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View Poll Results: Who is the ultimate shinobi?
The 1st 24 5.99%
The 2nd 3 0.75%
Sarutobi 117 29.18%
The 4th 119 29.68%
Jiraiya 27 6.73%
Orochimaru 10 2.49%
Tsunde 4 1.00%
Itachi 73 18.20%
Other...[Please State Who] 24 5.99%
Voters: 401. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-05-22, 15:28   Link #41
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander
That joke will never stop being funny as long as there guys like you around who insist on Itachi being scared of Jiraiya.
And don't forget--Jiraiya didn't pursue Itachi and Kisame! Fear. Jiraiya and Tsunade didn't pursue Oro and Kabuto! Fear, again! God, are there no real role-models in the world of Naruto except for Sasuke? Chidoooooooooooooooriiiii~

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander
It amazes me every time cause noone ever says he's scared of Gai even thought the situation is exactly the same.
Actually, they do. They actually do. ^_^;;
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Old 2004-05-22, 15:28   Link #42
hokagenaruto3
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The strongest

Some one mentioned that Jiraiya shouldn't be in the list becasue he had no specialbloodline or secret jutsu...

COME ON!!!
Please remind me my friend which Hokage (strongest person in the village) had an advanced bloodline?
ehhh...
answer:NONE!!!
Strenght depends on 1.talent, 2.genius and/or 3.the amount of chakra you have.
Didn't you hear the 3 ANBU saying that they were absolutely terrified by feeling the chakra of the 3th and orochimaru? Be an Uchiha, be a Hyuga, pick any bloodline you wish, none of them can surpass the conditions mentioned above
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Old 2004-05-22, 15:35   Link #43
Pillage
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is that really that hard to belive? that Itachi, your lover, might be afraid of someone?

And about the Akastuki being mad, when i think of people who must be running that group of crazy killers, i dont think its a bunch of forgiving nice guys who want to understand others. Its probably people like Kisame, Itachi and Zabuza. People with tempers, who dont like failures. So i can safely assume they are pissed.

Its a bad thing Itachi using it so often, cause look what happens? you never know when youll need it, he didnt know if Jiraiya was going to figure out what they did to that girl or not.

Well, maybe he didnt have to kill Sasuke, he coulda just knocked him out.

How would Itachi know Naruto would be alone later on? For all he knew, after the encounter, Jiraiya takes NAruto back the Konoha and has 3 ANBU teams, 2 elite Jounins, and himself watching Naruto 24/7.

And i dont think it was dumb for Itachi and Kisame to run b/c Gai showed up, Gai said he called for back up. so it would be what? 20 vs. 2? thats not dumb, and it wasnt even there mission to fight that worthless battle, it was Naruto.

and when the battle to get Naruto came up, it was 2 vs. 1. Sasuke and Naruto would be useless in the fight, we all know that.
There are actual good reasons why he wouldnt chase after them, what was Jiraiyas GOAL? its was Naruto. So why go after them?
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Old 2004-05-22, 15:37   Link #44
Blitz59
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Ultimate nin..Konahamaru.
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Old 2004-05-22, 15:44   Link #45
Chosen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
And don't forget--Jiraiya didn't pursue Itachi and Kisame! Fear. Jiraiya and Tsunade didn't pursue Oro and Kabuto! Fear, again! God, are there no real role-models in the world of Naruto except for Sasuke? Chidoooooooooooooooriiiii~
If itachi did not bear any fear towards Jiraiya, he would not have said right before they entered the hotel that they might risk their lifes if Jiraiya is with Naruto.

And one quesion. If you had a mission to get a..... statue for example(:P), and that statue was the most important thing for your group/family. And you could get the statue right there, but it were only one man in the way who you did not fear,and you knew that you could not loose against him. Would you run away then ?
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Old 2004-05-22, 16:04   Link #46
Lexander
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There is a big difference between caution and fear. Recognizing someone's strength does not mean you are afraid of them!

And pillage my lover would be Jiraiya not Itachi. I don't like Itachi as a character. So your point was?


The mission was to get Naruto and go, not to get in a huge fight with Jiaiya get hurt in the process. Who knows with all the high level jutsus OTHER jounins would show up just like in the Kakashi fight... "forget stealthy LET'S BATTLE !!! W0000!"


Lets look at this scenario:

There is a room with something you need but there is a guy that will fight you if you try to go in. You know if you fight him you will beat him and get acces to the room ... but ... during the fight you will be badly injured. You also know that at some point the guy will leave to eat dinner so you can go in without all the commotion. So would you be patient and wait ... or would you just charge the guy beat him up but loose an arm or something.

Let's say you choose to be patient and wait for the guy to leave ... does that automatically mean that you are scared of the guy?

If there was no way to avoid a 1v1 match between Itachi and Jiraiya(like 3rd vs Oro) do you honestly think Itachi would try to run or be afraid of Jiraiya?

I don't get this ... does Itachi really come off as a coward to you people?
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Last edited by Lexander; 2004-05-22 at 16:22.
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Old 2004-05-22, 16:16   Link #47
Pillage
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They werent even in Konoha, whos gonna show up? It wasnt even a ninja village.
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Old 2004-05-22, 16:23   Link #48
Lexander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillage
They werent even in Konoha, whos gonna show up? It wasnt even a ninja village.
Hmmm lets see ... Sasuke got there ... what makes you think there isn't Jounins following him there ... OH WAIT there IS Jounins following him there ! Not sure if you noticed ... but the same Gai gets there again ... hmmm yes ... let's wait for more to arrive.

If Sasuke found Itachi the whole Jounin team of Konoha will too don't you think?
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Old 2004-05-22, 16:55   Link #49
raikage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
Youuuuuuuuuuuu bet! You bet! Gosh, why can't Jiraiya be like you and able to read Akatsuki members' mind like that? I dare say you must be one of them to know how they are thinking! So like this other night, me and my colleagues got together. My partner and I were assigned to obtain this material that would be great for our cause but not really needed urgently, but because my team met an unforseen considerable obstacle for something that just wasn't worth fighting for right away, we chose to back off for now. My colleagues were surprised at first but understood because afterall, fighting through this would be taking unnecessary risk that they themselves wouldn't want to do.


This I perfectly agree. ^_^
Naruto's a ninja - in a week he might be dead. And then the Akatsuki would (theoretically) lose their chance to control Kyuubi-chakra forever.

And, IMHO, Itachi is ever so slightly overrated. The reason everyone puts him on top is because of one technique that he claims cannot be countered by anyone except his little brother - a claim which, without logical reasoning behind it, rates equally as a claim of "I cannot be defeated".
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Old 2004-05-22, 17:18   Link #50
avmoghe
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Hm.. overall speaking it has to be the 3rd Hokage in his prime. He was known as the god of all shinobi... if anyone else matched up to him then they would have been given that title.

Second strongest would have to be Orochimaru. He easily defeated the 3rd Hokage (the strongest kage) and his summon during the older years. Yes I say EASILY since the ONLY damage Orochimaru and his own summons received was due to the sealing techinque. Other than the sealing technique...the third didn't even scratch Orochimaru. The third himself was coughing up blood and what not.

Other reasons for Orochimaru - He was the 3rd Hokage's FIRST choice to succeed him (reminder - Hokage is strongest ninja in village). He picked Orochimaru over the 4th hokage, Jiraiya, Tsunade, and any others. The only reason he wasn't picked is because of his twisted ideals. He told Jiraiya to be more like Oro. He is mentioned as a genius that comes along once in decades.

I dont see why the 4th hokage is supposed to be so strong. He sealed the kyubi through one specific technique.... a technique that ends up costing him his life.... That isn't sufficient for me to put him above others.

Jiraiya hasn't impressed me with anything either. All he's done is held off an Itachi who didn't want to have a battle in the middle of the city.

Itachi is a possibility.. very real too. He actually might be stronger than Oro or the 3rd, but I need to see more of him fighting.

So.. for now, its 3rd Hokage until I see what Itachi is capable of.
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Old 2004-05-22, 17:28   Link #51
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raikage
Naruto's a ninja - in a week he might be dead. And then the Akatsuki would (theoretically) lose their chance to control Kyuubi-chakra forever.
I don't understand, then, why the Akatsuki members are not actively monitoring Naruto. Did they simply give up because Jiraiya showed up? Or Itachi screwed up? Or they have so much faith in Naruto? Or faith in Jiraiya's guarding Naruto? I mean, no harm in popping out every now and then to see if the big bad scary Jiraiya is still watching, right? I really don't understand why they don't do a follow-up job if they find Kyuubi to be so important. Unless of course all of them are afraid of Jiraiya...ah, if only Itachi-san hadn't scared Orochimaru-sama away, they might have had a chance, but noooo...now it's hopeless...

Quote:
Originally Posted by raikage
And, IMHO, Itachi is ever so slightly overrated. The reason everyone puts him on top is because of one technique that he claims cannot be countered by anyone except his little brother - a claim which, without logical reasoning behind it, rates equally as a claim of "I cannot be defeated".
Itachi is perhaps "overrated" since he only wiped out the Uchiha Clan; had he not taken forever to eat dinner, he could've had enough time to maybe I don't know wipe out the Hyuga Clan as well? But then again, the Hyugas will forever be considered as nothing but pushovers because they lost to one guy. ^_^;;

As for Tsukiyomi...there might probably be a loophole or something, but since no one has figured it out yet and our dear friend Orochimaru hasn't either, I'd say Itachi gets the benefit of doubt.
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Old 2004-05-22, 17:46   Link #52
Naruto714
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I'd still say the 4th because on various occasions they were like "I wish the 4th was here" Sarutobi said that he was the strongest ever. So my ranking goes:


The 4th - Said to be the strongest ever

Sarutobi - Said to have mastered every jutsu

Itachi - Feared by Oro

Orochimaru - By a slim margin beats Jiraiya

Jiraiya - Has a nice summon and good jutsus [Was doing good against Oro even though he was drugged]

Tsunde - Is wickedly strong and can heal herself plus has a summon

The 1st - Is wickedly strong

The 2nd- Only saw him fight when braing controled
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Old 2004-05-22, 17:49   Link #53
nh1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
Why didn't Itachi just say "oh, it's a TOAD, OH IT'S A TOAAAAD!~" and run away like the lil' coward he is?
and then say something like "Oh, it's a weasel, weasel, weasel, weasel, weasel, weasel, weasel, weasel, weasel, weasel, weasel, weasel...Fermented soybeans and sweets! Fermented soybeans and sweets! Weasel, weasel, weasel ..."

A question: If these are all supposed to be in their primes, shouldn't Naruto, Sasuke, Neji and all of those be on the list as well? Naruto in his prime should kick anyone's ass... Seriously, he should! Stop argueing! HE SHOULD! Oh, you didn't argue..?
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Old 2004-05-22, 18:48   Link #54
snarl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander
Lets look at this scenario:

There is a room with something you need but there is a guy that will fight you if you try to go in. You know if you fight him you will beat him and get acces to the room ... but ... during the fight you will be badly injured. You also know that at some point the guy will leave to eat dinner so you can go in without all the commotion. So would you be patient and wait ... or would you just charge the guy beat him up but loose an arm or something.

Let's say you choose to be patient and wait for the guy to leave ... does that automatically mean that you are scared of the guy?

If there was no way to avoid a 1v1 match between Itachi and Jiraiya(like 3rd vs Oro) do you honestly think Itachi would try to run or be afraid of Jiraiya?

I don't get this ... does Itachi really come off as a coward to you people?
At least finish the scenario:

When the guy leaves for dinner you enter and grab the thing you are after. Then as you turn to leave, the guy is back and blocking your exit. He says he is going to kill you. He then lunges at you. What do you do? You drop the thing you already had in your grasp, and blow a hole in the wall so you can run away.

As for Itachi's killer mange sharingan, as Gai already said all you have to do is look away from his eyes and it won't be able to work on you. I'm sure there are several jutsu out there that can counter it too, whoever decides not to look away... staying behind a summon and out of the sharingan's range could be one way.

For most powerful ninja I'd go for Orochimaru. He wanted a kage body, so he killed one to get it. He's the only ninja we know to have killed not one, but two kages. He can summon kages/giant snakes to do his work for him. It took the godofdeath-sealing technique to stop him, last time that technique had to be used it was against kyuubi. He created the curse seal and has eyes which can freeze a ninja on the spot. He's near impossible to kill too. If you gave him something worth fighting for(if sasuke's sharingan/body was at risk) and Oro went all out with all his jutsu... that's gonna leave a mark.

But the facts say Sarutobi knew all the jutsu in Konoha and was the most powerful in his prime so I'll go with Sarutobi 1vs1, but Oro for larger scale destruction(like destroying a city).
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Old 2004-05-22, 18:51   Link #55
Chosen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nh1
A question: If these are all supposed to be in their primes, shouldn't Naruto, Sasuke, Neji and all of those be on the list as well? Naruto in his prime should kick anyone's ass... Seriously, he should! Stop argueing! HE SHOULD! Oh, you didn't argue..?
Naruto will surely be the strongest Ninja ever, so yes!
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Old 2004-05-22, 19:19   Link #56
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You can't go foward to prime cause it doesn't yet exist only back
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Old 2004-05-22, 19:49   Link #57
Lexander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snarl
At least finish the scenario:

When the guy leaves for dinner you enter and grab the thing you are after. Then as you turn to leave, the guy is back and blocking your exit. He says he is going to kill you. He then lunges at you. What do you do? You drop the thing you already had in your grasp, and blow a hole in the wall so you can run away.
The idea was that Jiraiya won't be around at all. Itachi's meeting with Naruto would be him trying to get into the room and the guardian attacking. Now let's make another case where Naruto is on a mission without one of the legendary 3, maybe alone or with a gaurdian that won't hurt him ... let's say Kakashi ...(this is when Jiraiya goes to get dinner)
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Old 2004-05-22, 20:02   Link #58
raikage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
I don't understand, then, why the Akatsuki members are not actively monitoring Naruto. Did they simply give up because Jiraiya showed up? Or Itachi screwed up? Or they have so much faith in Naruto? Or faith in Jiraiya's guarding Naruto? I mean, no harm in popping out every now and then to see if the big bad scary Jiraiya is still watching, right? I really don't understand why they don't do a follow-up job if they find Kyuubi to be so important. Unless of course all of them are afraid of Jiraiya...ah, if only Itachi-san hadn't scared Orochimaru-sama away, they might have had a chance, but noooo...now it's hopeless...


Itachi is perhaps "overrated" since he only wiped out the Uchiha Clan; had he not taken forever to eat dinner, he could've had enough time to maybe I don't know wipe out the Hyuga Clan as well? But then again, the Hyugas will forever be considered as nothing but pushovers because they lost to one guy. ^_^;;

As for Tsukiyomi...there might probably be a loophole or something, but since no one has figured it out yet and our dear friend Orochimaru hasn't either, I'd say Itachi gets the benefit of doubt.
Well, admittedly the Akatsuki might be monitoring him covertly (hiding in the bushes) - but haven't taken him yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fictional dialogue with Kisame
Jiraiya's nowhere to be seen! We should take him now!
Quote:
Originally Posted by fictional Itachi
Naaaah, he's on a mission to save Sasuke. He's with a team of Genin and Neji might see us with those freaky eyes. Let's try again later.
At this point, it should be mentioned that if Itachi does have a master plan for his little brother, it is possible that he wants Naruto to save Sasuke from Oro's evil tentacle-like grip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fictional Kisame
Great going, numb nuts! Now he's trapped in that earth ball and he's gonna die!
At this point, the team escapes the prison. Chouji fights, while the others pursue. Eventually Naruto is alone pursuing Kimimaro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisame
Let's hurry and get him now...I want some pie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itachi
....nah...Rock Lee is coming!
The Uchiha clan massacre - We don't know if it was an actual battle or if Itachi just surprise-shurikened everybody at once.

The anime chose to show it as an equal fight in which everyone was trying to kill each other, but
I still doubt that the clan would have ever tried to kill Itachi - even to the very end. They would have fought to disable him without permanent injury - like if your best friend (or brother, or sister) gets really drunk and tries to start a fight with you.
The anime didn't show the Uchiha as battle-hardened warriors - quite the opposite, in my view.
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Old 2004-05-22, 20:25   Link #59
DracoBattousai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillage
Ok, if Jiraiya is such a push over for Itachi the Amazing, why didn't he kill him?
No one said Jaraiya was a pushover for Itachi, they said Itachi wasn'r afaraid of him, jesus the guy is a Sennin, of course it would be a challenging fight, but in no way was Itachi afraid. He just DIDN'T NEED to fight him so he didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillage
If Sakura showed up instead of Jiraiya, do you think they would have run?
Dumbest statement in history I believe. Sakura <> Jaraiya..........one hell of a difference, of course he wouldn't have run away, he would have bitch smacked the little brat halfway across the hall and taken Naruto. With Jaraiya he would have had to fight at a disadvantage and chose not to do so and just wait for a better time (with less hassle involved) to take Naruto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillage
How would Itachi know Naruto would be alone later on? For all he knew, after the encounter, Jiraiya takes NAruto back the Konoha and has 3 ANBU teams, 2 elite Jounins, and himself watching Naruto 24/7.
He's most likely gonna wait and see what situation Naruto is in before he just goes and tries to take him, I doubt he's just gonna waltz in the way he did before with Kisame without knowing what type of situation there gonna have to deal with.

Your arguments are mute, all you say is that since Itachi ran from a fight that was unneccasary to begin with, and chose to return when it would be less hassle for him, he's afarid of Jaraiya. So as it has been put, your saying that whenever someone in the series chose or chooses not to stay and fight an un-needed battle, they are afraid of their opponent. Deny that statement all you want but that is exactly what your saying.

As said before, I dislike Itachi, not even on my list of likeable characters, I just think your being dumb and so therefore am telling you as such.
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Old 2004-05-22, 20:27   Link #60
snarl
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The anime showed the almighty Uchiha clan to be only as good as those sand chuunin/jounin who got wiped out by Hiasashi's kaiten from what I saw...
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