, but I wonder if he understood it 100% or not.

Because as translated by coalguys, I don't know how much more up front Ami can get to get her point across.

Or Ryuuji did understand 100% and this is the end for Ami's hope.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:15   Link #84
KeitaroNagato
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Originally Posted by Peanutbutter003 View Post
Interesting episode...

Now I really wonder which way Ryuuji's loins are pointing to. It's obvious by now he doesn't fall for Ami's seduction, while maintaining his interest in Minorin, and taking great care of Taiga. Between Minorin and Taiga, if he had to abandon one so as to get the other, who will it be?

In the end, Taiga and Ami were pretty melancholic. I almost feel for Taiga with those sad eyes of her, as everything that had happened were out of her control, and possibly in future as well.

And I was right, the pranks at the end of Ep 9 were by Minorin and Kitamura. An eye for an eye.

Question though: When Minorin was supposely telling everyone she's "afraid" of ghosts, spirits etc and later she confessed she actually liked all these stuff, how does that relate to her beliefs in love and all?

It can't be that she was lying all the while when during Ep 9, she was talking about how she didn't "believe" in love, just like ghosts and all, and the later part about how she didn't have any current interest in anyone at the moment, can she? In other words, she may actually have an interest in someone, it's just that she doesn't want to say it?

Though it's obvious now that she has taken note of Ryuuji. Her development further on will be interesting as well. In fact, the development of all 5 will be very interesting.
It's very interesting how Ami seems more mature as a person at this point, somehow I believe that she is now so into Ryuuji, because she has "fallen" for him. Then again, like Taiga, I have a feeling she will keep that to herself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
"We'd be lonely without each other" is Ryuuji's way of saying Ami's important to him and he to her --- but he doesn't see that as the "special bond". She concedes the round in this ep but not the match.

Right at this moment in ep 10.... I do believe Ryuuji would simply "die with both of them" so as not to have to choose who to save --- or in the daily life filter; simply keep things as they are. He's still going after Minorin but I don't think he's thought through how that will affect Taiga's daily life *now*. Taiga, OTOH, seems to be slowly percolating the idea that she's gotten really used to being with Ryuuji and how that would change. Ep 10 seems to imply that her view of Kitamura took a few damage points as she spent much time in his presence.
During the time she spend with Yuusaku, she was not herself. Looks like she was struggling, I mean really struggling. So out of character, it seems she didnt have fun at all, at the end with all what has happen at the villa, she comes to questions herself, why can she be like that with him. When she with Ryuuji, she her own person that she is, and even Ryuuji accepts her without judgment. Yet, not able for her to be that way with Yuusaku, she is lying to herself and to him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voitan View Post
I know it's Dawson's Creek.

But hey, holy wow.

I think Ryuuji finally understood Ami was saying something serious for once, but I wonder if he understood it 100% or not.

Because as translated by coalguys, I don't know how much more up front Ami can get to get her point across.

Or Ryuuji did understand 100% and this is the end for Ami's hope.
I dont think he truly realized what she was stating, not most of it. The reason is he still think she is being that two-face that he know, but when Minorin what talking to him after the fireworks started, didnt you knowest that sad face Ami had looking towards Ryuuji just before she looked away.



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Old 2008-12-05, 02:20   Link #85
Voitan
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Without a doubt, Ami most certainly still has feelings for Ryuuji, but I wasn't certain if Ryuuji was gently putting down her official offer, and what we saw was Ami giving a last goodbye to her dream guy.

I hope this isn't the end of Ami's teasing mind games. I like it when people have to flex their brain muscle.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:23   Link #86
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Well, it was an O.K episode though, I was expecting more funny stuff.....
In the preview are those guys Taiga's parents?
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:25   Link #87
roan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato View Post
I dont think he truly realized what she was stating, not most of it. The reason is he still think she is being that two-face that he know, but when Minorin what talking to him after the fireworks started, didnt you knowest that sad face Ami had looking towards Ryuuji just before she looked away.



Actually, she was looking at Taiga in the novels. In the anime, it looks like she was looking at both Taiga and Kitamura (or everybody in general) though.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:29   Link #88
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by roan View Post
Actually, she was looking at Taiga in the novels. In the anime, it looks like she was looking at both Taiga and Kitamura (or everybody in general) though.
roan, I left a question for you over at one of the Toradora topics at Baka-Tsuki.

I'd be great if you looked at it, yeah.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:30   Link #89
KeitaroNagato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voitan View Post
Without a doubt, Ami most certainly still has feelings for Ryuuji, but I wasn't certain if Ryuuji was gently putting down her official offer, and what we saw was Ami giving a last goodbye to her dream guy.

I hope this isn't the end of Ami's teasing mind games. I like it when people have to flex their brain muscle.
Its going to be interesting what Ami does now. I really think Taiga has a fight against her, it may not be done by fists, but by affections she has towards Ryuuji. Oh boy, getting interesting, WOW!!! Ami really open doors to herself, she has reborn, and thanks to Ryuuji for that. She now see a better future, with a guy that she "silently" is in love with. I have a feeling now that she knows that, and she is the type of person that will go after what she wants, so in sense, Taiga is truly in her way now. Minorin is not really a threat to her, because she knows, the biggest obstacle in her way is Taiga.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roan View Post
Actually, she was looking at Taiga in the novels. In the anime, it looks like she was looking at both Taiga and Kitamura (or everybody in general) though.
Oh really, strange that she made that sad face though. I wonder what she is thinking.... OH RYUUJI I LOVE YOU!!!! lol
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Last edited by Pellissier; 2008-12-05 at 02:54. Reason: please use the "edit" button instead of double posting
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:33   Link #90
roan
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
roan, I left a question for you over at one of the Toradora topics at Baka-Tsuki.

I'd be great if you looked at it, yeah.

Ok. I'll give you an intelligent answer tomorrow.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:35   Link #91
Kaisos Erranon
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Awesome thanks.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:35   Link #92
Voitan
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Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato View Post
Oh really, strange that she made that sad face though. I would what she is thinking.... OH RYUUJI I LOVE YOU!!!! lol
I know the guys doing the anime are doing Toradora a little bit different from the novel, but from what I read and seen, in a more subtle manner.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:36   Link #93
Vexx
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Stewing over her jealousy of Taiga and how it fits into the madhouse of misdirected emotions this 5+1 group has (I include Sumire as a so-far outside presence distracting Kitamura).
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:43   Link #94
KeitaroNagato
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Stewing over her jealousy of Taiga and how it fits into the madhouse of misdirected emotions this 5+1 group has (I include Sumire as a so-far outside presence distracting Kitamura).
You do agree that Ami has "fallen" for Ryuuji. Dont you think Taiga is the biggest threat towards her now? She is the type of girl that goes through life getting what she wants. It must be hard for her to realized that she love this guy and can't even get close to him the way Taiga is.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:47   Link #95
roan
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Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato View Post
Oh really, strange that she made that sad face though. I wonder what she is thinking.... OH RYUUJI I LOVE YOU!!!! lol
One interpretation of that expression from an anime standpoint, not a novel one:

She's the outsider in the group even though she wants in. Kitamura (he just brushed her off when she asked about the student council) and Minori (she's the sun to her moon) are pretty much wearing masks and avoid dealing with people seriously. Ryuuji's just dense, and Taiga's world seems to revolve around Ryuuji and Minori with the occasional Kitamura.


I could just translate that one little scene later (didn't Baka-Tsuki finish volume 4 yet?), but it does feel like the anime nuance is different so it might not be relevant.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:50   Link #96
ayu
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I don't think that Ami is seriously in love with Ryuuji, contrary to that, I agree with the idea that "she's the outsider in the group even though she wants in", her pretence gives it away too easily.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:51   Link #97
KeitaroNagato
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Originally Posted by roan View Post
One interpretation of that expression from an anime standpoint, not a novel one:

She's the outsider in the group even though she wants in. Kitamura and Minori are pretty much wearing masks and avoid dealing with people seriously. Ryuuji's just dense, and Taiga's world seems to revolve around Ryuuji and Minori with the occasional Kitamura.


I could just translate that one little scene later (didn't Baka-Tsuki finish volume 4 yet?), but it does feel like the anime nuance is different so it might not be relevant.
That's pretty good how you stated it, its also a possibility, maybe she sadden to the fact that she desperately wants to be in that group. After all, they accepted her who she is, and thats what true friends are for.

Unfortunately Baka-t have not finished Volume 4 yet.

edit:
Yet, she is still the type of person that gets wants she wants, she could easily just walk in and accept them as her friends. Possibility, she is truly scare to be accepted, she always getting people to like her as Ami-chan, and having true friends is something she never dream of.
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Old 2008-12-05, 04:57   Link #98
BetoJR
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Loved the episode. 10/10.
Anyone saying that Ryuji is just dense needs to pay closer attention: he's relaxed in the presence of all the girls, right now, even to the point of letting Ami know he'd be there for her, as I understood. The point of the matter is: he's fixated on Minorin. And, unless something drastic - or, at least, more direct - happens to distract him, he'll continue on. So, that's why he didn't really pay much attention to Ami's advances (even if the most telling points always seemed to be muffled by screams or loud noises and stuff).
Kitamura is still a mistery. Althoug, I loved what he did, here.
Minorin looked eerily strange when she was asking Ryuji why he tried to scare her, saying that the Ryuji she knows wouldn't do something like that to someone that would genuinely be scared - her glassy eyes were giving me a distinct School Days-esque vibe.
Ami seems to be trying really hard for Ryuji to notice something about her feelings. However, if they are real or not, up to this point, I dunno. Her sad glance in the end was lovely, btw.

Now, Taiga... sometimes, we get what we want and it turns out to not be exactly how we pictured it. She's getting a taste of that, I think. Worse, she's realizing Ryuji is slipping further away from her. Jeez, the sad puppy eyes she directed at him almost throughout the whole episode are just too much. The ending, then... heartbreaking. Her little running to catch up to him was so lovely, sad and pathetic at the same time, I just couldn't help but feel for her.

God, I wish I could read the rest of the novels already, and see where this goes...
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Old 2008-12-05, 07:23   Link #99
physics223
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Please read and comment on my reflections and analysis of the episode here! It's pretty lengthy, but the episode is so steeped with beauty and meaning that I couldn't speak less.
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Old 2008-12-05, 07:34   Link #100
Liddo-kun
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Episode 10 so good, I love every minute of this episode. 10/10!!

There's a lot of character development between Minori and Ryuuji.
Minori is really smarter than she looks (knows about Ryuuji and Taiga's plan since the last episode). I think when she's asking Ryuuji why he tried to scare her, she already knows Ryuuji's reason. It's just her way of reminind him that she knows that Ryuuji likes her and by saying "continue changing my world" it means one day she'd like him too.

I feel a little pity for Ami on this episode though, it seems she's the only one who doesn't have anyone caring for her. She's trying to attract Ryuuji in her own way but it doesn't seem to have much of an effect when Minori is around.

The only one who's real personality isn't revealed yet is Kitamura, it will probably be on the next episodes.

*can't wait for episode 11
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