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Old 2008-12-05, 00:09   Link #81
chronotrig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peroyasha View Post
There's a loop hole in 即死定義 as it only covers immobility after attack, not when the time of death occurs. It's improperly named, imo - maybe purposely so.
I don't see how that loophole helps you though. If the poison was taken after they entered the closed room, then it counts as a trap. If it was taken before they entered the closed room, they must have been paralyzed, which means that someone else carried them or threw them into the room, in which case they couldn't lock the door with the keys inside.

Since the keys were inside, the only way these closed rooms could have been locked (without some other theory) is by turning the knob manually from the inside. Unless you find a loophole in the 'none of the doors or windows have an autolock', this had to be done by a person.

I still think the real answer is the obvious 'the door from the boiler room to the courtyard was had no lock on it', as it isn't denied by the red or Beatrice's closed room definition in white text. I doubt ep4 will go over the previous chapters in detail, but it might rely on the previous red text.

Last edited by chronotrig; 2008-12-05 at 00:22.
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Old 2008-12-05, 00:26   Link #82
k//eternal
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I keep wondering something about Beato, if she considers herself non-human she could exclude herself from any count of "people", yeah? Even if there's a human Beato running around, under anti-mystery that Beato is the same as the one in the meta world, and she could consequently exclude her.

Similarly, even if the goat heads represent some actual force (I'm actually suspecting that "goat men" may refer to Caucasians or just other people from off the island if some wordplay that applies in Chinese is still valid in Japanese; add the three water droplets sign to the left side of "goat"), she would probably note them as non-human.

Maybe not significant and a little too low, but just bringing it up in case it's a blind spot.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:08   Link #83
nagare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
I don't see how that loophole helps you though. If the poison was taken after they entered the closed room, then it counts as a trap.
Spoiler for a bit of baseless speculation, so I'm putting it in this tag:


Quote:
Originally Posted by k//eternal View Post
I keep wondering something about Beato, if she considers herself non-human she could exclude herself from any count of "people", yeah?
The problem I have with that is if witch =/= human, then furniture =/= human (7 stakes, Ronove, Seista sisters). Beato has stated many times in EP 02, Kinzo's funiture =/= human. Then we have to consider all the unknown members of the Fukuin servants as non-humans as well. It opens up too many possibilities as then it become unknown how many people are on the island. Beato's red text does say less than 19 people, so it's hard to determine if she really does consider the servants to be human in EP 03 >< (I hate you Klashikari ). Until it's determined absolutely impossible for the 18 known people on the island to do something, I think it's better to not seriously consider this. At least I won't.

But yeah, that's been bugging me ever since it was brought earlier.
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Old 2008-12-05, 02:15   Link #84
crazysjd89
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I don't particularly think the "Beatrice believes she nor furniture are humans" logic could work, because using that same logic, "Beatrice believes she is truly doing magic", so she could easily counter everything Battler says with red.
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Old 2008-12-05, 04:18   Link #85
theacefrehley
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I think that if there's a Witch around with a flesh and blood body, we have to consider her as a human being.

But the way the witches are shown to us, they are more like ghosts (the ritual is to REVIVE Beatrice, right?), so I don't think they count as (living) humans (that is, if they really exist, of course).



And this stuff of furniture not being human is a big stretch. It'd only mess the story.
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Old 2008-12-05, 11:56   Link #86
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Ive got something Ive got something...

Spoiler for Golden witch and the name of beatrice:
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Old 2008-12-05, 14:40   Link #87
k//eternal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysjd89 View Post
I don't particularly think the "Beatrice believes she nor furniture are humans" logic could work, because using that same logic, "Beatrice believes she is truly doing magic", so she could easily counter everything Battler says with red.
I think the concept of the red text should be that it involves absolute truths: i.e., things that are true under both anti-fantasy and anti-mystery (as opposed to only things that are true under anti-fantasy, because that doesn't really make sense from her viewpoint).

Consequently, it should be equally invalid for her to say "I am just a human" as "I committed all the murders using magic" in red.

EDIT: To clarify, I don't think Beato can cheat with the red text simply based on her own beliefs, but if the truth value is different between anti-fantasy and anti-mystery, she can only make the statement in white text; she can't ignore one or the other. Basically, don't assume anti-fantasy is the only truth, because that only becomes the case when everything is solved. If something's in red, it applies to both truths.
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Old 2008-12-06, 00:47   Link #88
Sindas
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I've been wondering... what happens if the first person to solve the riddle is Battler?
Wouldn't that force Beatrice to pass the golden witch title to Battler creating a golden "warlock" Battler-Beatrice?

Then what? Battler has to face Battler-Beatrice? Or you can't have two Battlers and Battler-Beatrice fight Ange instead? Kind of confusing... You get a normal new "witch" no matter who solves the riddle except for Battler...

EDIT: Thinking about it wouldn't that be a good way to make Battler submit... If you accept witches you get to be one and then get the power to "fix" everything... a tempting proposition no?

Last edited by Sindas; 2008-12-06 at 06:34.
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Old 2008-12-06, 01:24   Link #89
k//eternal
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Battrice is a hilarious concept and would make an excellent twist, but if he takes that direction with Ep. 4 then I don't think we'll end up with enough information to solve the mystery.
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Old 2008-12-08, 19:13   Link #90
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Spoiler for Joke:
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Old 2008-12-10, 05:30   Link #91
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it would be ironical if Battler would become a "golden warlock" xDD
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Old 2008-12-10, 19:48   Link #92
Nadeor
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Battler would be more likely a 'Golden Grooper'
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Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ep1: Finished
Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ep2: Finished
Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ep3: Finished
Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ep4: Finished

Umineko no Naku Koro ni EP5: ...??

Accumulating 07th point -.-
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Old 2008-12-20, 11:23   Link #93
momobunny
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Comiket is coming closer and closer and still no updates on the main site. I wonder what direction episode 4 will take... I can't believe that in less than 2 weeks the game will finally be out, I can't wait! ^.^
(Even though I can't read Japanese anyway. ^^; )
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Old 2008-12-20, 15:11   Link #94
chronotrig
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Yeah, it's weird that they haven't even posted one in-game picture yet.
All we do know now is that it will be a very different direction, longer than ep3...

And also that it will introduce more new backgrounds and tachi-e's (in-game character pictures) than ep3 did, and ep3 introduced a whole lot.
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Old 2008-12-20, 23:59   Link #95
Kets
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How many tachi-e's did Ep 3 introduce?
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Old 2008-12-21, 01:56   Link #96
chronotrig
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If you count all of them, a whopping 295 tachi-e's were added to the game file between ep2 and ep3 (and 1 keiichi tachi-e was taken out). A great deal of these were never used in the game, like the copies of all of Beato's new ep3 expressions in her ep2 suit outfit, and a lot are just copies with guns added or clothes changes for Eva-Beatrice.

Still, no matter how you count it, it's a huge number.

Oh, and about 60 or so new backgrounds for ep3

Last edited by chronotrig; 2008-12-21 at 02:28. Reason: bg
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Old 2008-12-22, 01:31   Link #97
Sterling01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
Yeah, it's weird that they haven't even posted one in-game picture yet.
Here ya go...
Spoiler for pics:
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Old 2008-12-22, 02:01   Link #98
Jaymer
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New background images o:
I wonder if Ange will be on Rokkenjima this time...
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Old 2008-12-22, 03:57   Link #99
theacefrehley
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Originally Posted by Sterling01 View Post
Here ya go...
Spoiler for pics:
By these images, could it be that Ange will be in the meta world only?

I wish she came to the real world...
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Old 2008-12-22, 05:35   Link #100
hchuang
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of course she's going to be a meta-world-only character. She appearing in the real world in definitive term would mean witches exist.
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