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View Poll Results: Is it wrong for a man to strike back at a woman in self-defence to save his life?
Yes. 10 12.82%
No. 68 87.18%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-12-25, 22:15   Link #61
Xaong
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Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
Actually I was trying to address the issue of statistics. If only the woman reports, then it would naturally show that more women are abused.
I don't know the statistics for every countries, but I don't think that the result will be really different by a lot if we could count the men who don't complain. By the way, don't forget that not all the women complain too. We can even still read from time to time that many rapes aren't reported.
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Old 2008-12-25, 22:18   Link #62
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I don't know the statistics for every countries, but I don't think that the result will be really different by a lot if we could count the men who don't complain. By the way, don't forget that not all the women complain too. We can even still read from time to time that many rapes aren't reported.
So we cannot rely on statistics that much.
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Old 2008-12-25, 22:26   Link #63
Xaong
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So we cannot rely on statistics that much.
Statistics should be seen as a tendency, not as a perfect truth. When a company/state does statistics, they normally take in account the possible "lies" or whatever reasons of some people who hide things. Especially on serious subjects like Violence or sexual harrasment. That's why just looking at the numbers is wrong. People should read the texts that come with said numbers. And when there is a big difference between two numbers (maltreated women (1) and maltreated men (2)), you can still see "a tendency" that should be right.
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Old 2008-12-25, 22:39   Link #64
Thingle
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Originally Posted by Xaong View Post
Statistics should be seen as a tendency, not as a perfect truth. When a company/state does statistics, they normally take in account the possible "lies" or whatever reasons of some people who hide things. Especially on serious subjects like Violence or sexual harrasment. That's why just looking at the numbers is wrong. People should read the texts that come with said numbers. And when there is a big difference between two numbers (maltreated women (1) and maltreated men (2)), you can still see "a tendency" that should be right.
Well the only tendency a statistic reveals is how people respond to such cases and who is most likely to surface.
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Old 2008-12-25, 22:45   Link #65
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Originally Posted by Xaong View Post
That isn't what makes me sad, but you're right about the women and men who are "forced" to do things. That type of problems still exists, and it doesn't happen only in the porn industry, and not only about sex...
There are far worse and far more degrading fates than to be raped. To be under the foot of a daughter that sneers daily knowing that she will never even be yelled at, much less righteously struck because she is the favourite grandchild of ageriatric tyrant of a grandmoter whose heart her father dosen't want to break is FAR worse and a thousand-fold worse than being raped.

To see a 60 year old man live his twighlight years thus makes me willing to go to prison to protect my father's honor if she dares to even LIFT a plate in his direction EVER again, woman or not.

Thrice accursed is the name of Virginia Woolfe, creator of militant feminism. May the fires of Hell sear her very-marrow so that her screams can be heard across eternity.
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Old 2008-12-25, 22:47   Link #66
Xaong
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Well the only tendency a statistic reveals is how people respond to such cases and who is most likely to surface.
By thinking like that, you can contest everything, but it isn't like that that things work. Before acting to resolve a problem, you have to estimate it. If some people don't complain, then they are stupid because nothing will change if they refuse to talk. So the state work on resolving the problem of the people who are willing to talk.

But since you seem to be in deny-mode when it comes to statistics, then people can only rely on what they "personally" think Personally, I don't think that there is as much maltreated men as maltreated women. You're free to think otherwise.
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Old 2008-12-25, 22:50   Link #67
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Originally Posted by Ronin Aquila View Post
There are far worse and far more degrading fates than to be raped. To be under the foot of a daughter that sneers daily knowing that she will never even be yelled at, much less righteously struck because she is the favourite grandchild of ageriatric tyrant of a grandmoter whose heart her father dosen't want to break is FAR worse and a thousand-fold worse than being raped.

To see a 60 year old man live his twighlight years thus makes me willing to go to prison to protect my father's honor if she dares to even LIFT a plate in his direction EVER again, woman or not.
You can't take one case to estimate a problem. I am sorry for the man you are talking about, but he isn't the representation of the problem in general. I don't say it isn't terrible, but problems like this one are not the majority.
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Old 2008-12-25, 22:52   Link #68
Thingle
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By thinking like that, you can contest everything, but it isn't like that that things work. Before acting to resolve a problem, you have to estimate it. If some people don't complain, then they are stupid because nothing will change if they refuse to talk. So the state work on resolving the problem of the people who are willing to talk.
1. it's their problem.
2. A questionable estimate is no good.
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Old 2008-12-25, 22:56   Link #69
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1. it's their problem.
2. A questionable estimate is no good.
1. A state isn't your mom, and doesn't have the right to force you to talk.
2. Well, on one side we have numbers collected seriously, on the other side we have people who claim wrong numbers without any serious basis. And that doesn't change what I said in the part of my post that you greatly avoided
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Old 2008-12-25, 23:00   Link #70
Thingle
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1. A state isn't your mom, and doesn't have the right to force you to talk.
2. Well, on one side we have numbers collected seriously, on the other side we have people who claim wrong numbers without any serious basis. And that doesn't change what I said in the part of my post that you greatly avoided
1. That's what I meant. The same as yours.
2. The method may be serious, but if its basis is fundamentally flawed, it doesnt matter.
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Old 2008-12-25, 23:14   Link #71
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1. That's what I meant. The same as yours.
2. The method may be serious, but if its basis is fundamentally flawed, it doesnt matter.
1. I thought you were saying it was the problem of "the state". Sorry
2. Don't feel insulted, but it's still better than talking and bitching without any basis. In the other case, it's only some talks on the fly and that won't resolve anything for sure. I prefer seeing people who try seriously to resolve a problem, rather than people who are twiddling their thumbs while denying things.
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Old 2008-12-25, 23:22   Link #72
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Can I ask how insisting on curing a misdiagnosis is better than not attempting a cure at all?

Does it stroke enough balls at the expense of the real situation?
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Old 2008-12-25, 23:26   Link #73
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Can I ask how insisting on curing a misdiagnosis is better than not attempting a cure at all?

Does it stroke enough balls at the expense of the real situation?
What basis do you have for claiming a misdiagnosis? I don't know about "what" kind of violence and problems you're talking about specifically, but if you even deny the statistics of rapes then I won't waste my time to reply again So be clear
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Old 2008-12-25, 23:28   Link #74
Thingle
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What basis do you have for claiming a misdiagnosis? I don't know about "what" kind of violence and problems you're talking about specifically, but if you even deny the statistics of rapes then I won't waste my time to reply again So be clear
No, when the basis of your statistics is flawed, you don't get a clear picture of who abuses who.. especially when there is misrepresentation one cannot simply correct on his own.

Now that you know that the outcome of such statistic is not at all reflective of the situation, why insist on tackling it as if it were the real problem? Isn't it a waste of effort?
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Old 2008-12-25, 23:35   Link #75
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No, when the basis of your statistics is flawed, you don't get a clear picture of who abuses who.. especially when there is misrepresentation one cannot simply correct on his own.

Now that you know that the outcome of such statistic is not at all reflective of the situation, why insist on tackling it as if it were the real problem? Isn't it a waste of effort?
That's why a person is stated innocent before the police collects proofs of a mistreatment.

The statistics, complete or not, prove that there are some problems that need to be resolved. If there were none, then no one would complain. If the women lie (which I doubt for the majority), then there is still a problem who needs to be resolved. So claiming that everything's right is wrong in any case.

And you still claim misdiagnosis without any basis
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Old 2008-12-25, 23:38   Link #76
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As I see it, the real problem is the unwillingness of a part of society to surface. If there is misrepresentation ,then the challenge is to get the abused males to overcome cultural aversions and speak up.
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Old 2008-12-25, 23:49   Link #77
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As I see it, the real problem is the unwillingness of a part of society to surface. If there is misrepresentation ,then the challenge is to get the abused males to overcome cultural aversions and speak up.
Don't mix things. They are two cases/problems that need to be resolved:

1. To help the people who complain. This problem exists. Denying statistics, do it all you want even without any basis if you find that amusing , but denying the justice of each country that try to resolves the existing cases of abused people goes too far for me.

2. To help the other abused people (men or women) to overcome their fear and talk about it. That's another problem.

As I read you, since some men are abused and not reported, we should not try to resolve the other problems The misunterpretation, IF there is one, doesn't concern the majority of the other problems of people who complained. You could wait eternally before getting the perfect interpretation if you wait for that to act
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Old 2008-12-25, 23:55   Link #78
Thingle
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Don't mix things. They are two cases/problems that need to be resolved:

1. To help the people who complain. This problem exists. Denying statistics, do it all you want even without any basis if you find that amusing , but denying the justice of each country that try to resolves the existing cases of abused people goes too far for me.


Then treat it in a case-to-case basis... Or better yet get rid of statistics and concentrate on individual cases.

Statistics tend to create superficial pictures of a particular society. It only records the number of complaints and the kind of complainants, but very rarely do they deal with the deeper details of each individual complaint.

As we both mentioned, it's their problem. No one is forcing this cure to them.
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Old 2008-12-25, 23:59   Link #79
relentlessflame
 
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I think we need to close this thread, because this topic is way too loaded. All this thread is really asking is "do you discriminate on the basis of gender?"

The Original Poster has a very specific personal issue in his family that is absolutely tragic, and this isn't something we can discuss like it's up for debate. If you, or anyone you know, is the victim of abuse, call the police. There is no justifiable reason for abuse, or any justifiable reason to take that sort of abuse from others. If you allow yourself to become the victim of abuse under any pretense (even some twisted idea of political correctness), that's not right. This applies to women and men equally.

So, thread closed. If anyone feels strongly that this thread should not be closed because there is significant further value to discussing this matter further, please feel free to send me a message via PM.
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