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Old 2008-12-09, 17:30   Link #241
GuidoHunter_Toki
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Again Nola just doesn't seem to bother me as much, however I still wish it to remain the same. Holo just seems like some word I'd imagine as it replacing the word "Holla" and so then you have some guy yelling "Holo".
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Old 2008-12-09, 17:43   Link #242
salv87
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It seems they decided that his name was linked to the german word for "strength/force" than with the english craft as in occupation or skill (whichever definition of craft you want to take)..
but yeah.. but the thing is, there won't be much difference in pronounciation between Craft and Kraft in the dubs.. plus he doesn't use his full name very often..
but constantly hearing Holo.. Oh gosh..
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Old 2008-12-09, 18:04   Link #243
0utf0xZer0
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Well, Holo would be more annoying in the dub... but I'm Canadian. Meaning that "Kraft" is funny for more than just the gratitious German angle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraft_D...opular_culture
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Old 2008-12-09, 18:44   Link #244
PastPrime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salv87 View Post
returning to the topic of Horo/Holo.. although we all know that Horo is the correct version ^_^
For example Kadokawa pics has a different meaning so far..
http://www.kadokawapicturesusa.com/2...spice_wolf.php
So it's Holo for them.. We are also forgetting 1 character that it apperas has the same problem.
The funny thing is that Nora suffers the same fate.. Nola

so It's Holo and Nola.. Now that I think about it.. it makes me laugh for some reason..
I imagined either 5-6 years old saying the names, or rather people without front teeth..

khm sorry for that.. well.. let's hope they change their view on this before further releases.
It's better than having the English name "Alice" spelled phonetically only with an "r" instead of an "l" like I hear happened in "Tweeny Witches"
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Old 2008-12-09, 18:49   Link #245
Vexx
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If an english dub gets stuck with those names, I hope the VAs have enough clue to smudge the pronunciations of Horo and Nora. Good lord, do they not have a single person who has a clue about english names or romaji to talk to????

I can loaf through any random half dozen recent texts on Japanese (especially Kodansha) and its ホロho (kanji) ro (katakana). Also an Ainu word for wolf.

Rant, froth, grumble, bah humbug
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Old 2008-12-09, 19:08   Link #246
salv87
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hmm.. as much as I heard, VA don't have much enthusiam, or I don't know what they lack.. but it doesn't seem that they often think more that it's needed.. well I think that's the case most of the times, we can always hope for an exception ^_^

btw, would the writing for Horo and Holo be the same, but how do you distinguish when it's actually R or L.. Only by the way it sounds (acceptable to the ear or not), or actual analogies in the world right ?
but is there a precice description of where the name came from? I remember there were some discussions somewhere. But was some kind of a consensus reached?
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Old 2008-12-09, 19:39   Link #247
Starburst
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Bit disappointed with the GSC Horo, I sort of hoped for different clothes when I saw that hat, wished that some how they'd work it out. But it resembles the Cospa Horo, though better done, shows off her tail more, gets the head and face a bit better as well.

http://akibahobby.net/2008/12/gsc_ho...or_sample.html
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Old 2008-12-09, 20:29   Link #248
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salv87 View Post
hmm.. as much as I heard, VA don't have much enthusiam, or I don't know what they lack.. but it doesn't seem that they often think more that it's needed.. well I think that's the case most of the times, we can always hope for an exception ^_^

btw, would the writing for Horo and Holo be the same, but how do you distinguish when it's actually R or L.. Only by the way it sounds (acceptable to the ear or not), or actual analogies in the world right ? There is no separate "L" or "R" in japanese phonemes.
but is there a precice description of where the name came from? I remember there were some discussions somewhere. But was some kind of a consensus reached?
Technically, the sound isn't precisely "L" or "R" but something inbetween (L/D/R are in the same family of linguistic sounds). But the modern standard uses the "r" (ra/ri/ru/re/ro) for that family of japanese phonetics.
You should pronounce it the same no matter whether "lo" or "ro" is used but most Westerners tend to hear it closer to the "ro" sound (the tongue moves somewhere between r/d). "Hodo" is even closer in sound than "Holo" though ... Westerners make the "l" far too fat and smooth.

The word "ホロ" means "wolf" in the language of the Ainu (source: my own research into Ainu legends and its use in some Japanese literature).
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Old 2008-12-10, 02:18   Link #249
RayzorFang
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Holo and Nola... i don't know how they will pronounce it when they read the script but i hope it sounds closer to the japanese version. I would have expected them to change the names to Horoh and Norah since they did that for the movie "Jinroh" which stood for the human wolf brigade or something along those lines, and Norah doesn't seem like a rare name in the west.
Yea the sound of the r/l family ra ri ru re ro all have the tongue coming off the top of the mouth to make the sound between r and l so those that haven't learnt or heard a lot of Japancese pronounce certain words differently, a perfect example is 'samurai' that is pronounced as sam-a-rye so that the mu becomes a ma and rai/lai becomes rye.
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Old 2008-12-10, 02:39   Link #250
Vexx
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Mind you I grew up amongst Texans who pronounced Toyota as Tie-o-ta and sukiyaki as sue-kee-yeah-kee (do that in a stretched Texas accent).
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Old 2008-12-10, 04:33   Link #251
salv87
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hmm, I'd like to hear that

anyway, thanks for the pronounciation info.
I wonder if you theory is correct. It sure is plausible, but I guess we won't know until the author explains it himself ^_^
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Old 2008-12-10, 09:58   Link #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
If an english dub gets stuck with those names, I hope the VAs have enough clue to smudge the pronunciations of Horo and Nora. Good lord, do they not have a single person who has a clue about english names or romaji to talk to????
Quote:
Originally Posted by salv87 View Post
hmm.. as much as I heard, VA don't have much enthusiam, or I don't know what they lack.. but it doesn't seem that they often think more that it's needed..
Don't blame American voice actors when a name is pronounced badly in a dub. Most of the time, it's not their fault. Name pronounciations are usually decided by the ADR director, not the voice actors. Several factors go into the ADR director's decision on how to pronounce names including how well all of the cast from the major actors to the small bit players who are only recording for an hour or so for the entire series will be able to pronounce the name. The ADR director seeks consistency in pronounciation from the cast, not necessarily accuracy. A name that is pronounced different ways by different actors is thought to be more annoying to the audience than a name that is pronounced differently from its Japanese version.

(Information came from a Michelle Ruff convention panel where she talked about some mispronounced character names and why they might have been mispronounced.)

However, whether Horo's name is pronounced "Horo" versus "Holo" will likely depend on how the translator chooses to romanize her name because the two versions are equally easy to pronounce when read by most Americans.
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Old 2008-12-10, 10:07   Link #253
salv87
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it's not like we're blaming them, it's more like we're just stating a fact.
Furthermore , I dodn't blame the VA themselves, but rather the industry.

But I guess it's something that each person deciees for himself.
A person who didn't watch the japanese version of SaW, won't have anything to compare to, so the english dub will serve as a basis for him. And he might think that the original japanese voices are bad..
It turns out it's a matter of perspective again.
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Old 2008-12-10, 12:56   Link #254
CrowKenobi
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And it could be the Japanese licensor insisting that the name be pronounced a certain way...

It happen in Gurren Lagann: See-mon instead of Si-mun for "Simon."

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Old 2008-12-10, 16:30   Link #255
RayzorFang
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I try to avoid those changes as much as possible but even though i put dvd's in Jap sometimes subtitles have the changes that were made in the english dub so i actually prefer fan subs even though they're not professionals
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Old 2008-12-10, 20:17   Link #256
Lightly_Toasted
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salv87 View Post
returning to the topic of Horo/Holo.. although we all know that Horo is the correct version ^_^
For example Kadokawa pics has a different meaning so far..
http://www.kadokawapicturesusa.com/2...spice_wolf.php
So it's Holo for them.. We are also forgetting 1 character that it apperas has the same problem.
The funny thing is that Nora suffers the same fate.. Nola

so It's Holo and Nola.. Now that I think about it.. it makes me laugh for some reason..
You can contact them from the site,
SO EVERYONE EMAIL THEM TO ENCOURAGE THEM FOR The RIGHT PRONUNCIATION, OTHERWISE HORO WILL SHOW UP IN HER WOLF FORM AT YOUR HOUSE AND EAT YOU, AND YOU FAMILY, and GO ON AN EPIC JOURNEY WITH YOUR ARCH-RIVAL AND NOT YOU!
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Old 2008-12-10, 22:33   Link #257
Starburst
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GSC Figure's available for pre-order now, at least at Toys Logic. Goes for $68.79.
http://www.toyslogic.com/index.php?m...oducts_id=7329

Anyone find a better price?
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Old 2008-12-10, 23:09   Link #258
Vexx
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Pre-ordered mine from www.hlj.com .... they won't charge me til it ships and there's a fair chance the value of the yen/dollar will have moved in my favor by then.

They were offering a 5% discount off of 7143yen if ordered by Jan 7 - (6786yen).
At today's conversion rate 6786yen = $73.45 (wow, 92 yen/dollar really sucks when it usually marks at 120 yen/dollar).
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Old 2008-12-10, 23:39   Link #259
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I may be late to this party, but for what it's worth, I'm seldom impressed by English VAs, exceptions again being FMA and Bebop.
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Old 2008-12-10, 23:51   Link #260
Vexx
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We were mostly talking about the japanese production staff who apparently didn't do so well in school since they're using "lo" instead of "ro" in the romaji version of ホロ. Even my elderly friends from Japan don't do this (yes, I checked) - and they made the same joke: someone writing it as "lo" must not have paid attention in school.

The only reason VAs were mentioned was because of the concern that the English VAs would be given the wrong guide to pronunciation (I mean, *LISTEN* to the original voice actors and how they say Horo's name in the series. You'd have to be a bit deaf to write that sound as an "L".)
We're just hoping that some of the VAs (who do prowl the forums) see these concerns and act on them if the opportunity arises.
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