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Old 2008-12-23, 07:05   Link #1381
Kitsune
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I was atheist until I discovered my new religion... now I addore the flying spaghetti monster

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
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Old 2008-12-23, 07:31   Link #1382
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Old 2008-12-23, 13:19   Link #1383
OtseisRagnarok
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Originally Posted by Kitsune View Post
I was atheist until I discovered my new religion... now I addore the flying spaghetti monster

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
As much as I desire to be touched by the noodly appendage, I have to say that it's a bit rediculous that people are taking this religion seriously.
Just think, in a few years, Pastafarianism will be as popular and widespread as Scientology. And that will take the place of mormanism.....
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Old 2008-12-23, 20:12   Link #1384
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Originally Posted by OtseisRagnarok View Post
As much as I desire to be touched by the noodly appendage, I have to say that it's a bit rediculous that people are taking this religion seriously.
Just think, in a few years, Pastafarianism will be as popular and widespread as Scientology. And that will take the place of mormanism.....
One could argue that its fundamentally no different than any other religion. Its, while ridiculously funny, a theory of creation.
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Old 2008-12-23, 20:31   Link #1385
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Originally Posted by GuidoHunter_Toki View Post
One could argue that its fundamentally no different than any other religion. Its, while ridiculously funny, a theory of creation.
True enopugh, but aren't there three requirements?
Creation, Morals, and afterlife......
That's how I look at religions, at least.
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Old 2008-12-23, 21:10   Link #1386
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Originally Posted by OtseisRagnarok View Post
True enopugh, but aren't there three requirements?
Creation, Morals, and afterlife......
That's how I look at religions, at least.
Well you don't need an afterlife for something to be a religion as there are plenty that have no beliefs in afterlife. Religion is basically just a set of beliefs concerning the purpose and workings of the universe.
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Old 2008-12-23, 21:23   Link #1387
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I like to think of religion in the nicest possible terms: a system of beliefs that makes you happy, and leads to you treating others well.
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Old 2008-12-23, 21:38   Link #1388
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Originally Posted by Cut-Tongue View Post
I like to think of religion in the nicest possible terms: a system of beliefs that makes you happy, and leads to you treating others well.
While I myself don't have a firm belief in religion I can't argue the fact that it teaches people good morals(in most cases), but there have been plenty of negativity that has come from religion. More so due to the way certain people have used it.
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Old 2008-12-23, 22:25   Link #1389
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Originally Posted by Cut-Tongue View Post
I like to think of religion in the nicest possible terms: a system of beliefs that makes you happy, and leads to you treating others well.
Am I wrong , or some philosophy would become religion with those parameter ?
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Old 2008-12-24, 00:50   Link #1390
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Am I wrong , or some philosophy would become religion with those parameter ?
I tend to look at it vice-versa, but yeah, you're right.
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Old 2008-12-24, 02:37   Link #1391
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I think this is quite interesting, fortunately I don't really believe in pastafarism but what happened if I really had believed on it? "My religion" has been attacked 2 times it's pretty funny to see all those so-called morale defenders and as much tolerant, sincerely, how do you think first christians where seen by the ancient Romans? Just as a group of freaks that joined in catacombs for drinkins Christ blood and eating his flesh (And where I say christians put any other of the actual great religions).

PS: And yepp, I'm atheist (still unfortunately I've been baptized against my will)
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Old 2008-12-24, 10:56   Link #1392
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Originally Posted by Kitsune View Post
"My religion" has been attacked 2 times it's pretty funny to see all those so-called morale defenders and as much tolerant, sincerely, how do you think first christians where seen by the ancient Romans?
The "moral defenders" and religious preachers you're likely to encounter have never been discriminated against, and it's also likely that they've never done self-introspection and thought about how others would perceive their religion. It may seem thoughtless, but acting as if our thoughts and standards are the norm is something that nearly all of us do in our day-to-day lives.

I'm not a fan of the religious preachers, myself, but I can understand them. Imagine if you knew that the world was going to end and/or that judgement would come, but that there was a way for people to be saved. What do you do? Let everyone else flounder? Despite the fact that the religious doctrines more or less dictate that the faithful should disseminate the teachings and save everyone if they are to be considered faithful, I think most of us would simply want to help/save everyone out of instinct ("the goodness of your heart"). How do you do it? How do you tell people that they're doomed or that the world is going to end in such a manner that they'll believe it, and then inform them that there's a certain way that they can be saved?

I don't think you can. Take a look at the debate over global climate change, which is backed by science. Better yet, take a look at research behind cigarettes and lung cancer. Despite factual evidence, some people still deny the data. Those who do accept it still accept their lot and do not make any effort to change things.

It should technically be even more difficult for the religious groups to convert people over... although they don't seem to have any problem with recruiting members. Either way, I respect their desire to better others (assuming that's their real goal). It doesn't stop me from being at least slightly irked every time I have to push away pamphlets, though.
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Old 2008-12-25, 03:08   Link #1393
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I'm a Peter Singer-style Utilitarian.

Or you could say I'm a hella moralistic atheist. I don't believe in god, but I still believe smoking and drinking are a sin (yet fapping to lolicon is perfectly moral).
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Old 2008-12-25, 06:32   Link #1394
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I like to think of religion in the nicest possible terms: a system of beliefs that makes you happy, and leads to you treating others well.
I see religion as a way to instill fear into people--the fear to be smitten by their god if they don't do what he says.

And guess who are the ones who know exactly what the gods say.

Quote:
I don't believe in god, but I still believe smoking and drinking are a sin (yet fapping to lolicon is perfectly moral).
Does not compute. The concept of sin is only valid if there's some sort of divine punishment to it (afterlife in Hell, that sort of stuff). Don't tell me you'd prefer punishing drinkers and smokers by means of the law? What is this, 2000 BC?
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Old 2008-12-25, 13:39   Link #1395
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
I see religion as a way to instill fear into people--the fear to be smitten by their god if they don't do what he says.
I hate posts that say religion instills fear, bla bla.

Religion is simply there because man is mortal and fears death. So we create mystical beings to replace the fear of oblivion.

Religion is actually liberating to the millions of followers, and as you get older, you see more people believing in it. It doesn't get any better. Why, as people get older, should they be more inclined to lean towards religion? The reason is simple: when you're young, it's easy to be atheist. But as you get older, the fear of oblivion far outweights anything so people tend to incorporate 'some' of the belief systems that they choose into their own psyche to deal with the fear of death.

Is there anything wrong with this? Of course not.

The problem is when you have kids who are brainwashed into thinking all they need to read is one book at so-called universities to receive an education. That's my problem with it. Any college that teaches dinosaurs are from 4000 years ago should be extinct themselves.
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Old 2008-12-25, 17:32   Link #1396
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Religion is simply there because man is mortal and fears death. So we create mystical beings to replace the fear of oblivion.
Correction: "You" personally don't create those beings. The society you were born in creates them--different societies created different sorts of beings. But there is something in common amongst all religions throughout the world: There is always a class of people, a portion of society which holds the key to the utmost knowledge, the key to communicate with the gods. Such people were always found in a position of incredible power over their peers--and they are the ones who extend the religious traditions and provide you with these magical beings.

And they still exist today. If I travel to the inner provinces in my country, I can see hundreds of people gathering around local "healers" and "holy men", who take them in for their money, and with the power of autosuggestion they manipulate their followers in believing they actually hold some sort of mystical key missing in the common people.

Which is nothing but bullshit, of course.

And don't even get me started on the Catholic church and the temple to hypocrisy that is the Vatican.

Quote:
Religion is actually liberating to the millions of followers, and as you get older, you see more people believing in it. It doesn't get any better. Why, as people get older, should they be more inclined to lean towards religion? The reason is simple: when you're young, it's easy to be atheist. But as you get older, the fear of oblivion far outweights anything so people tend to incorporate 'some' of the belief systems that they choose into their own psyche to deal with the fear of death.
I don't see how that invalidates my point. Yes, people are stupid, and many people get stupider when they get older (your brain can't think as clearly, etc), but my point is that religion as an institution (that is, whenever you have a person who supposedly holds more knowledge about the gods than the rest of the people) has always existed as a means of power. There's no hidden purpose behind it.

Quote:
Is there anything wrong with this? Of course not.
There's nothing wrong with people believing in magical beings--the problem I have is with those taking advantage of the others' beliefs. Which is what religion has always been.
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Old 2008-12-25, 19:28   Link #1397
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And they still exist today. If I travel to the inner provinces in my country, I can see hundreds of people gathering around local "healers" and "holy men", who take them in for their money, and with the power of autosuggestion they manipulate their followers in believing they actually hold some sort of mystical key missing in the common people.
I can understand, but do you really think that only the (not all) religious people try to manipulate the other ones? Are all those people who are manipulated by the celebrities fashions, the medias, blabla better? The problems linked to atheism are quite recent in comparison with some related to religion, I give you that, but that isn't an excuse. Most of the young people in a lot of western european countries are atheistic, and little by little they will become the majority, if they aren't already. Some of them are violent and extremist. What the world will become if someday those dangerous people go in a crusade to "purify" the world from the religious?

Quote:
And don't even get me started on the Catholic church and the temple to hypocrisy that is the Vatican.
Maybe true, but then again, we live in hypocritical societies and thinking that a person has a full control on its own mind is hypocritical.


Quote:
Yes, people are stupid, and many people get stupider when they get older but my point is that religion as an institution has always existed as a means of power. There's no hidden purpose behind it.
Stupid people are everywhere ya know. And if religion is a means of power, the societies in which we live in is the same. Each people is influenced by many things, persons, insitutions, and all those things out of religion are not all good.

I can't help but wince when I read paper from atheists who act as complete idiot just to prove that they are free to do what they want in comparison with a religious person


Quote:
There's nothing wrong with people believing in magical beings--the problem I have is with those taking advantage of the others' beliefs. Which is what religion has always been.

And there's nothing wrong with people who believe in nothing or other things, but yet a lot of people and insitutions take advantage of those people too. No need for a religion to take advantage of people. There are a lot of people/institutions who take advantage of the stupid people among the atheists' and from time to time use the concept of religion as if it was the root of evil by generalizing.

As I read you, I feel you see the persons who believe in a religion as crazy, not free and close minded. You know my grandmother is catholic and never did something wrong to anyone. She was a good mother, and a good grandmother with us even if we don't share the same fervour to the religion. And don't tell me she is a rarity, many atheists are close minded and can't even see that a lot of religious person are nice and not some sort of dangerous missionaries
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Old 2008-12-25, 19:58   Link #1398
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Does not compute. The concept of sin is only valid if there's some sort of divine punishment to it (afterlife in Hell, that sort of stuff). Don't tell me you'd prefer punishing drinkers and smokers by means of the law? What is this, 2000 BC?
sin
1   /sɪn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sin] Show IPA Pronunciation
noun, verb, sinned, sin⋅ning.
–noun
1. transgression of divine law: the sin of Adam.
2. any act regarded as such a transgression, esp. a willful or deliberate violation of some religious ormoral principle.
3. any reprehensible or regrettable action, behavior, lapse, etc.; great fault or offense: It's a sin to waste time.

(But that's just arguing semantics)

Also, we already punish drinkers of absinthe and smokers of marijuna by means of the law, so I don't see what's so odd about that.

Though just becase you believe something is morally wrong doesn't mean you automatically mean you believe it should be legally wrong. (for example, the many American Christians who consider it a sin to blaspheme the name of the lord, but obviously wouldn't suggest that become actual law.) Of course, my own moral beliefs shouldn't be the single determinant of the law.
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Old 2008-12-25, 20:35   Link #1399
Shii
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Atheist here. I've always thought of making my own religion, Universalology. Just liked the name, Heh.
You're probably thinking of Pantheism. http://www.pantheism.net/

I'm Tenrikyo Buddhist, in case anyone cares.
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Old 2008-12-25, 22:14   Link #1400
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I can understand, but do you really think that only the (not all) religious people try to manipulate the other ones? Are all those people who are manipulated by the celebrities fashions, the medias, blabla better?
??

I said those who are given power within the religious circle (for instance, the whole clerical organization when talking about Christianity) are the ones taking advantage of the rest.

Quote:
Maybe true, but then again, we live in hypocritical societies and thinking that a person has a full control on its own mind is hypocritical.
Oh, rest assured. I'm a social determinist, so I'll be the last person whom you'll hear say otherwise.

However, we cannot exclude the fact that thinking for yourself in many cases leads to atheism (yeah, the illusion of thinking for oneself, yada yada yada--I'm not saying we actually think by ourselves, I'm just saying we have a wider array of tools with which to interpret the world around us). And I believe thinking for oneself is, in general terms, a good thing.

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As I read you, I feel you see the persons who believe in a religion as crazy, not free and close minded.
What? No, not at all. I'm not a preacher. Many of my best friends are religious, many of my coworkers are religious. An important part of my family is either Christian or displays some sort of opposition to religion that has little to do with atheism and more to do with irrational beliefs. I don't make my way through life preaching about how bad religion is. I'd be fucking annoying if I did that.

Still, I believe it to be one of society's biggest hurdles.

Quote:
Also, we already punish drinkers of absinthe and smokers of marijuna by means of the law, so I don't see what's so odd about that.
Well, nothing, it's just that, as a marijuana smoker, I find the idea of being prosecuted as a criminal quite ludicrous, completely unrelated to morality (who the hell is being hurt by me smoking pot?) and more on the grounds of irrational beliefs--thus, on the field of stupid traditions brought forth by religious leaders.
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